British tourists to Thailand: Are you really covered? Travel insurance warning for medical emergencies

[soi3eddie]

4 hours ago, Henryford said:

In the past i had to ask my insurance company several times if bikes over 125cc were covered. Eventually they confirmed they were not. Many people probably think their Aerox and PCX 150s are covered, until they try to claim.

I'm very aware of this and always choose a policy that covers me on my ADV150. Many cheap policies will no longer cover motorcycling at all. In addition, I have 1st class insurance on the bike which gives some medical coverage. 

 

 

[sqwakvfr]

3 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

But they don't do that with legitimate claims.   Seems that a lot of posters here think that insurers should provide cover for circumstances that were not paid for by the premium.

I would disagree.  I briefly worked for a major US Insurance company and went to their Claims Handling school just outside of Chicago and the unstated message was always:  Find a way to deny and if we have to pay “low ball them”.  This was never on paper but everyday these two things were drilled into our heads.  

[hotchilli]

4 hours ago, kingstonkid said:

There is o likelihood of the accident if you are safe and take care of yourself.  How many people here would go out on a wood balcony in this country at a hotel?

how many would drive on a scooter late a night with no helmet?

How many of us go for walks at night in places like =Khao Toa

 

As to hospital prices, they are cheaper than in any other Western country the difference is for Brits and Canucks at least they expect their government health care to cover it.

 

If you look at the inflated costs, it is not so much the health care as the repatriation that raises the cost, and I am sure that most of the people involved are not shopping and looking for a deal from Thai to UK but talking to UK companies.

 

Bottom line is 

 

Have a set of questions ready before you get the insurance.

When they answer, you have them, show you where it says what you want it to say

Ask about exclusions

a. read the whole document.

Don't do stupid things If it is illegal to drive a bike without a helmet in the UK what makes you think they will cover you if you do it in Thailand.

If you are sick do not go to HHISO hospitals go to mid-range.

Learning to drive a scooter by renting one here is a stupid idea.

 

 

Easier to book a better destination.

Edited April 10, 2023 by hotchilli

[Bday Prang]

1 hour ago, kwilco said:

Whereas your concern about safety is laudable, your knowledge of actual safety devices is somewhat lacking.

          Nothing wrong with my knowledge of motorcycle brakes,  and nothing wrong with drum brakes on motorcycles. Do you honestly think that companies like Honda etc would equip their products with drum brakes if they were, as you incorrectly say "use less"    Utter rubbish ,    The first motorcycle to lap the Isle of man TT circuit at 100mph was fitted with drum brakes,  Classic racing motorcycles still use drum brakes do you think that would be allowed if they were "useless" 

          Further more an inexperienced rider grabbing a big handful of front  brake on a motorcycle equipped with  disc brakes is likely to lock up the front wheel and would be kissing the tarmac before they knew what happened,  especially when cornering or in wet conditions, unless they had the additional feature of ABS

 Under extreme conditions drum brakes may  exhibit a tendency to "fade" a little but if you are the sort of rider who pushes his honda wave that hard, which I genuinely doubt, you really need to  slow down Mr Agostini

Edited April 10, 2023 by Bday Prang

[cnx101]

8 hours ago, WHansen said:

Insurance companies globally (not just British) are thieves and deliberately hide what's not covered, wether it be home, vehicle, business, health or travel insurance.

 

Yes, everybody should read and understand the policy they are purchasing but it can be a minefield if you are not fairly well educated or too young to understand that insurance is legalised robbery.

The insurers will do everything in their power to avoid paying 

[NoshowJones]

9 hours ago, Trip Hop said:

There are quite a few that fall into this category but don’t tar everyone with the same brush.

 

Most policies along with flights and holidays are bought online these days so not really over the counter. With the insurers that I use, everything is straight forward. Simple table of the 4 levels of cover available containing a summary of the differences between them. Click one button to see the full policy schedule for each which is straight forward to read and doesn’t contain any real small print as such. And before you ask, yes they do pay out!

