45 day visa waiver finished, back to 30 days on arrival

[Salerno]

5 minutes ago, Langsuan Man said:

How is Immigration surprise change in the rules a sign of my incompetence?

There was no surprise change, when implemented they stated until 31 March, big "surprise", ended 31 March.

 

6 minutes ago, Langsuan Man said:

I dispute your characterization that the change was always known to occur on the 31st.   When last I read in the English paper, we are not allowed to quote,  they were still considering it and most expected the change to occur in July.  And we are talking while on a trip over a weekend,  not a couple of days prior to my scheduled flight as you intimate

Dispute it as much as you like. The facts are clear. Having been visiting for close to 20 years I am sure you are more than aware to take anything in any Thai (or any other) media with a large pinch of salt - until something is officially announced, plan to the reality.

 

I did not "intimate" your border hop was a couple of days prior to your scheduled departure, why on earth would I, your potential overstay would be impossible if that was the case. I clearly stated that, based on what you had said, you are now in the situation you find yourself i.e. you will be a couple of days overstay if you don't rectify the issue by the time of your scheduled departure due to your poor planning and only receiving 30 days visa exempt.

 

Given your travel plans and method of entry anyone with a modicum of common sense would have ensured their border hop return would be on the 31st or earlier thereby obtaining the necessary length of entry permission and not end up in your current predicament.

 

19 minutes ago, Langsuan Man said:

Finally, my veracity has never been challenged on this forum so I don't much care whether you believe me  or not.  Truth be told your aggressive response to my contribution to the discussion is evidence that you missed the whole point of my response. It's the constantly changing of the rules that is a problem for continued tourism 

Glad I could introduce you to something new. I certainly didn't miss the point of your post because other than whinging, with the all too often nowadays, lack of personal responsibility there is no point. If you think a few people getting pissed off at the "constantly changing of the rules" will make a dent in Thai tourism arrivals you are delusional. They may get rid of a handful of bitter old expats/snowbirds though, I'll grant you that.

[JimmyJ]

Terrible decision.

 

Thailand was bouncing back with Tourism by easing entry and length of stay.

Vietnam tightened to a 30 day non-extendable Visa and their tourism was doing a very poor recovery.

 

So Thailand tightens up.

"If it ain't broke  - let's break it".

This in the midst of worldwide negative pr due to their unhealthy air.

Meanwhile Vietnam is now considering loosening up and offering a 90 Day Tourist Visa.

 

What did Thailand gain by tightening up?

 

 

 

Edited April 3, 2023 by JimmyJ

[Sheryl]

Does anyone happen to know what has happened with visa exempt entries from neighboring ASEAN countries under  bilateral agreement? Is ti back to just 14 days?

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, Langsuan Man said:

How is Immigration surprise change in the rules a sign of my incompetence?

 

I dispute your characterization that the change was always known to occur on the 31st.   When last I read in the English paper, we are not allowed to quote,  they were still considering it and most expected the change to occur in July.  And we are talking while on a trip over a weekend,  not a couple of days prior to my scheduled flight as you intimate

 

Finally, my veracity has never been challenged on this forum so I don't much care whether you believe me  or not.  Truth be told your aggressive response to my contribution to the discussion is evidence that you missed the whole point of my response. It's the constantly changing of the rules that is a problem for continued tourism 

I sympathise with your experience, and would never accuse you of stupidity for failing to know the visa exempt permission to stay was reverting to normal. That said, you were arguably careless. It is the fact that it was easy to be aware that the 45-day visa exemption was temporary. The last official announcement said that it would end at 23:59 on March 31st. No official announcement to the contrary was ever issued. Assuming that it would be extended because of media reports that some advocated this, in my view, was most unwise. It smacks of wishful thinking. Actually, if you had checked this forum in the last couple of weeks before your trip you would be aware that experienced observers did not expect the temporary 45-day visa exemption to be retained.

[BritTim]

7 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Does anyone happen to know what has happened with visa exempt entries from neighboring ASEAN countries under  bilateral agreement? Is ti back to just 14 days?

