31% of Thais eye battery electric vehicles as next car choice

[Chongalulu]

An electric motor is superior in every respect to an ICE. However for the moment the reverse is true for their respective "fuels " ,the energy density of fossil fuels is many orders of magnitude greater than current batteries with All the drawbacks that entails. So for now I wouldn’t buy BEV as I see current incarnations becoming expensively outdated if battery technology progresses as it will have to to oust ICE vehicles. 
A decent hybrid is most likely the current answer for those buying now. A very good example is Honda CRV hybrid which I’m interested in. However ,visits to 2 dealers are quoting'next year' for delivery, both only having petrol turbo as physical demonstration . Have any CRV hybrids actually appeared in thailand? 

[BritManToo]

21 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

A recent survey by Deloitte Thailand revealed that 31% of Thai consumers are likely to opt for a battery electric vehicle (BEV) as their next car,

Surprised 30% of Thais could afford a s/h scooter let alone a car that costs more than their house.

[BritManToo]

4 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Electric has gone up about 20%, if that, since I've been here/23 yrs.

Petrol has more than doubled, from ฿14 to ฿35 ... hmm

 

Has only gone up, with the increase of fossil fuels.

When I arrived in 2009 petrol for my scooter was 33bht/ltr, today I paid 35bht/ltr.

That's a 7% rise in 14 years.

[ignis]

2 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

Sounds like your friend in the UK is a right plonker. Does he not know how to do research or possess any common sense?

Maybe ask his Boss as it is a Company car

[h90]

3 hours ago, James105 said:

I'll be in the 10% of laggards on this!   I think putting all the eggs in the EV basket is a bit of a mistake as battery technology is probably decades behind where it needs to be to make EVs a viable option for the majority.   It's a bit of a shame all this investment was not spent making what we currently use better and letting EVs naturally replace this as and when battery tech becomes genuinely viable.  

 

The car replaced the horse and cart as clearly it was better than what came before.   EVs will replace ICE when they become better than what was before in terms of distance between charges and convenience, such as being able to charge it in the equivalent time as filling a car with petrol.  Currently EVs are the equivalent of the horse and cart for most people as it is less convenient than a petrol car.  

The first cars you had to buy the fuel in pharmacies in some cities you need someone who walk in front of you and the engine needed a lot of service and was difficult to drive....You had 1-2 staff for that. Staff that was way more expensive than one that takes care of horses.
When you waited a few years cars were pretty easy.

[h90]

3 hours ago, KhunLA said:

That sucks.  Another reason to stay clear of Volvo.

It is a shame beside the plastic parts it would run still perfectly after 30 years.....but the electric is beyond fixable (if you don't do a complete rebuild)

[vinny41]

3 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

Absolutely correct. Plonkers should drive ICEs. Let the smarter ones like us drive EVs and laugh all way to the bank and our destination. 1 baht per km, less if TOU, less is solar, free for me when I charge at my local free CS ????

Why can charging an electric car be more expensive than petrol, diesel or hybrids?

https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/new-and-used-cars/article/electric-car-charging-guide/how-much-does-it-cost-to-charge-an-electric-car-a8f4g1o7JzXj

 

There is no one solution that meets everyone requirements some people live in condos or flats where there are no facilities for charging.

as this report shows depending on location and where you charge and how efficient your ev battery is or isn't it can cost more to run an EV than a similar ICE vehicle

Edited May 25, 2023 by vinny41
add

[Denim]

Meanwhile , 69% of rural farmers are looking for something that will either run on Lao Khao or have it coming out the exhaust pipe.

 

When I was a kid I had an eco friendly car with zero emissions.

Never again. Alright downhill but up hill....forget it.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 25, 2023 by Denim

[h90]

1 minute ago, Denim said:

Meanwhile , 69% of rural farmers are looking for something that will either run on Lao Khao or have it coming out the exhaust pipe.

you can run ice on alcohol, even on bad alcohol. It has less power than gasoline but for Lao Khao it is better to put it into the engine than into the stomach....equal harmful for both

[Gweiloman]

1 hour ago, ignis said:

Maybe ask his Boss as it is a Company car

Sounds like his Boss is dimmer than him, giving an EV to an employee who doesn’t have the ability to charge at home.

[ignis]

We heard for years go Green  = LPG/NGV/CNG is ENVIRONMENTALLY FRIENDLY

 

LPG/NGV/CNG  is one of the cleanest fuels available

 

yet suddenly it is all about EV now. even the Gas Fill up station near me has now gone..

 

Why ? what happened ?

