British man arrested for 'human trafficking' raid at bar in Thai resort as dozens of women are loaded into police truck

[Jumbo1968]

Maybe I am getting on in years but I can’t see the attraction of semi naked girls stood out side a bar selling their ‘wares’, well most are playing on their phones.

Similarly agogo bars inflated drinks prices to watch a bored girl wriggling on a pole.

In days gone by in the U.K. we used have strippers in the clubs generally on a Sunday afternoon, it used to be advertised as one for the boys. Cheap drinks and you didn’t have to pay them to perform either.

 

[Skallywag]

On 4/8/2023 at 6:53 AM, jacko45k said:

I am not sure about that... quite a lot of them are part of The Nightwish Group and as such not police owned. I am sure they are required to toe some line to be allowed to trade. 

None of the bars are "owned" by Nightwish.  Bars are leased out.  Land and buildings are all owned by Thai nationals/citizens.  

[n00dle]

On 4/8/2023 at 4:43 AM, AdamRich said:

It is not saying the person is doing something against their will. It merely means the facilitation of a person from one place to another for the purpose of paid sex.

utter <deleted>.

 

First of all are you talking about human trafficking or sex trafficking or do you even know?

The definition of trafficking is pretty damn clear:

 

Human trafficking, also known as trafficking in persons, is a crime that involves compelling or coercing a person to provide labor or services, or to engage in commercial sex acts. The coercion can be subtle or overt, physical or psychological. -- What is Human Trafficking? - Department of Justice

 

Coercion is the key here. Simply buying someone a bus ticket is not enough unless there has been some serious misrepresentation of conditions on the other end and some sort of manipulation that makes them unable to opt out. 

 

 

[n00dle]

On 4/8/2023 at 7:01 AM, Gknrd said:

Just another farang working illegally in Thailand. That is a Thai job not a farang.

 

it mut be horribly limiting to be so myopically fixated on perceived injustices in thai labour policies that you are unable to recognize greater issues

  

[Woof999]

On 4/8/2023 at 12:31 PM, Andrew65 said:

I remember going in girlie bars in Soi Cowboy where a sign at the door said "No Guns, No drugs, No one under 20 years old".

You didn't read the full sign. It said:

 

"No Guns, No Drugs, No one under 20 years old? You can get them all here."

[BTB1977]

Cops raided the 'Flirt' bar on the area's notorious Soi 6 road - packed with dozens of sex bars - next to the beach at around 9pm on April 5. Pictured: Police officers are seen at the bar

But when they go looking for sex bars they can never find any. And a  bill of clean health is given to all of Pattaya.  

[jacko45k]

5 hours ago, Skallywag said:

None of the bars are "owned" by Nightwish.  Bars are leased out.  Land and buildings are all owned by Thai nationals/citizens.  

I said they were someplace? 

[Harsh Jones]

On 4/7/2023 at 2:43 PM, AdamRich said:

That is because most people do not understand the definition of human trafficking. It is not saying the person is doing something against their will. It merely means the facilitation of a person from one place to another for the purpose of paid sex. So if the manager paid for a ticket from Isaan to Pattaya for a girl to work at the bar then that is human trafficking. If you paid a bar girl from Pattaya to go on holiday to Krabi with you, then that is also human trafficking.

I guess I can add human trafficking to my list of accomplishments. 

[Harsh Jones]

16 hours ago, n00dle said:

utter <deleted>.

 

First of all are you talking about human trafficking or sex trafficking or do you even know?

The definition of trafficking is pretty damn clear:

 

Human trafficking, also known as trafficking in persons, is a crime that involves compelling or coercing a person to provide labor or services, or to engage in commercial sex acts. The coercion can be subtle or overt, physical or psychological. -- What is Human Trafficking? - Department of Justice

 

Coercion is the key here. Simply buying someone a bus ticket is not enough unless there has been some serious misrepresentation of conditions on the other end and some sort of manipulation that makes them unable to opt out. 

 

 

But it also says "compelling or coercing". That is insane wording if this is the real definition. Basically everyone is a human trafficker. Anyone who ever enjoyed the company of a bargirl. Whether you compensated them for their time or not. 

