You should fast !

[georgegeorgia]

Lately I have had liver pain ,62yo male 115kg go to gym everyday and lift weights 

 

So went to GP ,they done a ultrasound said fatty liver ,nothing we can do ,you need to lose weight .

 

So anyway I used to drink a ton of protein drinks everyday  and stopped .

 

My liver still has a dull pain ,the GP wants to wait a month to see if there is any improvement if I get down to 100kg so basically she's useless although she says a Fibro scan of the liver will be next if no improvement 

 

Ok let me get to the point , today I went to a indian naturopath basically he told me I must starve the liver of glucose and insulin,I must do this a few times a week for 72 hours ...fasting !!!

 

After 14 hours no eating I will lose the glycogen out of my liver 

 

To cut a long story short who benefits here by fasting ?

 

How long have you done it ,72 hours seems a long time 

 

I forgot to ask if I can chew gum ?

 

 

[soi3eddie]

Liver pain? Really? 

I'm overweight. Was 95kgs. Now down to 91.5kgs in last week. No food for 20 hours then light meal. Lots of water. 

Coffee (no milk or sugar) in the morning at 8am. Work. Swim 1pm. First food of yoghurt and fruit 2:30pm. Dinner (either salad or Som Tam, Gai Yang) at 6:30pm. Feel miserable in mind from 11am until eating but body more healthy and weight going down. Can't imagine no food for 72 hours. Good luck!

 

Edited March 23, 2023 by soi3eddie

[Lemsta69]

I've done intermittent fasting, ie. water only a couple of times last year. 

 

First time for 24 hours and the second time a week later for 72 hours. 

 

I lost a lot of weight and felt much better. 24 hours was a doddle but it was a real struggle to get through the long stretch on the 2nd go. Headaches, lethargy, nausea and I probably only got through it because I'm retired and don't have to slog it out at work like you do.

 

I haven't done a long fast since because after the first one I read a bunch of posts on Reddit and they reckon you're supposed to drink an electrolyte mixture slowly over the three days and I just never got around to attempt sourcing the stuff here in Thailand.

 

I'm no expert but I reckon that chewing gum is a no no because it likely contains sugar.

[georgegeorgia]

What are you saying ?

You think my liver pain could be something else ?

 

The woman GP is probably as old as me said the pain was probably a inflammation of the liver !

 

I will try another doctor and maybe get another ultrasound from another clinic , I don't even drink alcohol, 

Edited March 23, 2023 by georgegeorgia

[georgegeorgia]

4 minutes ago, Lemsta69 said:

I've done intermittent fasting, ie. water only a couple of times last year. 

 

First time for 24 hours and the second time a week later for 72 hours. 

 

I lost a lot of weight and felt much better. 24 hours was a doddle but it was a real struggle to get through the long stretch on the 2nd go. Headaches, lethargy, nausea and I probably only got through it because I'm retired and don't have to slog it out at work like you do.

 

I haven't done a long fast since because after the first one I read a bunch of posts on Reddit and they reckon you're supposed to drink an electrolyte mixture slowly over the three days and I just never got around to attempt sourcing the stuff here in Thailand.

 

I'm no expert but I reckon that chewing gum is a no no because it likely contains sugar.

Yes , although I think there is sugar free gum 

Good point about the electrolyte, does anyone know if Gatorade is ok ?

[soi3eddie]

5 minutes ago, georgegeorgia said:

What are you saying ?

You think my liver pain could be something else ?

 

I will try another doctor and maybe get another ultrasound from another clinic 

Until I just looked it up I wasn't aware that liver could give obvious pain. Your naturopath's advice of "fasting for 72 hours a few times a week" could mean not eating at all f.f.s!

Maybe @Sheryl has some advice.

 

[asf6]

Electrolyte drinks are easy to source in Thailand. You can get them in pharmacies and the 7 eleven (usually near the counter next to the condoms). There are different types - one sports type to take after exercise and one aimed at people who have vomitted or had diarrhea. The main ingredients are the same (potassium and sodium) but the sports style drink has more sugar in it. Just mix with water. Cost between 4 baht and 7 baht per sachet, depending on size, brand, etc. 

Edited March 23, 2023 by asf6

[Lemsta69]

3 minutes ago, georgegeorgia said:

Yes , although I think there is sugar free gum 

Good point about the electrolyte, does anyone know if Gatorade is ok ?

Gatorade is mostly sugar so probably not a great idea. The guys on Reddit were talking about buying two ingredients from their local pharmacy and mixing it in specific quantities and adding to water. 

 

Having said that, their aim was to achieve a state called ketosis which means that the body burns far instead of glucose. This is for maximum effect from the fast.

 

If your aim is to just give your liver a rest for a bit then maybe something like Hydralyte would be OK. It's what Aussie doctors tell my dear old Mum to get when she's got the gastro.

[Lemsta69]

3 minutes ago, soi3eddie said:

could mean not eating at all f.f.s!

That's right! I did it once and it was a struggle but I felt great afterwards. 

