Military-backed senators refuse to back MFP form a government

[John Drake]

3 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Apparently you not here in 2020-2021 student and youth demonstrations when numbers were 20,000-100,000 and water cannons were used. The Gen Z demonstrations were confronted by the police, stood the grounds and fought street battles. Didn't melt away as you alleged. 

They did, actually. That was their primary tactic, to disrupt, fade away, and reappear. They copied it from their sympathizers in Hong Kong (didn't work too well for HKers either, btw). The type of street conflicts so many are now calling for will require long term occupation and control of territory--as the red shirts did in 2010. Personally, I doubt that is possible. More of their hit and run strategy to be sure. But that will fade away. After all, it faded away in 2021, didn't it?

[sidneybear]

8 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Apparently you not here in 2020-2021 student and youth demonstrations when numbers were 20,000-100,000 and water cannons were used. The Gen Z demonstrations were confronted by the police, stood the grounds and fought street battles. Didn't melt away as you alleged. 

So where are they now? Fact is, they were supressed. 

[MrMojoRisin]

9 hours ago, sidneybear said:

Good for these senators. They value Thailand's culture, traditions and heritage. I hope they block this progressive disease, and if they don't then others will.

Democracy has just dealt the death blow to the disease Thailand has been inflicted with, time to celebrate.

[sidneybear]

6 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Democracy has just dealt the death blow to the disease Thailand has been inflicted with, time to celebrate.

So you keep saying. And we've agreed elsewhere that time will tell, which stands to reason. Is there any other point you'd like to put forward, or is that all for now? 

 

Edited May 17, 2023 by sidneybear

[sidneybear]

12 minutes ago, John Drake said:

They did, actually. That was their primary tactic, to disrupt, fade away, and reappear. They copied it from their sympathizers in Hong Kong (didn't work too well for HKers either, btw). The type of street conflicts so many are now calling for will require long term occupation and control of territory--as the red shirts did in 2010. Personally, I doubt that is possible. More of their hit and run strategy to be sure. But that will fade away. After all, it faded away in 2021, didn't it?

Another good observation. Hit and run doesn't work because the authorities infiltrate social networking. 

[Eric Loh]

3 minutes ago, John Drake said:

They did, actually. That was their primary tactic, to disrupt, fade away, and reappear. They copied it from their sympathizers in Hong Kong (didn't work too well for HKers either, btw). The type of street conflicts so many are now calling for will require long term occupation and control of territory--as the red shirts did in 2010. Personally, I doubt that is possible. More of their hit and run strategy to be sure. But that will fade away. After all, it faded away in 2021, didn't it?

You cordone the brutalising of youth and student protesters and unwarranted arrests and charges? The youth had their day and didn't fade away in the 2023 election; didn't they. They ignited the dissent for the military government and voted them out. 

[Dario]

Seeing the impasse with the 250 senators who would not approve a Move Forward government, in my humble meaning there is only one thing which could, and I think, will happen:

Peu Thai will not side with the Move Forward party. They will form their own coalition together with Bhumjai Thai (Anutin), Palang Pracharat (Prawit Wongsuwan) and United Thai Nation party (Prayut), maybe some others as well. That would push Pita into the opposition.

This might also explain why Anutin has not made his moves yet.

I might be wrong, but I think I'm not. Time will tell.

Edited May 17, 2023 by Dario

[Eric Loh]

12 minutes ago, sidneybear said:

So where are they now? Fact is, they were supressed. 

They had their day in the election and won. . 

[Pink Mist]

The bickering, off-topic, baiting, grammar police, and name calling posts have been removed.  If you cannot stay civil your posting will be curtailed.

[Mavideol]

3 minutes ago, Dario said:

Seeing the impasse with the 250 senators who would not approve a Move Forward government, in my humble meaning there is only one thing which could, and I think, will happen:

Peu Thai will not side with the Move Forward party. They will form their own coalition together with Bhumjai Thai (Anutin), Palang Pracharat (Prawit Wongsuwan) and United Thai Nation party (Prayut), maybe some others as well. That would push Pita into the opposition.

This might also explain why Anutin has not made his moves yet.

I might be wrong, but I think I'm not. Time will tell.

if that's what will happen, means nothing really changed and the "dinosauros" are still governing... blood will be spelt

[John Drake]

1 minute ago, Eric Loh said:

You cordone the brutalising of youth and student protesters and unwarranted arrests and charges? The youth had their day and didn't fade away in the 2023 election; didn't they. They ignited the dissent for the military government and voted them out. 

