What can be done to make Thai Roads safer?

[Scott]

There are a lot of complaints about highway safety in Thailand.  This is a thread to allow members to discuss what can be done to improve the safety of roads in Thailand.  Please exercise care in making sweeping remarks about the driving skills of any particular nationality.  

[KhunLA]

Simply driving the speed limit, and doin proper speed for conditions, would go a long way.   I do, and really can't understand how people would have an accident if they did.  Give you more than enough time & distance to stop, if someone has an oops in front of you.

 

Simply amazed at how fast people drive, when I'm doing the speed limit, as no way can they stop in time, if something, someone presents themselves in front of them

[Furioso]

I almost bought the farm 2x this week, both times it was because of a speeding, reckless motorbike rider. 

 

1. 2nd road, driving on far left side veering to my left to park on side of road. a CRAZY motorbike rider flys into my left side mirror, ripping it(and my smartphone holder) off it's mount onto the dirty pavement. Speeding driver? Yes. Reckless driver? Yes. 

 

2. 2AM. I'm a little off the beaten path. I ride my bike around 100 meters to the 7-11. Very little cars motorbikes on the road. I'm parking my bike and at first, hear a speeding motorbike, then he comes into view, he's flying down the road for no reason, he veers left onto the same road that I just came from 20 seconds ago. No helmet, no turn signal, grossly over any speed limit, no pause or concern in the world at all. As fast as he was going it would have killed me. 

[Furioso]

18 minutes ago, Furioso said:

I almost bought the farm 2x this week, both times it was because of a speeding, reckless motorbike rider. 

 

1. 2nd road, driving on far left side veering to my left to park on side of road. a CRAZY motorbike rider flys into my left side mirror, ripping it(and my smartphone holder) off it's mount onto the dirty pavement. Speeding driver? Yes. Reckless driver? Yes. 

 

2. 2AM. I'm a little off the beaten path. I ride my bike around 100 meters to the 7-11. Very little cars motorbikes on the road. I'm parking my bike and at first, hear a speeding motorbike, then he comes into view, he's flying down the road for no reason, he veers left onto the same road that I just came from 20 seconds ago. No helmet, no turn signal, grossly over any speed limit, no pause or concern in the world at all. As fast as he was going it would have killed me. Correction: No, he probably would not have killed me as I would have been on the far left of the road as I entered the intersection. At said intersection I would have first heard him, looked to my right, and watched in horror as he barreled down and turned/veered onto my street, zooming past me on my right. 

 

[2baht]

1 hour ago, Scott said:

What can be done to improve the safety of roads in Thailand?

At this stage, very little, they've had decades to get their driving practices together but  fatalities and stupidity continue, the roads are good, it's the road users that leave a lot to be desired,  I don't think they really care! 

[spidermike007]

Easy solution. Are they patrolling the highways to find reckless drivers? No. Why? Because they do not care one iota about traffic safety. It is all lip service. The deaths mean nothing to them. 

 

The RTP are a blight on the nation. So are the highway patrol who absolutely refuse to patrol the highways. 

Edited May 12, 2023 by spidermike007

[Lacessit]

I have yet to see, in my 12 years of driving here, any police car that has pulled over another vehicle for a traffic offense. I don't know what can be done to improve road safety, when there is no deterrent apart from the occasional speed camera that actually works.

 

Most people observe speed limits and alcohol laws in Australia, the fines being so punitive.

 

Thailand 32.7 road deaths per 100,000 population, Australia 4.5 road deaths per 100,000. There's your answer.

[Furioso]

23 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Easy solution. Are they patrolling the highways to find reckless drivers? No. Why? Because they do not care one iota about traffic safety. It is all lip service. The deaths mean nothing to them. 

 

The RTP are a blight on the nation. So are the highway patrol who absolutely refuse to patrol the highways. 

You are 100% correct!

[mania]

This is a tough one because

A) Thai drivers are selfish & careless not to mention often drunk & driving without a license

So first off jail these guys period on event. Not listen to one word about brakes failed yada yada yada

 

B) Of course it could be controlled by police presence & large fines but...Thai Police are as corrupt and we all know how this ends. There is a reason they are not allowed to pull along side a car & pull it over. Even the govt knows this. This is why you even see folks speed past a Thai cop car. You would never see that in a western country

 

 

So for now all that can be done is better training/education & stricter punishment if caught or causing a accident due to negligence/alcohol etc etc

 

In the meantime start jailing bad cops...not transfer...jail

Eventually have a police force that is there to serve & protect the public.

[mania]

30 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

The RTP are a blight on the nation. So are the highway patrol who absolutely refuse to patrol the highways. 

It is true they are a blight but they do not refuse to patrol hwy they are not allowed to. (Thanks Gawd as it would be a nice earner for them personally)

They are allowed road block type checks only. The only penalties done on hwy are thru traffic cams

Edited May 12, 2023 by mania

[CharlieH]

Any laws or highway code is pointless and useless without law enforcement.

 

Adequate, meaningful penalties and specific consequences for actions need to be enforced. A 200bt fine is NOT going to do anything as a deterrent.