[Lemsta69]

18 minutes ago, georgegeorgia said:

I don't even drink alcohol

There's a condition called non-alcoholic fatty liver. I got diagnosed with it a few years ago after I'd been gorging on pizza, KFC and Lebanese charcoal chicken and chips ????????????

[still kicking]

2 minutes ago, Lemsta69 said:

That's right! I did it once and it was a struggle but I felt great afterwards. 

I am 75 and don't eat a lot just some fruit in the morning when I get up, no lunch at all and just a small dinner, I had a fatty liver for many years, don't eat junk food or drink soft drinks not a lot of alcohol just some red wine at night so there you go.

[georgegeorgia]

20 minutes ago, still kicking said:

I am 75 and don't eat a lot just some fruit in the morning when I get up, no lunch at all and just a small dinner, I had a fatty liver for many years, don't eat junk food or drink soft drinks not a lot of alcohol just some red wine at night so there you go.

You don't lose energy during the day ?

[MrJ2U]

1 hour ago, soi3eddie said:

Can't imagine no food for 72 hours.

Thats probably not healthy at 62. 

 

Your diet sounds difficult enough. 

[still kicking]

5 minutes ago, georgegeorgia said:

You don't lose energy during the day ?

No, don't go out a lot anymore, still do my own housekeeping, shopping still drive my old car and yes, travel twice a year to Thailand as well I just have a phobia, about steps since I had 2 broken ankles. As i mentioned I am 75 turning 76 shortly I am nearly 6-foot weigh about 82 KG and people call me fat.

[ozimoron]

I'm no expert but was diagnosed with fatty liver syndrome a couple of years ago. I had assumed it was because I ate too much fatty food but since discovered it's all about sugar. I used to be a huge milk drinker but discovered that milk contains a lot of sugar after digestion.

 

Now I fast most days for 16 to 60 hours, average 18 hours, water only or black coffee. I used to urinate many times a day but now can drink several beers occasionally without urination. Basically, I knew where every public urinal was in Pattaya. The hardest part was learning to like coffee but now it's not too bad as long as the coffee is decent. I sometimes drink cappuccino in starbucks with almond or soy milk. I don't touch dairy anymore. Dairy is also implicated in prostate BPH.

 

I also lift weights in the gym most days for an hour or so, trying to up my aerobic exercise more. I go to the gym before eating, towards the end of my fast. At 68, I'm not into body building, just want the HiiT training. I joined the gym a couple of months ago, best investment ever. I never was any kind of gym rat, only walked a lot which was just not enough. 

 

I've cleaned up my diet a lot, no more red meat, mostly miditerranean diet. I do eat fruit still but try to limit it. I used to eat a lot of white rice but now very little. Also very little bread except for some whole grain, about a loaf a month. The only place I have found it is in tops supermarket in central festival mall in Pattaya but it's only there occasionally.  

 

I now weigh 71 Kg, down from 73 a few months ago, 173 cm tall. My pot gut hasn't discernably reduced at all. 

Edited March 23, 2023 by ozimoron

[Lacessit]

Medical opinion is divided on the health benefits of fasting. As it is on keto dieting.

 

I have never fasted. I reduced my body mass from 93 kg to 78 kg over about 6 months. Alcohol one drink a week, no sugar.  I substituted low carb vegetables such as cauliflower, green beans, broccoli, bamboo and cabbage for rice, potatoes and pasta. Once slice of toast in the morning, eggs for breakfast every day. Yoghurt with no added sugar.

 

The only processed food I eat in any quantity is cheese. IMO it's a matter of training one's liver to metabolize fat, by reducing sugar and carbohydrate intake.

 

The gold standard for diagnosis of anything more sinister going on in the OP's liver is a PET scan, with contrast of radioactive sugar, as the uptake rate of cancer cells is faster than for healthy cells. The cheapest quote I could find in Thailand for a PET scan was USD 15,000.

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Medical opinion is divided on the health benefits of fasting. As it is on keto dieting.

 

I have never fasted. I reduced my body mass from 93 kg to 78 kg over about 6 months. Alcohol one drink a week, no sugar.  I substituted low carb vegetables such as cauliflower, green beans, broccoli, bamboo and cabbage for rice, potatoes and pasta. Once slice of toast in the morning, eggs for breakfast every day. Yoghurt with no added sugar.

 

The only processed food I eat in any quantity is cheese. IMO it's a matter of training one's liver to metabolize fat, by reducing sugar and carbohydrate intake.

 

The gold standard for diagnosis of anything more sinister going on in the OP's liver is a PET scan, with contrast of radioactive sugar, as the uptake rate of cancer cells is faster than for healthy cells. The cheapest quote I could find in Thailand for a PET scan was USD 15,000.

Not any more, IF is now mainstream.