As far as I know, all the temporary changes that were slated to revert after March 31st have done so.

[paul1804]

On 4/1/2023 at 2:47 PM, Operator2002 said:

Yes, ordinary tour-package tourists don't come for 1 month and more - but long stay people who can afford it, - do! 

And they spend minimum 20 000 baht per month: they rent property, they eat food, they shop - which is good for Thai economy and just better than nothing anyway. 

That's a rather silly idea, many tourists come for much longer than 14 days and quite a a lot will spend  some months here so all this 30 day visa does is create more hassles and paper work for the authorities and an inconvenience for the tourists!!

[ThailandRyan]

1 minute ago, paul1804 said:

That's a rather silly idea, many tourists come for much longer than 14 days and quite a a lot will spend  some months here so all this 30 day visa does is create more hassles and paper work for the authorities and an inconvenience for the tourists!!

Really, many come for months? As a tourist who needs to work for a living and only gets between 2 and 6 weeks off a year I find your statement a little off center from the truth. Most folks I know get 2 weeks at a time and that's it.

[sandyf]

35 minutes ago, JimmyJ said:

What did Thailand gain by tightening up?

You really need to tighten up on context, or is it outside your vocabulary. If there is a question to be asked it should have been

"What did Thailand gain by returning to the same policy that has been used for many years?"

 

You seem to unable to differentiate the difference between promotional incentive and immigration policy. Thailand has regularly used short term promotional incentives.

A few years back they cancelled the fee on tourist visas for a short time. Obviously in your opinion there should never have been tourist visa fees ever again.

[sandyf]

5 minutes ago, paul1804 said:

That's a rather silly idea, many tourists come for much longer than 14 days and quite a a lot will spend  some months here so all this 30 day visa does is create more hassles and paper work for the authorities and an inconvenience for the tourists!!

Garbage.

Anyone who wants to come to Thailand for more than 30  days should arrive with an appropriate visa.

[moogradod]

4 minutes ago, sandyf said:

.............................

"What did Thailand gain by returning to the same policy that has been used for many years?"

..............................

 

 

And is there anybody who may answer this in a fashion that makes sense ?

[josephbloggs]

14 hours ago, Langsuan Man said:

I don't mind that they changed the Visa Exempt but how they did it is once again a nail in the coffin of tourism to Thailand 

Wahey, my favourite TVF cliche returns!

 

Quote

left for Ho chi men city on Friday the 31st and was stamped out of the country on my Visa Exempt and not a word was said about the rule change. 

So you expect them to tell people who are leaving the country about the rules should they decide to come back some time in the future? And people complain that immigration is slow!

"Passport and boarding pass please". *Hands over*. *Stamp*. "Before you leave I just would like to tell you about all the options for when you next arrive in Thailand. You are entitled to 30 days visa exempt which can be extended by a further 30 days by visiting an immigration office and paying 1,900 baht.  You can also apply for a tourist visa before you come for a 60 day visit and that can also be extended again by 30 days - just give me a call when you're coming and I can go in to more detail, here's my card".

 

"Next please!"

 

"Passport and boarding pass please". *Hands over*. *Stamp*. "Before you leave I just would like to tell you about all the options for when you next arrive in Thailand........"

Or, you know, people arriving here should be able to check for themselves just like 99.9999999% of tourists do. But you expect to be told on the way out.........weird.

 

Quote

The stamp in my passport is the straw that broke my back and I don't think that I will be returning. After almost twenty years it's just no longer worth jumping through their hoops and my only recourse is to vote with my feet

Seeya!  So being able to turn up with no visa and stay for a month (or up to two) is "jumping through hoops"? A bit of a drama queen??

[MarkyM3]

On 4/1/2023 at 9:30 AM, ThailandRyan said:

Exactly. My daughters are coming to visit in a few weeks and their jobs only allow 2 weeks of paid vacation a year as they have been working now for under 5 years at their current jobs, next year they will get a third week added as they will be into the next tier.  By the time they have 20 years with the company, provided they are still working for them they will have 6 weeks a year they can take. If they want to take time off other than what they are given then it is unpaid, and they can not afford that at this point in time.