If that is true it sure makes a change, insurance companies have their small print, it is small because they do not want you to notice it, and then there is their legal jargon made out so the people with no legal knowledge (which is most people) do not understand it properly, and just accept it when their claim is refused.

[Bday Prang]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

 

This shows you are making stuff up...  No motorcycles use drum brakes anymore.... 

And... Chose one with ABS.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is you who is making things up many motorcycles are equipped with drum brakes both front and rear, what on earth lead you to think otherwise? .   Check the link if you don't believe me               https://www.greatbiker.com/honda-wave-alpha-2023-3/

You are correct about ABS though , very helpful for inexperienced riders

 

[scubascuba3]

1 hour ago, kwilco said:

That's not what you said... you were implying that comparison sites show this detail...they don't. I had to ring/ email my insurer directly to sort out finer details and even then they couldn't answer straight away either.

My most recent query was about size of M/C the limit was 125cc.

I also got extra excess waiver on my car hire.

I was covered for a preexisting condition and and any delays due to Covid. Each trip is limited to so many days at a time, the length of which depends on your age.

These are simple declarations and easily verified by insurance companies.

Usually one "failure to declare" voids ALL cover, not just the one item.

Some people don't even realise what countries they are covered for.

comparison sites do show the detail by clicking on the policy doc, they also show things like excess, repatriation, cover, etc in the summary, it's not difficult,if something is missing contact the insurance company like i did

Edited April 10, 2023 by scubascuba3

[Bday Prang]

9 hours ago, harleyclarkey said:

What we see here is mostly scooter/motorcycle accidents. A recent go fund me for £200,000 - really??? ????

Stupid to rent a bike anywhere in the world without at least a helmet. 

Stupid of any country to allow bikes to be rented without providing a helmet.

Stupid of any police force not to fine idiots with no helmet. 

Also incredibly stupid to consider learning to ride any  motorcycle in a foreign country with no previous experience. No matter which side of the road you are used to driving on. and doubly stupid to do this in a country like Thailand for obvious reasons 

[Foghorn]

3 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

No, that's your moral of your story but it is false.

So we can assume you sell insurance with all  defensive posts , and from the 87% that is paid out a large majority is the low figure amounts that doesn’t affect peoples lives , the larger ones are thought to the bitter end 

[Andrew65]

4 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

It comes down to age as well....  when I was young I was under the impression that the travel insurance provided by my ‘credit card’ sufficient cover... why wouldn’t I ????.... when I took the card that was one of the main points of the advertising (full travel insurance) so when I received the card I thought I was covered whenever I travelled (turns out I needed to book the travel through the ‘cards travel provider, or some such similar technicality’). 

 

I’m sure many others have fallen into that trap / been mistaken and look back and realise they were lucky. 

 

 

The No Helmets / Riding while drunk / without a licence etc are also issues - I know this is common sense, but Insurance companies could be a lot clearer with their exclusions, particularly in key areas of cover. 

(i.e. on front page - NOT COVERED IF RIDING WITHOUT A LICENCE, WITHOUT A HELMET OR WHILE INTOXICATED)

 

 

Regarding the main article: 

Since when was this considered a ‘hazardous sport’ ??....   I’ve done this, my family have all done this - IF such activities are considered dangerous insurance policies need to **list them, not hide behind vague wording ‘DANGEROUS ACTIVITIES’ because what I considered dangerous may be different and if an insurance company is not specific on this, their wording simply gives them wiggle room when the underwriter decides the claim is too high and ’rafting down a river’ or ‘falling off an elephant’ (or horse etc) was a ‘DANGEROUS ACTIVITY’....

 

 

This is untrue - Driving in Thailand on a UK licence is legal, there is also misconception that an IDP is needed (it not for a Licence issued in English from a country which is signatory to 1968 Vienna convention on road traffic).

(*Note: if the driver is a resident (i.e. on a Non-Immigrant Visa) they need to have a Thai Licence).

 

I don't care to get into the nth debate about these facts and the various interpretations surrounding the vagueness of the Thai Land Traffic Act etc (That said: I would advise any tourist to also get an IDP and any resident to get a Thai licence to avoid such debates with ether the police or an insurance company etc).