 

 

[n00dle]

3 hours ago, Harsh Jones said:

But it also says "compelling or coercing".

i suppose the wording is insane, but only if you have no idea what compel or coerce mean.

I suppose we should be thankful you aren't in a position to enforce laws.

[papa al]

On 4/8/2023 at 4:43 AM, AdamRich said:

That is because most people do not understand the definition of human trafficking. It is not saying the person is doing something against their will. It merely means the facilitation of a person from one place to another for the purpose of paid sex. So if the manager paid for a ticket from Isaan to Pattaya for a girl to work at the bar then that is human trafficking. If you paid a bar girl from Pattaya to go on holiday to Krabi with you, then that is also human trafficking.

noun

the unlawful act of transporting or coercing people in order to benefit from their work or service, typically in the form of forced labor or sexual exploitation.

"she is a victim of human trafficking"

 

 

[Harsh Jones]

13 hours ago, n00dle said:

i suppose the wording is insane, but only if you have no idea what compel or coerce mean.

I suppose we should be thankful you aren't in a position to enforce laws.

If you are going to be condescending, at least be right. 

 

Compelling definition 

 

compelling Add to list Share

Other forms: compellingly

Compelling means attractive, or irresistible, or really, really convincing.

 

Arousing or denoting strong interest, esp admiring interest · (of an argument, evidence, etc) convincing ; that compels · irresistibly or keenly interesting

 

 

Edited April 11, 2023 by Harsh Jones

[Harsh Jones]

Lets look at that again. So if you are a good looking guy or a lady finds the size of your wallet compelling and you take her home, you are a human trafficker. 

 

Human trafficking, also known as trafficking in persons, is a crime that involves compelling or coercing a person...

 

 

compelling /kəmˈpɛlɪŋ/  adjective

Britannica Dictionary definition of COMPELLING

[more compelling; most compelling]

1 

 

: very interesting : able to capture and hold your attention

• The novel was so compelling that I couldn't put it down.

2 

 

: capable of causing someone to believe or agree

• compelling evidence
• He made a compelling argument.

Edited April 11, 2023 by Harsh Jones

[blackcab]

Off topic posts and replies to them have been removed.

[jak2002003]

Hang on.... Didn't the article say the police were seen loading the women into a police truck and taking them  off to the police station for questioning....

 

Isn't that trafficking them? 

 

[owl sees all]

On 4/8/2023 at 7:25 AM, worldexpress said:

How many police chiefs are involved in the arrest and what kind of handcuffs do they use to make witnesses to question if they were, in fact, handcuffs? Hmm..

They don't use 'handcuffs' anymore for this type of sweep-up. They use reusable cable-ties. My friend's daughter in law, told me when she was arrested for going out during the C-19 lock-down.

[ozimoron]

45 minutes ago, n00dle said:

There is much irony in that remark. Much ignorance as well.

 

I realize English can be confusing, So lets lay it out for you like I would for a child. 

 

Compelling is used in this instance as a verb, NOT an adjective as you suggest,  

The flaw in your logic is that human trafficking does not imply compulsion. Enticing through offering a salary or any other inducement including transport or accommodation will do the job. Merely offering any form of benefit for the purposes of luring a person into the sex trade is human trafficking.

[n00dle]

24 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

The flaw in your logic is that human trafficking does not imply compulsion. Enticing through offering a salary or any other inducement including transport or accommodation will do the job. Merely offering any form of benefit for the purposes of luring a person into the sex trade is human trafficking.

 

My response was to someone who is unable to distinguish between a verb or an adjective, but how this not a form of compulsion?

 

Then there is the fact that human trafficking is not exclusive to the sex trade.

 

also, it is not my logic, as I stated in my first post in the matter it is the us government's.

 

https://www.justice.gov/humantrafficking/what-is-human-trafficking

Forgive the weird formatting in my response, I'm writing on a tablet. The only intentional bold is the hight lighted text in the quote.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 12, 2023 by n00dle

[HauptmannUK]

The American 'Christian Right' are behind this 'human trafficking' BS.  Christian Conservative NGOs got access to US federal funding in 2001 (thanks to Bush) and went on a global mission to impose their veiwpoint and very broad definition of 'trafficking' on countries such as Thailand.