US leave patterns do not reflect the rest of the world thankfully. It's standard to have 5 or 6 weeks vacation from the outset in UK, continental Europe and so forth. I fly the best part of 6000 miles from London to Bangkok and 2 weeks doesn't cut it I'm afraid if you want to relax properly.

 

3 weeks is the minimum trip for me and I frequently come for longer if possible. Getting over the jetlag takes a few days, for starters. OK, so I can buy a Tourist Visa from the London embassy and have done several times previously but it's an unnecessary hassle and expense. 

 

Your advocation of 5-10 days being fine for most visitors may be applicable for someone living in Singapore, HK who flies in to Thailand for a quick visit but I think you're totally wide of the mark for those outside the region or who don't work on US employment terms.  

 

As for reverting to the 30 day visa, it won't keep out those abusing the system. Look at all the corruption in the immigration service and the numerous Russians currently holed up in the country.

 

Would have made far more sense to stay at 45 days.

Edited April 3, 2023 by MarkyM3

[ThailandRyan]

7 minutes ago, MarkyM3 said:

US leave patterns do not reflect the rest of the world thankfully. It's standard to have 5 or 6 weeks vacation from the outset in UK, continental Europe and so forth. I fly 6000 miles and 2 weeks doesn't cut it. 3 weeks is the minimum trip for me and I frequently come for longer. Getting over the jetlag takes a few days for starters. OK, so I can buy a Tourist Visa and have done several times previously but it's an unnecessary hassle and expense. 

 

Your advocation of 5-10 days being fine for most visitors may be applicable for someone living in Singapore, HK who flies in to Thailand for a quick visit but I think you're wide of the mark for those outside the region or who don't work on US employment terms.  

 

As for the 30 day visa, it won't keep out those abusing the system. Look at all the corruption in the immigration service. It should have stayed at 45 days.

Your telling me you get 6 weeks of paid vacation? So if I was 24, just graduated from the university, and landed a job drawing plans for a building company in the UK or Europe, I would get 5 to 6 paid weeks off my first year of employment...paid time off is what we are talking about, not just being able to take a 5 or 6 week holiday.  My kids could take 3 months off if they could swing it, but they would be doing it on there own dime and not as a paid vacation, except for the 2 weeks, and then there seniority would be affected as well as loosing their medical insurance which is paid for by he company....

Edited April 3, 2023 by ThailandRyan

[marin]

5 hours ago, Langsuan Man said:

How is Immigration surprise change in the rules a sign of my incompetence?

There has been no surprise change. Since at least the beginning of December it has been known and documented the 45 day deal would end on March 31. Sure people hoped it would be extended but it was not. You should not have been surprised at all. 

 

[MarkyM3]

24 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Your telling me you get 6 weeks of paid vacation? So if I was 24, just graduated from the university, and landed a job drawing plans for a building company in the UK or Europe, I would get 5 to 6 paid weeks off my first year of employment...paid time off is what we are talking about, not just being able to take a 5 or 6 week holiday.  My kids could take 3 months off if they could swing it, but they would be doing it in there own dime and not a paid vacation, except for the 2 weeks, and then there seniority would be affected as well as loosing their medical insurance which is paid for by he company....

Yes....in fact it's illegal afaik to offer less than 20 days paid vacation in the UK, even at day 1. Plus you have 8 days public holidays on top. I'm a frequent visitor to the US so I'm aware of the big difference in the working culture between US and Europe. 

 

I'm in early 50s now but can say I've been getting 28-30 days of paid vacation since my early 30s or earlier (I didn't start work until mid 20s due to college). Plus 8 days public hols. And I buy a n extra week of vacation from my salary as well. So this year, I'm on 7 weeks plus public hols. 