 

----------

 

**Regarding Elephant tracking being considered a dangerous sport. 

No insurance policy I have ever read mentions this. 

A while back it took me two months to obtain clarification from an insurance company regarding their wording ‘dangerous activities’...    their response was repeatedly vague and ambiguous... 

At one point the response was something along the lines of “cover (for skiing) will be decided upon based on the extent of the injuries in the event of an accident”, when pushed on this they responded that they’d decided IF in the event of injury they’d interpret if we were skiing dangerously based on the extent of injury... Which, IMO was utterly ridiculous. 

Eventually after a lot of back and forth and pushing them into corners I received a list and of specifics regarding cover. 

- Skiing (any country On Piste and / or Off-piste with a guide) - [full cover]

- Bicycling (in Thailand, on roads) - [full cover]

- Mountain biking  (on and off road) - [full cover]

- Wakeboarding / water skiing  (in Thailand) - [full cover]

- Motorcycling (in Thailand, on roads) - [full cover when licensed]

- Motorcycle Taxi  (in Thailand) - [full cover / no mention of helmet or not]

- Taxi  (in Thailand) - [full cover / no mention of seatbelt wearing or not]

- Diving - [full cover - when recreational diving IF certified (PADI) or with an instructor]

- Competitive Sports - [when not professional - fully covered]

 

Things I didn’t think of... 

- Rafting / Elephant riding / Bungee jumping / SkyDiving / *crossing the road !!!... 

 

(*potetnially one of the most dangerous activities in Thailand !)

 

The Point with my List is that it took two months to push the insurance company to be specific - their initial ambiguity provided them with sufficient wiggle room to avoid a claim, I accused them of such. 

At that point I was a few months away from needing renewal cover and wanted to ‘win’ and push them to give specific responses just to see how far they would go to avoid specifics and potentially avoid responsibility.

IMO, they’re [insurance companies] are all as bad as each other and look for the smallest of reasons not to pay out. 

 

 

 

 

 

(Nit-picking) I'm pretty sure that we (falang) can drive on our home country licences in Thailand for the first 3 months after arrival, after which we need an intl or Thai driving licence.

I would think that how comprehensive your insurance is is dependent on the cover/how much you paid for it, might be a factor.

I'm not surprised if injuries resulting from Skiing (unlikely in Thailand), Jet-skiing (water-sports), bungee-jumping etc etc wouldn't be covered by insurance. As others have pointed out, it's easy to examine a policy small print to check before buying it.

[Andrew65]

1 hour ago, kwilco said:

Brexit is a mentality.

Only for those who obsess about it?????

[kingstonkid]

49 minutes ago, hotchilli said:

Easier to book a better destination.

And a better sager destination is where.  

 

Bottom line unless you obey the laws and look after your self responsibly you are screwed.

There is no where in the world that you can safely ride a bike with no helmet or training

[Chongalulu]

7 hours ago, mikebell said:

like breathing or crossing the road.

Frequently you have stopped breathing before completing the crossing of the road… ???? 

[richard_smith237]

20 minutes ago, Andrew65 said:

(Nit-picking) I'm pretty sure that we (falang) can drive on our home country licences in Thailand for the first 3 months after arrival, after which we need an intl or Thai driving licence.

I would think that how comprehensive your insurance is is dependent on the cover/how much you paid for it, might be a factor.

I'm not surprised if injuries resulting from Skiing (unlikely in Thailand), Jet-skiing (water-sports), bungee-jumping etc etc wouldn't be covered by insurance. As others have pointed out, it's easy to examine a policy small print to check before buying it.

Skiing was the main one for us...  BUT, its not easy to examine the policy before buying, I found it difficult to get hold of policy details and even any specific information on this before buying. 

 

This was Health Insurance rather than Travel insurance and the Companies were being extremely vague regarding cover...  As I wrote; at one point their response was that they’d assess extent of injury before deciding if we were covered. I interpreted that as “we’ll see how expensive the medical care would be before we decide if we’ll pay out”...  

 

We were covered in the end, but it took a lot of back and forth to get that guarantee in writing. 