The state of many vehicles and the ridiculous overloading is well documented. The driving test is totally inadequate.All these factors impact the safety of others.

[bignok]

Between Nong Khai and Mukdahan I saw 1 police car. Good really. Very little traffic.

[KhunLA]

2 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I have yet to see, in my 12 years of driving here, any police car that has pulled over another vehicle for a traffic offense. I don't know what can be done to improve road safety, when there is no deterrent apart from the occasional speed camera that actually works.

 

Most people observe speed limits and alcohol laws in Australia, the fines being so punitive.

 

Thailand 32.7 road deaths per 100,000 population, Australia 4.5 road deaths per 100,000. There's your answer.

I probably get more than most, so I've seen a few vehicles (cars) pulled over.  But yes, very few, as they seem to concentrate more on trucks, and a good thing actually.  

 

Also consider, there are traffic police, usually on scooters, not the trucks, and the highway police, marked cars w/cherry on top, one's I've seen actually working the highways.   

 

I actually got pulled over by a roving traffic officer on a scooter, in town (UT) as I 'did' make a technically illegal U-turn, too early and crossed a solid white line.  I thought a bit picky, but didn't argue.

 

The cameras have slowed me down, not that I was extremely excessive, as 90 kph is kind of slow on the many stretches of highway.  But can't really say I was doing much more than 100 kph, especially in our Vios & Mazda 2.  Not the most comfy ride at speed.

 

If they start enforcing the speed limit, via cameras, and actually follow through with those not paying, I think people will start to slow down on the highways at least.   Though suspect most deaths occur around town, from scooters & no helmets being worn.  So minimal effect on actually death toll.

[KhunLA]

3 minutes ago, bignok said:

Between Nong Khai and Mukdahan I saw 1 police car. Good really. Very little traffic.

Yea, as patrolling along the river road, if the route, would be a waste of resources.  Been a while, but as you say, very little traffic.

[ezzra]

To re-educate Thai drivers will be akin to shifting mountains, and impossible task, what can be done is try to minimize the carnage on the roads, and a person who can achieve that can also turn dust into gold. so for now, it remains as a wishful thinking.

[stoner]

the problem is thai and not the roads. with the education here. the corruption. the acceptance of certain practices. 

 

no hope in any changes .....unless they start with themselves. 

 

good luck with that. 

[Credo]

I've lived and worked in a lot of countries.  I've found that how well or badly people drive is largely dependent on how much law enforcement there is.  The more police around and the better the driving.  

[OneMoreFarang]

1 All of the above.

2 All of the above.

 

IMHO most Thais won't change because they understand that driving drunk or too fast is a bad idea. It seems to me they just don't think about it and don't care.

I heard several times from Thais that a relative or friend just died in an accident, maybe on a bike drunk and without helmet. And does that inspire the people at the funeral to wear helmets? Does it inspire them not to drive or ride drunk? No.

Maybe they will buy another amulet or some flowers for their vehicle for protection.

 

If the traffic police would actually do their jobs and fine people all the time with fines which hurt, then I am sure people would drive better. But they would only do it because they don't want to pay fines and not because they think that changing their driving attitude would be a good idea.

 

 

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, CharlieH said:

A 200bt fine is NOT going to do anything as a deterrent.

I am sure even that would be a deterrent for many - if they would get a fine like that every couple of days.

[Lacessit]

47 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

I probably get more than most, so I've seen a few vehicles (cars) pulled over.  But yes, very few, as they seem to concentrate more on trucks, and a good thing actually.  

 

Also consider, there are traffic police, usually on scooters, not the trucks, and the highway police, marked cars w/cherry on top, one's I've seen actually working the highways.   

 

I actually got pulled over by a roving traffic officer on a scooter, in town (UT) as I 'did' make a technically illegal U-turn, too early and crossed a solid white line.  I thought a bit picky, but didn't argue.

 

The cameras have slowed me down, not that I was extremely excessive, as 90 kph is kind of slow on the many stretches of highway.  But can't really say I was doing much more than 100 kph, especially in our Vios & Mazda 2.  Not the most comfy ride at speed.

 

If they start enforcing the speed limit, via cameras, and actually follow through with those not paying, I think people will start to slow down on the highways at least.   Though suspect most deaths occur around town, from scooters & no helmets being worn.  So minimal effect on actually death toll.

About a year ago, I was fined 500 baht for doing 90 km/hr in Wiang Pa Pao. One of the few speed cameras that actually worked, most don't due to lack of maintenance.

The same offense in Australia would have cost me 17,000 baht, and three demerit points on my license. 10 points, license suspended.

 

The contrast between getting a motorbike license in Australia and one in Thailand could not be more stark. In Australia, I had to answer 40 questions in a written test, then pass a 15 minute practical driving test of various skills. Pass score 35/40. Put one foot down on the track during the practical test, it's a fail.

 

In Thailand, all I had to do was identify the colors of a traffic light. I never even got to see the legendary 30 minute road safety video.

 

I still remember re-training my GF after she had paid for lessons from a Thai driving instructor. Nothing important, just using her rear mirrors to check traffic behind her, and operating the hand-brake for an uphill start.