Hysteria and hyperbole. I haven't said a single thing about just which party or coalition I want to see win. I have said repeatedly that I do not think there will be a revolution or civil war. And I think the people predicting it are being irresponsible. I greatly doubt the ability of this group to acquire the resources to achieve anything more than the street protests they made in 2021. But there are some things I even agree with them on. About taking an anti-China stance, for example--something I bet you're not happy with at all. I also think that the only person who has demonstrated a long term capacity to make money for Thailand is Thaksin. At any rate, I don't have a vote in any of this. I have an opinion. But I keep it to myself. I don't go electioneering on message boards because 1) it's not a smart thing to do and 2) ultimately I don't have enough knowledge or experience to match Thai citizens who do have the right to vote and make a decision that best reflects their interest. 

[paul1804]

Did anyone expect anything different from the generals, I guess this is Thailand at the crossroads, do they want to end up being anything like their neighbouring Burma where the military want total control or do they want a proper democracy where the majority vote has the say. 

[eisfeld]

48 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Perhaps the right time to abolish the Senate as a constitutional reform. THailand had unicameral system before. 

So I've went and read the Constitution of Thailand which refers to the "Organic Act on Installation of Senators" (Part 3, Section 107). In there, it actually lays out an elaborate system for Senators to apply and be selected on various levels from national, Amphoe etc. Interestingly enough a Senator can only ever serve one term which means next year the complete Senate will be changed. The new senators are not selected by the military. This has the potential to have a big impact on how the Senate will act from there on out.

 

I highly suggest for interested people who want to understand more about the structures of Thailands state to read these two documents:

 

Constitution: https://www.ect.go.th/ect_en/download/article/article_20210806135650.pdf

Organic Act on Installation of Senators: https://www.ect.go.th/ect_en/download/article/article_20210806135906.pdf

 

 

[onthedarkside]

A trolling post making derogatory statements about the youth that supported the party that won the election has been removed

[n00dle]

On 5/16/2023 at 11:51 AM, Crossy said:

Is anyone even slightly surprised?

being surprised would be very silly given that everyone knows this is exactly why the junta stacked the senate in the first place. 

[Artisi]

1 hour ago, sidneybear said:

So where are they now? Fact is, they were supressed. 

Probably many of the ones who voted for the forward party, so they weren't supressed, just bided their time. 

[MrMojoRisin]

1 hour ago, sidneybear said:

So you keep saying. And we've agreed elsewhere that time will tell, which stands to reason. Is there any other point you'd like to put forward, or is that all for now? 

 

Not saying, responding.

I think there is value in correcting falsehoods at the earliest available opportunity lest the cancer be allowed to spread.

[Eric Loh]

1 hour ago, eisfeld said:

So I've went and read the Constitution of Thailand which refers to the "Organic Act on Installation of Senators" (Part 3, Section 107). In there, it actually lays out an elaborate system for Senators to apply and be selected on various levels from national, Amphoe etc. Interestingly enough a Senator can only ever serve one term which means next year the complete Senate will be changed. The new senators are not selected by the military. This has the potential to have a big impact on how the Senate will act from there on out.

 

I highly suggest for interested people who want to understand more about the structures of Thailands state to read these two documents:

 

Constitution: https://www.ect.go.th/ect_en/download/article/article_20210806135650.pdf

Organic Act on Installation of Senators: https://www.ect.go.th/ect_en/download/article/article_20210806135906.pdf

 

 

Worthy reading. The Constitution Transitional Provision (2019) for senate is a good read for interested people. Spelt out the senate term and which body responsible for their appointment. 

https://www.senate.go.th/assets/portals/1/fileups/419/files/senate Eng.pdf

[candide]

1 hour ago, eisfeld said:

So I've went and read the Constitution of Thailand which refers to the "Organic Act on Installation of Senators" (Part 3, Section 107). In there, it actually lays out an elaborate system for Senators to apply and be selected on various levels from national, Amphoe etc. Interestingly enough a Senator can only ever serve one term which means next year the complete Senate will be changed. The new senators are not selected by the military. This has the potential to have a big impact on how the Senate will act from there on out.

 

I highly suggest for interested people who want to understand more about the structures of Thailands state to read these two documents:

 

Constitution: https://www.ect.go.th/ect_en/download/article/article_20210806135650.pdf

Organic Act on Installation of Senators: https://www.ect.go.th/ect_en/download/article/article_20210806135906.pdf

 

 

 

27 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Worthy reading. The Constitution Transitional Provision (2019) for senate is a good read for interested people. Spelt out the senate term and which body responsible for their appointment. 

https://www.senate.go.th/assets/portals/1/fileups/419/files/senate Eng.pdf

Thank you for this link, I was too lazy to find it by myself. However, will the establishment stack the Senate with its own people, as it did under the 2007 constitution?

 

I had a look at the document. It is very detailed about how Senators should be selected,  but seems to be mute about how the members of the selection committee will be appointed (unless I missed it in the document).