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-09-22/whats-this-longevity-diet-will-make-you-live-longer/101463260

[Lacessit]

9 minutes ago, still kicking said:

No, don't go out a lot anymore, still do my own housekeeping, shopping still drive my old car and yes, travel twice a year to Thailand as well I just have a phobia, about steps since I had 2 broken ankles. As i mentioned I am 75 turning 76 shortly I am nearly 6-foot weigh about 82 KG and people call me fat.

If you can get another 4-5 kg off, you will have a normal range BMI. Swimming and an exercise bike will take care of the broken ankles for cardio fitness.

[still kicking]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

If you can get another 4-5 kg off, you will have a normal range BMI. Swimming and an exercise bike will take care of the broken ankles for cardio fitness.

I have an exercise bike which I use every day but don't like swimming 

[Lacessit]

3 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Not any more, IF is now mainstream.

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-09-22/whats-this-longevity-diet-will-make-you-live-longer/101463260

I developed my diet independently after observing dozens of YouTube videos.

I eat cheese and avocado, both of which were banned by my GP in Australia.

It's nice to know my thinking is confirmed by experts.

I am 79.

[ozimoron]

Just now, Lacessit said:

I developed my diet independently after observing dozens of YouTube videos.

I eat cheese and avocado, both of which were banned by my GP in Australia.

It's nice to know my thinking is confirmed by experts.

I am 79.

Avo definitely, pity it's usually expensive in Thailand, dirt cheap in oz. The jury seems to be out about the cheese. I have seen various claims on YT that dairy is bad for prostate enlargement. While YT is not a credible source, it's enough for me to stop eating it. Anything in dairy can be replaced with plant based nutrition. Zinc is the main area of concern for vegans. 

[mstevens]

NAFLD is very common these days. While I am sure fasting helps, it's not for everyone. I'd suggest that you lose weight and amend your diet to include LOTS of cruciferous vegetables (broccoli, cabbage, cauliflower, brussel sprouts, bok choy and more) which are the best thing for your liver. Eliminate fast food, sugar and excess carbs. That will all go a long way to resolving a fatty liver. It can take a period of time i.e. a year or two, depending on how fatty the liver is.

Edited March 23, 2023 by mstevens

[save the frogs]

In my opinion, fasting for several days is unnecessary.

 

Not only unnecessary, but you lose muscle mass as you have no protein coming in for those 72 hours.

 

In my opinion, the only Intermittent Fasting necessary is cutting down the eating window on a daily basis.

 

Ie maybe try not to eat past 5 pm in the evening. If you eat breakfast at 8 am, well do the math and that's your daily IF. 

 

And that's good enough.

 

Eat at home as much as possible. Restaurants use unhealthy cooking oils. 

 

 

[Lacessit]

4 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Avo definitely, pity it's usually expensive in Thailand, dirt cheap in oz. The jury seems to be out about the cheese. I have seen various claims on YT that dairy is bad for prostate enlargement. While YT is not a credible source, it's enough for me to stop eating it. Anything in dairy can be replaced with plant based nutrition. Zinc is the main area of concern for vegans. 

Too late for me, I am on finasteride to control BPH, which it seems to do. Maybe a TURP next year.

Avocados are cheap in OZ? Not in Melbourne, 60 baht a kilo in Chiang Rai.

Edited March 23, 2023 by Lacessit

[Lacessit]

4 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Avo definitely, pity it's usually expensive in Thailand, dirt cheap in oz. The jury seems to be out about the cheese. I have seen various claims on YT that dairy is bad for prostate enlargement. While YT is not a credible source, it's enough for me to stop eating it. Anything in dairy can be replaced with plant based nutrition. Zinc is the main area of concern for vegans. 

Too late for me, I am on finasteride to control BPH, which it seems to do. Maybe a TURP next year.

[Lacessit]

45 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

In my opinion, fasting for several days is unnecessary.

 

Not only unnecessary, but you lose muscle mass as you have no protein coming in for those 72 hours.

 

In my opinion, the only Intermittent Fasting necessary is cutting down the eating window on a daily basis.

 

Ie maybe try not to eat past 5 pm in the evening. If you eat breakfast at 8 am, well do the math and that's your daily IF. 

 

And that's good enough.

 

Eat at home as much as possible. Restaurants use unhealthy cooking oils. 

 

 

I eat at home about 85% of the time. Cook everything by steaming, air frying, or boiling. A side benefit: boiling and steaming require almost no cleaning of pots and pans afterwards.

[Cricky]

6 hours ago, georgegeorgia said:

To cut a long story short who benefits

YOU. 

 

Give it a go, you got nothing to lose, only gain....your health. 

 

 

[scubascuba3]

If people didn't let themselves get so overweight they wouldn't need one of these starvation diets. Monitor your weight once a month or two and see if going up or down and work out why. If i go up even a half kilo i know it's due to eating a bit more junk chocolate, pastries, ice cream, maybe even more alcohol than usual

[Henk Langeweg]

Do you know about Milk Thistle? Look it up, very good for the Liver it seems ..

[RT555]

I do an 18/6 intermittent fast 1 week a month, a must if you indulge occasionally.