[blackcab]

A comment on moderation has been removed.

 

From the forum rules:

 

13. You will not publicly comment on moderation in an open forum. You will not comment on actions taken by individual moderators or on specific or general policies and issues. You will not post a negative emoticon in response to a public notice made by a moderator. You may send a private message to a moderator to discuss individual actions or you can email support (at) aseannow.com to discuss moderation policy and account suspensions. Aggression or abuse against moderators is not tolerated and any such action will be sanctioned. There is no excuse for abuse.

[n00dle]

On 4/9/2023 at 9:09 PM, Jumbo1968 said:

Maybe I am getting on in years but I can’t see the attraction of semi naked girls stood out side a bar selling their ‘wares’, well most are playing on their phones.

Similarly agogo bars inflated drinks prices to watch a bored girl wriggling on a pole.

In days gone by in the U.K. we used have strippers in the clubs generally on a Sunday afternoon, it used to be advertised as one for the boys. Cheap drinks and you didn’t have to pay them to perform either.

 

Failing to see how any of this is relevant

[owl sees all]

12 hours ago, Sticky Rice Balls said:

THIS ...all day.. I used to work in a kitchen at Scores..very popular gents club......worked door at another and dj'd at a 3rd...should hear the
hotties" chain smoke and talk like sailors in the kitchen....most had baby seats in their cars as well........and the suckers who would fawn all over them......yuk

 

remember gents..its all about the money...or as ive heard the thais say  Money #1...my foolish roomie let 2 of them move into his place after i left and their yappy dogs ruined the place and they paid rent in singles!.....drove nice cars tho...approach with caution as nothing is what it appears to be..esp in LOS

Yes, yes yes. But are they happy?

 

One day they will look back and regret that they didn't take advantage of their very being. Being human is a one in a trillion occurrence. Best not to abuse that.

 

[NanLaew]

On 4/10/2023 at 3:58 PM, n00dle said:

utter <deleted>.

 

First of all are you talking about human trafficking or sex trafficking or do you even know?

The definition of trafficking is pretty damn clear:

 

Human trafficking, also known as trafficking in persons, is a crime that involves compelling or coercing a person to provide labor or services, or to engage in commercial sex acts. The coercion can be subtle or overt, physical or psychological. -- What is Human Trafficking? - Department of Justice

 

Coercion is the key here. Simply buying someone a bus ticket is not enough unless there has been some serious misrepresentation of conditions on the other end and some sort of manipulation that makes them unable to opt out. 

 

 

 

Is there any validity in (repeatedly) posting the US government's definition of human trafficking? This being Thailand and all?

 

@goatfarmer has already posted on the second page of this thread what Thailand's legal definition of human trafficking is.

 

If it's part of the whole procurement and exploitation process, then Section 6 pretty much covers the act of "buying someone a bus ticket" as well.

Edited April 12, 2023 by NanLaew

[Jumbo1968]

43 minutes ago, n00dle said:

Failing to see how any of this is relevant

Why do people come to Thailand to ogle women on a pole and pay top dollar for beer that’s the relevance.

 

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Jumbo1968 said:

Why do people come to Thailand to ogle women on a pole and pay top dollar for beer that’s the relevance.

There's pole dancing in Thailand? Not in Pattaya anymore at least.

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

There's pole dancing in Thailand? Not in Pattaya anymore at least.

Really? I have it on good account that there's still pole shuffling at the TQ on Beach. Saw it with my own 4 eyes last January as well.

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

Really? I have it on good account that there's still pole shuffling at the TQ on Beach. Saw it with my own 4 eyes last January as well.

Maybe, I never bother to go into that bar. Certainly it's disappeared in most gogo bars now.

[Jumbo1968]

40 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Maybe, I never bother to go into that bar. Certainly it's disappeared in most gogo bars now.

What’s the attraction in agogo bar then ?

[bang saen guy]

Soi 6 getting touchy

[ozimoron]

49 minutes ago, Jumbo1968 said:

What’s the attraction in agogo bar then ?

There used to be pole dancing in many pole dancers in gogo bars.