 

I’ve since reduced the level of cover we have to inpatient cover only, and use World Nomads for our overseas trips (to ensure cover for possible out patient treatment from ski injuries / baggage loss etc and such similar potential issues on our trips).

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 10, 2023 by richard_smith237

[PeeJayEm]

There is so much rubbish written in response to this article.

I'm speaking from recent experience when I say that:

- Thai government hospitals are far better than UK NHS in time, and care quality (I recently had a major heart issue) and the costs are very low;

- good UK travel insurance policies covering medical and accident events are fully available - also for long stay and including various sports as

options;

- the documentation requirements to support claims are thorough but not arduous.  If they were slack the premiums would be sky high;

The issue is that these UK travellers who end up in trouble either can't or don't read - and some intelligence and self management is needed of which the  "after-the-event crowd-finding" idiots seem to be totally bereft.

The article out to be about how poor the UK education system now is in world rankings - and the huge number of dummies that produces who think they can rove the world with ignorance and impunity.

[PeeJayEm]

Although I always ensure my insurance covers what I need and comply With the small print, I have a worrying habit of taking motosai taxis in Bangkok when there's a jam or I'm late.  There's usually

never a helmet available or one that fits poorly or is missing internal parts.

It would be quite a job to explain that away on event of accident.

As a long stayer each year, I reckon I should take my own crash helmet In Thailand when I visit next time.

[kwilco]

2 hours ago, Andrew65 said:

It's probably the NHS mentality, because medical costs aren't soemthing that Brits have to worry about, or know about.

Also, this issue was exactly the same when the UK was an EU member state, and the UK is still as much part of the rest of the world as it always was. Then again, I've got used to people mentioning Brexit with reagrd to things that have absolutley nothing to do with it.

It was that situation of mindset changing that led to Brexit. Similar to the Trump disease but without health care insurance.

Before those travelling anywhere in the EU travellers could at least rely on local health care there... they now have to get a new less comprehensive card.... I doubt if many do.

This arrogant and racist "I'm  British and don't need any foreign help" is a mindset that can leave British people in a real mess when  in Thailand they find they weren't quite as good a motorcyclist as they thought they were.

[richard_smith237]

15 minutes ago, PeeJayEm said:

There is so much rubbish written in response to this article.

I'm speaking from recent experience when I say that:

- Thai government hospitals are far better than UK NHS in time, and care quality (I recently had a major heart issue) and the costs are very low;

Purely anecdotal...   other anecdote suggests the UK NHS is much better - the experience depends very much on which hospital and in which area you end up (in either country). 

 

 

15 minutes ago, PeeJayEm said:

- good UK travel insurance policies covering medical and accident events are fully available - also for long stay and including various sports as

options;

- the documentation requirements to support claims are thorough but not arduous.  If they were slack the premiums would be sky high;

Agreed... there are good travel insurance companies. BUT, there is also another facet to this issue that some companies are misleading in the level of cover provided, particularly with credit cards etc...  some cards ’sell’ themselves with loads of perks including travel insurance etc... often this cover is minimal at best and some people may be travelling under a false understanding of the cover they have. 

 

 

15 minutes ago, PeeJayEm said:

The issue is that these UK travellers who end up in trouble either can't or don't read - and some intelligence and self management is needed of which the  "after-the-event crowd-finding" idiots seem to be totally bereft.

The policy wording can often be far less vague and ambiguous - the language used in the policies can often be confusing, even for the educated (non-lawyers).

 

Then of course, there are plenty of those who are ‘just chancers’ and travel with the full knowledge they have no cover and the belief ‘it won’t happen to them’... 

 

15 minutes ago, PeeJayEm said:

The article out to be about how poor the UK education system now is in world rankings - and the huge number of dummies that produces who think they can rove the world with ignorance and impunity.

What were you staying about the ‘education system again’ ????...  (if you’re going down the ‘education road’ its perhaps better that you don’t allow your own writing to betray your own flaws !!!) ????

Edited April 10, 2023 by richard_smith237

[richard_smith237]

3 minutes ago, kwilco said:

It was that situation of mindset changing that led to Brexit. Similar to the Trump disease but without health care insurance.

