Brit in intensive care after Thailand moped crash as family can't afford to get him home

[Enoon]

17 minutes ago, bristolgeoff said:

If we lucky we go on the begging bowl called go fund me.Maybe some fools who don,t know what happens will donate something towards the cost.Another go fund me begging bowl case

Lucky?

 

It's just a matter of "filling out the forms" to create an appeal.

 

My cousin did it for a completely spurious "cause" and, quite rightly, got **** all.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 4, 2023 by Enoon

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, phetpeter said:

5k x how many days = ??? True! if you say it quick enough, it doesnt sound to bad,

 

Half as much as 10k x how many days.

 

I was just commenting on how wildly you exaggerate. .

 

5k x 100 days would be half a million, which if his life is saved would be a bargain, to him anyways, yes?  

[RamblingOn]

8 hours ago, Celsius said:

Do I have to donate?

Up to you!!

[Chongalulu]

8 hours ago, Celsius said:

Do I have to donate?

Yes…your sage advice probably wouldn’t go amiss…. ???? 

[Chongalulu]

2 hours ago, Ralf001 said:

2 hours ago, Dan O said:

Nope, I just know how they operate. Everyone thinks they're covered for everything when in reality they have exclusions and exception to many things. Most people like yourself think your covered for everything until tragedy happens and you learn the truth. 

So what you are saying is you have no idea of my insurance policy.

 

Why are you replying with your bull<deleted>

The reality is there quite a common range of exclusions with most standard travel policies. Riding without a helmet or over the drink limit/ drugs will be an exclusion for all of them. Most too exclude cover when not having a licence in your own country for the vehicle you’re riding. If scuba diving you’ll need a proper qualification and likely some additional cover for ‘dangerous activities'. I had one of those and it excluded any dive exceeding 30 metres. So you can get a pretty good idea of what most are covered for 

[IamNoone88]

Even if they resolved the helmet issue, if he was not licensed to ride a bike in Thailand, that would be the next cause for declining the payout - rightly so.

[kwilco]

8 hours ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Why should they be when they basically buy their position or pay someone to take the entrance exam for them. 

You are stating the obvious but you seem to have forgotten the context. this is one of the reasons why e cannot say for sure what happened

[kwilco]

8 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

1)  Accident reports do not have to be presented to AN posters.

2) Police do not always attend traffic accidents in Thailand.

Both are irrelevant to me argument...and are you saying the police didn't atend this crash (it's not an accident)

[kwilco]

5 hours ago, Bangkok Barry said:

I assume you speak from personal experience, or that of others that you know, otherwise your comment has no validity.

from the word go your argument is valueless - You have no idea what rubbish that is - you are citing anecdotal evidence which is of little or no value whatsoever - I doubt by your reply you aren't in any way qualified to pass an opinion on medical matters and you seem to know nothing about how the Thai healthcare system works or the emergency services which are crucial to road victim survival - e.g the "golden hour".

Edited April 4, 2023 by kwilco

[kwilco]

5 hours ago, Bangkok Barry said:

The village even has its own ambulance.

You don't even understand why that is evidence of the dreadful first responder situation in Thailand.

[kwilco]

4 hours ago, smedly said:

I agree with you but............... since it is law here to wear a helmet is it correct of the ins company to assume he wasn't, seems to me to be the opposite, unless the ins company have actual evidence to say he was not wearing a helmet then IMO they are on shaky ground, perhaps legal intervention is an option here.

 

also -

I don't trust hospitals here, they are money making scams and this poor guy is a cash cow, keep him in intensive care likely in an induced coma - and the money rolls in - he can't stay there for ever

"Assume" - I agree, you can't assume in a situation like this - you need proof and evidence - if it was LAW - then a logical ASSUMPTION would be that he was wearing one - (you need to appreciate the limitations of protection offered by a helmet - especially the ones in Thailand). However the only witness will be an untrained impoverished police officer who wasn't at the scene when it happene and wandered around making assumptions of his own.

 

Unfortunately the family have now got to prove to the insurance company he was wearing a helmet - as there is no satisfactory police report, this will be nigh-on impossible one way or the other but as it is, the insurance company will keep their money....and possibly a local bobby might get a reward.

 

If however the guy WASN"t wearing a crash helmet it goes to show that the most stupid drivers in Thailand are the foreigners - they have laws at home and driver education and enforcement that makes them dress safely - yet these "superb" drivers after a couple of days in Thailand revert to the stupidity that they falsely accuse Thai people of.

Edited April 4, 2023 by kwilco

[it is what it is]

 

would have been useful if the OP had added some value by including the donation website link... just sayin...

[Dont confuse me]

9 hours ago, webfact said:

but his insurers said they will not pay £160,000 to return him to the UK on a special air ambulance as they believe he was not wearing a helmet at the time.