 

I can say that it would be very rare for any employer in the UK to offer less than 25 days at outset for a professional job (I'm in IT working for a bank, nothing special). Plus the public hols on top.

 

I have also taken 2 career breaks during my working life, each of 6 months. Spent 5 months last year in Thailand on break #2. They were unpaid, of course, though I got my pension contributions paid 1st time around. 

 

Where the US definitely pulls ahead of Europe is on raw salary. But things like vacation and healthcare, the attitudes are much different. As you are probably aware, health schemes in Europe are funded by taxation generally. Higher level jobs offer private medical insurance as part of the package which can get you quick treatment but public health means you won't risk being uninsurable if you have serious medical issues. I had a brain tumour removed in 2019 - the entire treatment was done quickly and involved no direct cost to me. The issue with public health comes with waiting times for less urgent stuff.

 

My sister is a US citizen and I visit often so see both sides of the coin ????

 

 

Edited April 3, 2023 by MarkyM3

[moogradod]

25 minutes ago, MarkyM3 said:

US leave patterns do not reflect the rest of the world thankfully. It's standard to have 5 or 6 weeks vacation from the outset in UK, continental Europe and so forth........................................

 

 

Would have made far more sense to stay at 45 days.

You are so right MarkyM3 ????. Completely agree  - as well with your reasons you list.

[ThailandRyan]

22 minutes ago, moogradod said:

You are so right MarkyM3 ????. Completely agree  - as well with your reasons you list.

Yet more tourists from the US visit Thailand then from the UK.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 3, 2023 by ThailandRyan

[sabai-dee-man]

On 4/1/2023 at 8:47 AM, Operator2002 said:

Yes, ordinary tour-package tourists don't come for 1 month and more - but long stay people who can afford it, - do! 

And they spend minimum 20 000 baht per month: they rent property, they eat food, they shop - which is good for Thai economy and just better than nothing anyway. 

I stayed for almost 6 months, and spent about £15k. Travelled to Krabi, Khao Lak, Trat, Khao Yai, Korat, Udon and more. Saying that, saving up for 3 years (through Covid) certainly assisted with that spend, but 45 day visas made life simpler. I only had to do 2 border runs in those 6 months.

[Photoguy21]

On 4/2/2023 at 3:09 AM, bbbbooboo said:

Hmmm….but this is Thailand remember.

Agreed. Just thought a bit of common sense was justified.

[MarkyM3]

 

32 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Yet more tourists from the US visit Thailand then from the UK.

 

 

 

 

Well...the US has a population of approximately 5 times that of the UK yet the 2 countries are near enough level on that graph so.....

 

Most of the Americans I come across in Thailand are either retirees/near retirees or college aged kids. I don't tend to see lots of people in between that age group. If you've only got 2 or 3 weeks' vacation in total for a year then a holiday from US to Thailand seems a stretch....longer than flying from Europe and there aren't any direct flights at all now.   

Edited April 3, 2023 by MarkyM3

[ThailandRyan]

28 minutes ago, MarkyM3 said:

 

Well...the US has a population of approximately 5 times that of the UK yet the 2 countries are near enough level on that graph so.....

 

Most of the Americans I come across in Thailand are either retirees/near retirees or college aged kids. I don't tend to see lots of people in between that age group. If you've only got 2 or 3 weeks' vacation in total for a year then a holiday from US to Thailand seems a stretch....longer than flying from Europe and there aren't any direct flights at all now.   

It is a 19 hour flight plus add the 14 hour time difference and it takes you two days to arrive, yet the return trip with adding the hours back in really only takes you 5 to 6 hours depending on the fast layover in Seoul.  Daughters leave on a Saturday to fly here, land on Monday spend 14 days, fly out on the evening of the 14th and land in time to get to work at 9am. Most of the friends I have who travel here come to dive and are in there 30's and 40's a few in there early 50's and getting ready to retire.  That's the other difference, with many of the professions like mine was in the US, you can retire in your mid 50's and start collecting your pension immediately.  Many of the UK and EU retirees I know here are living on savings still in their 60's and waiting to collect there pensions. By the time I retired I had 34 years on the books and could take 6 weeks a year off, not all in a row however.  Luckily I was already coming here on government contracts for a few months at a time to train the Thai government folks.