Before those travelling anywhere in the EU travellers could at least rely on local health care there... they now have to get a new less comprehensive card.... I doubt if many do.

I doubt so too. I am not aware of this card, I wonder how many other Brits are.

I’m sure its readily available, but it takes a specific mindset to ‘hunt out’ information regarding such cover, which may not even cross the mind of those who’ve never thought about such issues before. 

 

Perhaps this is the issue - it's not arrogance, its simple lack of familiarity with such issues (of course, called out as ‘arrogance and racist’ by Brit haters looking for a cheap dig ?)

 

 

3 minutes ago, kwilco said:

This arrogant and racist "I'm  British and don't need any foreign help" is a mindset that can leave British people in a real mess when  in Thailand they find they weren't quite as good a motorcyclist as they thought they were.

Wow... because a motorcyclist is involved in an accident they are arrogant and racist ???? - thats some impressive hyperbolic reasoning....  

 

 

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

I couldn't disagree more adamantly, which seems to be the theme of our recent exchanges. There is so much evidence to the contrary. Though, I am sure the industry appreciates your faith in them. 

 

Even calling it "insurance" is a sick joke. Insurance implies a guarantee, and no matter what we pay, there are never any guarantees. I propose replacing the word "insurance" with the word "maybe?" -- including the question mark -- as in "health maybe?" Maybe they'll pay when we get sick. Maybe they won't randomly hike our monthly premium by 30 percent. Maybe they'll cover our preexisting conditions without gouging us -- that is if they agree to cover us at all. Maybe they won't let our family members die after refusing coverage.

 

Allstate is a great example of intentional insurance fraud, committed against policy holders. 

 

https://www.decof.com/documents/the-ten-worst-insurance-companies.pdf

 

 

Good article. 

 

Unfortunately, it is a tenet of our capitalist system to put shareholders' interests above policyholders'. A better balance is needed, but I think that will be difficult under the present circumstances.

 

As far as fraud is concerned, CEOs and other corporate officers will probably have to be put in jail in order for this to stop, and that does not seem to happen very frequently unless shareholders are harmed.  Better regulation, oversight and enforcement is needed. 

 

There is one US political party that stands opposed to almost any form of corporate regulation and many of the people most at risk of being hurt by corporate avarice and fraud seem to be keen to vote for that party. Perhaps preventing women and their physicians from making reproductive healthcare decisions is more important than reining in rogue companies and sending CEOs to jail for fraud.

[Fat is a type of crazy]

Credit card travel insurance on many, if not all, Australian cards is pretty much the same as a purchased policy, i.e. basic, as in not covering risky stuff, but often the exact same policy you buy still the same $ amount, and items, as buying policy direct. I assume it is the same elsewhere but possibly not.

On my card I don't need to even purchase ticket with card - simply take card and have cover. 

So free credit card insurance can be a worthwhile option. 

 

[kwilco]

51 minutes ago, Andrew65 said:

Only for those who obsess about it?????

It's. a realisation of a general shift in UK mentality.... being aware is not being obsessed. There isa shift away from critical thinking towards rightwing non-scientifically reasoned thought. THis is precisely the sort of thing that dominates people's thinking when it comes to understanding their insurance policies

[kwilco]

30 minutes ago, PeeJayEm said:

There is so much rubbish written in response to this article.

I'm speaking from recent experience when I say that:

- Thai government hospitals are far better than UK NHS in time, and care quality (I recently had a major heart issue) and the costs are very low;

people who pass judgements on medical procedures are usually not qualified to do so - furthermore they don't realise that - it is a paucity of thought.

[Bday Prang]

 For English speaking countries ,what is the point of an IDP in Thailand  anyway? It doesn't translate ones licence into Thai,  and Spanish , Chinese, and Arabic are not widely spoken in Thailand. There is no test involved to obtain one. simply nip down to the post office and pay £5 and you've got one!  Anyway It actually counts for nothing unless accompanied by ones original driving licence too.