[KhunLA]

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

About a year ago, I was fined 500 baht for doing 90 km/hr in Wiang Pa Pao. One of the few speed cameras that actually worked, most don't due to lack of maintenance.

The same offense in Australia would have cost me 17,000 baht, and three demerit points on my license. 10 points, license suspended.

 

The contrast between getting a motorbike license in Australia and one in Thailand could not be more stark. In Australia, I had to answer 40 questions in a written test, then pass a 15 minute practical driving test of various skills. Pass score 35/40. Put one foot down on the track during the practical test, it's a fail.

 

In Thailand, all I had to do was identify the colors of a traffic light. I never even got to see the legendary 30 minute road safety video.

 

I still remember re-training my GF after she had paid for lessons from a Thai driving instructor. Nothing important, just using her rear mirrors to check traffic behind her, and operating the hand-brake for an uphill start.

You already had a MB license (assuming), so no need to take the driving part, which I'm assuming simply not falling down.   About the same as some USA states.

 

My first car & mb license here also didn't involve much, since having an IDP for both.

[KannikaP]

14 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

You already had a MB license (assuming), so no need to take the driving part, which I'm assuming simply not falling down.   About the same as some USA states.

 

My first car & mb license here also didn't involve much, since having an IDP for both.

So I guess most Thai drivers have IDPs so they do not have to take the tests!   5555

[KhunLA]

4 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

So I guess most Thai drivers have IDPs so they do not have to take the tests!   5555

You saying Thais don't have to take a 'driving' test ?

 

I actually don't know, and assume they did.  Since I never needed to, or hung around the DLT to see what the locals need to do.

Edited May 13, 2023 by KhunLA

[KannikaP]

4 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

You saying Thais don't have to take a 'driving' test ?

 

I actually don't know, and assume they did.  Since I never needed to, or hung around the DLT to see what the locals need to do.

Of course Thais take a driving test of sorts so your assumption is correct.

In my post to which you are replying, you may notice 5555, which translated into Thai is

Ha ha ha ha.

Edited May 13, 2023 by KannikaP

[NanLaew]

There's an option missing from both questions, as follows.

 

1. Which of these choices do you consider to be the most significant road safety issue?

Lack of law enforcement.

 

All of the options regarding bad driver behavior can be addressed by enforcing he laws. As for the infrastructure, there's nothing majorly wrong with it.

 

2. Which road safety measures do you believe would be most effective in improving safety?

Enforce the laws.

 

Not just the low-hanging fruit of speeding or DUI/DWI laws either. The whole gamut of habitual wrong-way riding, lane discipline, driving without lights and even driving without a license can be impacted by simply enforcing the specific laws that already exist. Drivers education isn't about sitting in classrooms and watching videos either. It's an on-the-job education which is accelerated when offenders are repeatedly stopped fined or otherwise punished for infractions. There's already enough police presence but once again, they're after the low-hanging fruit of helmetless motorbike riders or pulling over heavy trucks for arbitrary inspections on the main highways while ignoring the fast and the reckless in the outer lanes.

[NanLaew]

4 hours ago, KhunLA said:

4 hours ago, bignok said:

Between Nong Khai and Mukdahan I saw 1 police car. Good really. Very little traffic.

Yea, as patrolling along the river road, if the route, would be a waste of resources.  Been a while, but as you say, very little traffic.

Yes, it can depend on the route, road class and how busy it is. For example, on Highway 7 coming from Bangkok, you can see up to half-a-dozen police highway patrol cars.

 

...all parked up at their office where the #7 spur meets Sukhumvit in Pattaya.

[riclag]

4 hours ago, mania said:

This is a tough one because

A) Thai drivers are selfish & careless not to mention often drunk & driving without a license

So first off jail these guys period on event. Not listen to one word about brakes failed yada yada yada

 

B) Of course it could be controlled by police presence & large fines but...Thai Police are as corrupt and we all know how this ends. There is a reason they are not allowed to pull along side a car & pull it over. Even the govt knows this. This is why you even see folks speed past a Thai cop car. You would never see that in a western country

 

 

So for now all that can be done is better training/education & stricter punishment if caught or causing a accident due to negligence/alcohol etc etc

 

In the meantime start jailing bad cops...not transfer...jail

Eventually have a police force that is there to serve & protect the public.

Nail on the head moment 

 

[dingdongrb]

Only reasonable solution:

 

Prohibit all Thais from driving!

[NanLaew]

1 minute ago, dingdongrb said:

Only reasonable solution:

 

Prohibit all Thais from driving!

Great idea. Then we'll be able to deduce from the stats who the arseholiest farang drivers are by nationality.

[Toolong]

I think more roundabouts* incorporated into highway design plans would help alleviate the great number of accidents & fatalities that have happened at U-turns. (And it IS a very great number!)

 

Plus, as stated here already by others, proper enforcement of highway rules (ie, trucks restricted to certain lanes  etc.). 

 

Related to keeping in correct lanes is the bad state of roads. Poor road construction + overloaded trucks = messed up left lanes - where trucks should be - resulting in the same trucks then using the other lanes to avoid the bad road surface that they've caused in the left lanes!