[MarkyM3]

29 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

It is a 19 hour flight plus add the 14 hour time difference and it takes you two days to arrive, yet the return trip with adding the hours back in really only takes you 5 to 6 hours depending on the fast layover in Seoul.  Daughters leave on a Saturday to fly here, land on Monday spend 14 days, fly out on the evening of the 14th and land in time to get to work at 9am. Most of the friends I have who travel here come to dive and are in there 30's and 40's a few in there early 50's and getting ready to retire.  That's the other difference, with many of the professions like mine was in the US, you can retire in your mid 50's and start collecting your pension immediately.  Many of the UK and EU retirees I know here are living on savings still in their 60's and waiting to collect there pensions. By the time I retired I had 34 years on the books and could take 6 weeks a year off, not all in a row however.  Luckily I was already coming here on government contracts for a few months at a time to train the Thai government folks.

Thanks for background. I l just found 2 weeks wasn't enough. Hence my original point about visa duration.  

 

Regards pensions, the UK state pension doesn't kick in until 66 for men. But that isn't intended to be the primary source of retirement income for most people, it is nowhere near enough. Most professionals will retire at age 60 with private pensions. Those working for the police, fire service etc. can retire age 50 or earlier on very good pensions. Other sources of income like property investment, private investments have become somewhat more significant now than just the traditional pension route.  

 

I am officially due to retire age 60 (I've just turned 52), but could retire at age 55 on a reduced pension if I want to. My plan is to semi-retire in next 12-24 months and only work 3 or 4 months per year on contract until perhaps 60 and dip into other income sources. Once my company and state pensions are both active later in life my savings drawdown will slow right up.

 

By sounds of it, if you've worked for govt. for a long stint you'll be on a very good pension arrangement sheltered from inflation, which is great. Private arrangements just aren't going to live up to that unfortunately

 

Cheers ????

[BritTim]

7 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Your telling me you get 6 weeks of paid vacation? So if I was 24, just graduated from the university, and landed a job drawing plans for a building company in the UK or Europe, I would get 5 to 6 paid weeks off my first year of employment...paid time off is what we are talking about, not just being able to take a 5 or 6 week holiday.  My kids could take 3 months off if they could swing it, but they would be doing it on there own dime and not as a paid vacation, except for the 2 weeks, and then there seniority would be affected as well as loosing their medical insurance which is paid for by he company....

When I was 33 years old, following a Europe wide job technically based out of Germany, the company wanted to move me to an R&D group outside Boston. I had an excellent relationship with management, but the vacation question was difficult to navigate. I had been with the company only about three years, and my official vacation when I became a US employee was limited by company policy to four weeks maximum. This was not acceptable to me. Luckily, when experienced management want something to happen, there is always a way. I routinely worked up to 60 hour weeks at times (of course, no overtime pay as I was a salaried employee). It was agreed that I could keep track of the extra hours worked, and combine the hours to amass time off in lieu that, in effect, became extra weeks of paid vacation.

 

Management trusted me. I kept mum around the office about what I had negotiated. I did not take every possible day that I could have under this arrangement. I was also flexible about when I took the time off. However, I ended up with around seven weeks per year of paid vacation while in that position (pretty much the same as when I was in Europe). The system worked well for all concerned. I sometimes wonder how many other people in high stress jobs manage to convince their US companies to find ways around standard HR policy. People who work flat out need adequate time to unwind and recharge their batteries.

[sandyf]

16 hours ago, moogradod said:

And is there anybody who may answer this in a fashion that makes sense ?

You could try looking at what happened when previous temporary incentives ended, did tourism deteriorate or continue to improve?

History shows that the only major effects on tourism have been the financial crisis, the tsunami and covid, not the government, even a coup now and again has had little effect.

[Pink Mist]

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