The  original purpose for an IDP in  Thailand was to provide an english translation of licences issued in non english speaking countries, and as another member has mentioned , until recently, was not a requirement if ones original Licence was in english

 The fact is, that obtaining any 1st world driving licence requires a far higher demonstration of driving skills than anything required to obtain a Thai licence,  which for foreigners already holding a licence from their home countries, can be obtained simply by passing a few simple tests , ie colour blindness, reaction time , and general eyesight, followed by watching a video,  absolutely no driving required .  

For an insurance company to refuse a claim based on not having an IDP is a cop out in my opinion. although to refuse a claim due to one not having a car or motorcycle licence issued in their own country is fair enough 

[mark131v]

It's not straightforward to get insurance that covers for using motorcycles and then even more difficult to ride bigger cc bikes you'll also need an IDP if you aren't wanting to be paying local plod on a regular basis 

 

It's a prerequisite to have a full UK license to have cover for anything over 125cc but tbh riding anything in Thailand without a full licence is dodgy a f. There are companies that do cover bikes but you need to look specifically for them and certainly not rely on a bog standard comparison site company providing cover

 

It also goes without saying you are required to wear an helmet but most experienced riders wouldn't dream of not wearing proper gear of jacket, gloves trousers gloves and boots at a minimum anything else and it's russian roulette, I still vividly remember coming off a moped in flip flops and skinning my toes, believe me you only ever want to do that once...

[chang1]

5 hours ago, Andrew65 said:

There's the fact that his Mastercard bill/statement was sent to his home address which was now in Thailand rather than Ireland, he was probably covered when holdaying in Thailand, as he originally did.

The insurance is provided by a separate company. It was AXA but it has now changed to another. I can't remember having to prove how long my trip was but I probably had to show my passport to their Thai agent.

[Bday Prang]

24 minutes ago, kwilco said:

It was that situation of mindset changing that led to Brexit. Similar to the Trump disease but without health care insurance.

Before those travelling anywhere in the EU travellers could at least rely on local health care there... they now have to get a new less comprehensive card.... I doubt if many do.

This arrogant and racist "I'm  British and don't need any foreign help" is a mindset that can leave British people in a real mess when  in Thailand they find they weren't quite as good a motorcyclist as they thought they were.

It certainly takes a special kind of person to drag Brexit and Donald Trump in to a discussion about insurance. The same sort of person who mentions racism and arrogance whilst attempting to insult and stereotype an entire nation of people.

It is no surprise at all that in a later post you mention "Right wing non scientific thought"  although I was surprised that you appear have omitted  the word "extreme" before the words "rightwing"   Presumably you consider left wing ideology to be totally science based ?  The vile comments you are spewing out are not unexpected from the likes of you.

I have been suspended several time in the past for far less offensive remarks than the ones you have made in this thread and you deserve the same.

What is your problem ? did one of our world famous  British swordsmen  roger  your wife ? or deflower and Impregnate your daughter? or maybe you recently received a well deserved good hiding from one of our reckless arrogant racist drunks ?  I certainly hope so.

Or have you , quite rightly, been denied entry to our green and pleasant land. If that's the case you must be a real wrong'un, as incase you haven't noticed, they let nearly anybody into Great Britain these days.

 I would suggest that you will be a lot safer if you keep your nasty arrogant bigoted racist views to yourself

 

[Andrew65]

3 minutes ago, chang1 said:

The insurance is provided by a separate company. It was AXA but it has now changed to another. I can't remember having to prove how long my trip was but I probably had to show my passport to their Thai agent.

Yes, understood.

The issue that I pointed out to my old friend was that he was insured whilst travelling, or on holiday, but not when the holiday deatination became his home, full-time.

[chang1]

3 hours ago, Bday Prang said:

There is nothing wrong with drum brakes, nothing at all !

On small bikes they are hopeless compared to disc brakes. On a car or pickup you won't notice the difference but on the front of a bike you will for sure. Disk brakes either work or don't whereas drum brakes gradually become less efficient. Rental bikes are often not well maintained so just not worth the risk.

I also travel with my wife and son so efficient brakes are a must. A small person riding solo on a well maintained bike can get away with them.