It appears that the lad had some insurance! The problem is that the insurance company will not pay his return to the UK, because they BELIEVE he wasn't wearing a helmet at the time of the accident!

Possible solutions are a few depositions stating he was seen wearing a helmet prior to accident. It doesn't state if his treatment in Thailand cannot continue.

If that's the case let the Thai hospital take care of him.

[rose33]

8 hours ago, kwilco said:

You are making baseless assumptions - Thailand has dreadful hospitals and care is dependant on ability to pay. Ine of the most serious factors in RTIs is that Thailand has no proper emergency services, no trained first responders and no uniform, centralised ambulance services.

Wow, interesting. I've seen ambulance training centres. I've seen signs on walls of hotels and massage places that show a phone number to call for an ambulance. When my area flooded there were vehicles delivering food and evacuating the elderly.

 

Were those only provincial / volunteer-based services?

 

[ukrules]

9 hours ago, webfact said:

The tourist's family are now trying to raise £200,000 as it has not been possible to prove whether the man was wearing a helmet or not.

Interesting, what kind of proof do they deem acceptable?

 

Are you supposed to have someone following you around making video?

 

This insurance sounds like it's not worth the paper it's written on - I wonder which insurance company it is?

Edited April 4, 2023 by ukrules

[NedR69]

9 hours ago, kwilco said:

So this is why the death rate in Thailand is so high. WHERE IS THE CRASH REPORT?

he truth is that the Thai police are simply not sufficiently trainined in crash and road safety protocol.

It is unlikely, in fact almost certain that the accident was not properly calibrated and analysed by the police so things like crash helmet, speed etc. will never be known within normal acceptable standards of proof.

 

failure to analyse and calibrate accidents means that Thailand has no knowledge of what is going on and cannot introduce effective road safety measures

SMH.  "...Thai police not trained in crash and road safety protocol."    This ain't the problem.  That mindset thinking is like waiting for a fire to start, and then saying the fire department didn't put the fire out correctly.  The problem is the loose nut behind the handlebars.....or steering wheel, and it starts long before that.

[Bangkok Barry]

49 minutes ago, kwilco said:

from the word go your argument is valueless - You have no idea what rubbish that is - you are citing anecdotal evidence which is of little or no value whatsoever - I doubt by your reply you aren't in any way qualified to pass an opinion on medical matters and you seem to know nothing about how the Thai healthcare system works or the emergency services which are crucial to road victim survival - e.g the "golden hour".

You seem to have a problem with medical care in Thailand. As I wrote, MY EXPERIENCE is the opposite. Yet you say I'm citing anecdotal, not personal, evidence. Your comprehension skills need improving. YOU are the one making baseless assumptions, yet you accuse others of doing so.

 

I wrote 'My own experience is that my local village government hospital cannot be faulted in any way, and costs are a fraction of what a private hospital will charge'.

 

I also wrote 'The problem is that such standards are not universal. Yes, Thailand does have some dreadful hospitals and doesn't have the infrastructure that the First World does (often at a very high cost). But it also has some very good ones where the costs are not overwhelming'. Something else you appear to be incapable of understanding.

 

You wrote: 'you seem to know nothing about how the Thai healthcare system works'. Well, I've been here for 26 years and myself and several members of my family have been users (victims in your view?) of the hospital and other health care services, and not one, including I, have been disappointed.

 

If you are gong to comment on what anyone says, at least read it properly and don't pick out the bits that suit you and ignore other parts.

[Bangkok Barry]

8 minutes ago, NedR69 said:

It is unlikely, in fact almost certain that the accident was not properly calibrated and analysed by the police

Your assumption, based on nothing at all other than your own imagination to fit your baseless comments upon. You fool nobody.

[Kalasin Jo]

10 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

"His family friend Joanne Gibson, 56, has now set up a Go Fund Me to help support Josh's family.

She said: "How on earth are normal working people meant to pay it?

"Where are they meant to get this money from?"

 

Miss Gibson, they take out travel insurance and they make sure that they're not so stupid as to invalidate it, that's how they pay for it.

Well it seems there is no proof one way or the other as to whether he wore a helmet. That surprises : none found at the scene I guess, none found at his place of stay either. but the medics should be able to say from the nature of his injuries whether he was or not. Insurers are not in the business of paying out if they can find a way not to.

[Stargeezr]

Lesson, always wear your helmet, if you are not rich enough to stay in a hospital for a month, then fly yourself back

to your home country. The parents of this guy had better hope that their go fund me is successful, or just

wait to see their son heal in hospital and get a regular priced ticket to fly back to the UK.

  No Helmet, no insurance.  Over the years I have seen many people Thais and foreign visitors who are too stupid

to wear a helmet, because it is too hot or uncomfortable. Well too bad for them if they crash, no sympathy from me.