 

(My first remark about the composition of the committees, is the dominance of civil servants. Traditionally, high level civil servants have been pro-establishment).

 

Edited May 17, 2023 by candide

[Sunderland]

2 hours ago, Dario said:

Seeing the impasse with the 250 senators who would not approve a Move Forward government, in my humble meaning there is only one thing which could, and I think, will happen:

Peu Thai will not side with the Move Forward party. They will form their own coalition together with Bhumjai Thai (Anutin), Palang Pracharat (Prawit Wongsuwan) and United Thai Nation party (Prayut), maybe some others as well. That would push Pita into the opposition.

This might also explain why Anutin has not made his moves yet.

I might be wrong, but I think I'm not. Time will tell.

This is a distinct possibility which will also spell the end of Pheu Thai in the next general election. The Democrats are finished after siding with Prayuth, Prawit and the rest. The same will happen to Pheu Thai. Move Forward did well in the party list vote even in areas dominated by Pheu Thai and Bhumjaithai.

[bannork]

13 minutes ago, Sunderland said:

This is a distinct possibility which will also spell the end of Pheu Thai in the next general election. The Democrats are finished after siding with Prayuth, Prawit and the rest. The same will happen to Pheu Thai. Move Forward did well in the party list vote even in areas dominated by Pheu Thai and Bhumjaithai.

Not only in the party list, MF won some constituencies in Chiang Mai, Issan and around Bangkok, ie Samut Prakan and Chonburi, previously dominated by local clans.

If PT side with the dinosaurs, their future will be the same.

 

[OKF]

11 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Because the senate is under the transitory provision of the Constitution and the term expiry are clearly determined. Also the Constitution provision state that the National Council for Peace and Order (NCPO) will select and install the senate. NCPO has been dissolved. There is no provision provided for another body to select and install the senate. Technically, there no provision to rid any senators.  

cannot be said often enough here, for everybody to understand. Pita can sit back and wait

[it is what it is]

 

Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…

WSC

[eisfeld]

 

11 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Worthy reading. The Constitution Transitional Provision (2019) for senate is a good read for interested people. Spelt out the senate term and which body responsible for their appointment. 

https://www.senate.go.th/assets/portals/1/fileups/419/files/senate Eng.pdf

Yes, though it speaks mostly of the transitory rules. The way I understand it after reading the constitution and the Organic Act on Installation of Senators is that the NCPO is only involved in selecting the initial 250 senators (section 269, which starts with "During the initial period...") and after that (5 years) the Organic Act takes over (section 107 in the constitution).

 

PS: fun fact, the english translation of the constitution mentions a "Organic Act on Installation of Senators" while the actual law calls itself "Organic Act on the Acquisition of Senators". I wonder if the original Thai version has a similar mismatch? Probably just a translation issue.

Edited May 17, 2023 by eisfeld

[MrMojoRisin]

13 hours ago, Dario said:

Seeing the impasse with the 250 senators who would not approve a Move Forward government, in my humble meaning there is only one thing which could, and I think, will happen:

Peu Thai will not side with the Move Forward party. They will form their own coalition together with Bhumjai Thai (Anutin), Palang Pracharat (Prawit Wongsuwan) and United Thai Nation party (Prayut), maybe some others as well. That would push Pita into the opposition.

This might also explain why Anutin has not made his moves yet.

I might be wrong, but I think I'm not. Time will tell.

No need to wait, you are wrong.

[Pink Mist]

A troll post has been removed.

[Henryford]

Fairly obvious. One of the first things Pita would do, quite rightly, is sack all the 250 Senators so there were never going to vote for him.

[spidermike007]

As stated in a related post I am glad Pita is calling out these guys. He is absolutely correct. But, the people might need to take charge now. 

These senators need to be declared enemies of the state. A list of their names and photos needs to be circulated. The people need to call them and their children, siblings, and parents out at work, at school, at restaurants, and in public.

 

Shame them into submission. Make their lives so uncomfortable they quit a year early. It just might work. 

[connda]

Let me guess.  Eventually these senators will urge the military to come back in to form the government because Thailand's experiment with 'democracy' didn't work because the previous military junta stacked the deck?  Just guessing.....

[marin]

7 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

These senators need to be declared enemies of the state. A list of their names and photos needs to be circulated. The people need to call them and their children, siblings, and parents out at work, at school, at restaurants, and in public.

 

Shame them into submission. Make their lives so uncomfortable they quit a year early. It just might work. 

As I posted yesterday being done as I type via social media. Line and Twitter in particular, Once the details have been gathered photos and text will be shared on FB and Instagram. These senators have absolutely no idea of the power of social media today.