[Kalasin Jo]

1 hour ago, ukrules said:

Interesting, what kind of proof do they deem acceptable?

 

Are you supposed to have someone following you around making video?

 

This insurance sounds like it's not worth the paper it's written on - I wonder which insurance company it is?

The insurers will want to see the first responder and police reports. They will also ask the treating medics whether the injuries are consistent with riding bareheaded or with a helmet. Insurers don't pay unless it's contractually clear they must.

[Sheryl]

Just now, Kalasin Jo said:

The insurers will want to see the first responder and police reports. They will also ask the treating medics whether the injuries are consistent with riding bareheaded or with a helmet. Insurers don't pay unless it's contractually clear they must.

The problem is that these reports in Thailand  are usual sketchy in the extreme and may make no mention od helmet  either way. In fact given the way the issue is described they clearly did not mention.

 

This is Thailand, Thsi police and rescue services (sic) do not know about or think of foreign travel insurance issues when responding to an accident. 

 

Doctors cannot say for sure based on an injury whether a helmet was worn.

 

So no evidence either way. 

 

IMO the burden of proof lies with insurer not the indured. I think an appeal to Ombudsman would have good chance of success. But will take time. 

 

 

[kwilco]

1 hour ago, NedR69 said:

SMH.  "...Thai police not trained in crash and road safety protocol."    This ain't the problem.  That mindset thinking is like waiting for a fire to start, and then saying the fire department didn't put the fire out correctly.  The problem is the loose nut behind the handlebars.....or steering wheel, and it starts long before that.

100% incorrect - that kind of think is why Thailand has such a high death rate  - usually from people who don't realise what terrible drivers they are themselves.

[kwilco]

39 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

The problem is that these reports in Thailand  are usual sketchy in the extreme and may make no mention od helmet  either way. In fact given the way the issue is described they clearly did not mention.

Absolutely.

[kwilco]

1 hour ago, Bangkok Barry said:

You seem to have a problem with medical care in Thailand. As I wrote, MY EXPERIENCE is the opposite. Yet you say I'm citing anecdotal, not personal, evidence. Your comprehension skills need improving. YOU are the one making baseless assumptions, yet you accuse others of doing so.

 

I wrote 'My own experience is that my local village government hospital cannot be faulted in any way, and costs are a fraction of what a private hospital will charge'.

 

I also wrote 'The problem is that such standards are not universal. Yes, Thailand does have some dreadful hospitals and doesn't have the infrastructure that the First World does (often at a very high cost). But it also has some very good ones where the costs are not overwhelming'. Something else you appear to be incapable of understanding.

 

You wrote: 'you seem to know nothing about how the Thai healthcare system works'. Well, I've been here for 26 years and myself and several members of my family have been users (victims in your view?) of the hospital and other health care services, and not one, including I, have been disappointed.

 

If you are gong to comment on what anyone says, at least read it properly and don't pick out the bits that suit you and ignore other parts.

now you aren't even discussing the topic. 

My arguments are objective yours aren't so actually don't even qualify as an argument.

you are "Dunning Krugering" the discussion.

you don't even understand that personal experience is anecdotal

Edited April 4, 2023 by kwilco

[Ralf001]

7 hours ago, nchuckle said:

The reality is there quite a common range of exclusions with most standard travel policies. Riding without a helmet or over the drink limit/ drugs will be an exclusion for all of them. Most too exclude cover when not having a licence in your own country for the vehicle you’re riding. If scuba diving you’ll need a proper qualification and likely some additional cover for ‘dangerous activities'. I had one of those and it excluded any dive exceeding 30 metres. So you can get a pretty good idea of what most are covered for 

I don't have a travel policy.

[Ralf001]

7 hours ago, kwilco said:

 

 

Unfortunately the family have now got to prove to the insurance company he was wearing a helmet - as there is no satisfactory police report, this will be nigh-on impossible one way or the other but as it is, the insurance company will keep their money....and possibly a local bobby might get a reward.

 

If he was wearing a helmet and the crash was enough to cause the head trauma which has required 2 rounds of surgery so far.

There would be impact damage on the helmet, surely showing the damaged helmet would have some sway in the argument he was wearing one.

 

I assume a helmet was found and recovered from the crash site.

[Boycie]

7 hours ago, it is what it is said:

 

would have been useful if the OP had added some value by including the donation website link... just sayin...

https://www.gofundme.com/f/josh-richardsons-medical-feed

[Darksidedude]

Advice to all wear a helmet and not the cheap ones that are useless the motorbike rental company hands out you, need a proper full face safety rated helmet

[quake]

5 minutes ago, Darksidedude said:

 you, need a proper full face safety rated helmet

Bs

Open face lid is fine.

 

Edited April 4, 2023 by quake