[KhunLA]

38 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Why can charging an electric car be more expensive than petrol, diesel or hybrids?

https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/new-and-used-cars/article/electric-car-charging-guide/how-much-does-it-cost-to-charge-an-electric-car-a8f4g1o7JzXj

 

There is no one solution that meets everyone requirements some people live in condos or flats where there are no facilities for charging.

as this report shows depending on location and where you charge and how efficient your ev battery is or isn't it can cost more to run an EV than a similar ICE vehicle

Most of the pro-EV'ers on this forum are in TH, where it is way cheaper, to operate an EV vs petrol vehicle.  Buy in cost now, can be the same, or even cheaper than most, same class ICEs, so that's not a reason any more.

 

<฿5 / kWh from home, or even ฿8 / kWh at a CS, and still cheaper, though convenience, obviously depends on your location, and patience level.  If having solar, then pluses all around.

 

Of course, EVs aren't for everyone, that's been established, and nobody disputes that.

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

When I arrived in 2009 petrol for my scooter was 33bht/ltr, today I paid 35bht/ltr.

That's a 7% rise in 14 years.

Was 14 ish baht when I got here (2000), up to 36, then back to 16, up to 42, now at 35 ish.  

 

Electric has been consistent, 3.7 ish to now 4.2 maybe, depending on kWh used.

 

On another forum I did a cost of living post, 2006/7/8, may look it up, to see actual #s.

[Gweiloman]

47 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Why can charging an electric car be more expensive than petrol, diesel or hybrids?

https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/new-and-used-cars/article/electric-car-charging-guide/how-much-does-it-cost-to-charge-an-electric-car-a8f4g1o7JzXj

 

There is no one solution that meets everyone requirements some people live in condos or flats where there are no facilities for charging.

as this report shows depending on location and where you charge and how efficient your ev battery is or isn't it can cost more to run an EV than a similar ICE vehicle

Naturally, if it costs me more to run an EV than an ICE, I would not go for an EV. That is however not the case where I live, in Thailand, in a landed property with a car porch and solar on my roof.

 

It was also much cheaper to run an EV in the UK until Richie Sanook started running the UK into the ground with electricity rates spiralling out of control. Even then, those in the UK who can charge at home are still saving money over their ICE compatriots.

[vinny41]

4 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

Sounds like your friend in the UK is a right plonker. Does he not know how to do research or possess any common sense?

 

4 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

Naturally, if it costs me more to run an EV than an ICE, I would not go for an EV. That is however not the case where I live, in Thailand, in a landed property with a car porch and solar on my roof.

 

It was also much cheaper to run an EV in the UK until Richie Sanook started running the UK into the ground with electricity rates spiralling out of control. Even then, those in the UK who can charge at home are still saving money over their ICE compatriots.

But you were calling someone out from the UK by referring to them as Plonkers its funny a few years ago the pro-betamax brigade used to call the VHS  brigade the same names since betamax at the time was the superior technology when compared to VHS

[Gweiloman]

6 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Was 14 ish baht when I got here (2000), up to 36, then back to 16, up to 42, now at 35 ish.  

 

Electric has been consistent, 3.7 ish to now 4.2 maybe, depending on kWh used.

 

On another forum I did a cost of living post, 2006/7/8, may look it up, to see actual #s.

The way I see it, in Thailand, running an EV will always be cheaper than ICE (servicing and maintenance charges aside). Lots of poor people can’t afford cars or the costs of operating a car but must continuously consume electricity. Thus the government is compelled to provide electricity at an affordable cost. 
 

In fact, I’m thankful for the anti-EVers for their continued resistance to EVs as this reduces consumption of electricity in Thailand which will help to keep prices low for the rest of us.

[KhunLA]

3 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

In fact, I’m thankful for the anti-EVers for their continued resistance to EVs as this reduces consumption of electricity in Thailand which will help to keep prices low for the rest of us.

Agree and will also keep the ratio of EV / CS in the EV's favor, when out & about. 

 

win win

 

Along with a good chuckle, reading some of their silliness.

Edited May 25, 2023 by KhunLA

[Gweiloman]

3 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

 

But you were calling someone out from the UK by referring to them as Plonkers its funny a few years ago the pro-betamax brigade used to call the VHS  brigade the same names since betamax at the time was the superior technology when compared to VHS

Yes. The boss is obviously a plonker for giving an EV to an employee who is unable to charge at home. The employee is also a plonker for running the battery down to a level that he had to call for roadside assistance.

 

In my 10 years or so living in the UK, I came across a lot of plonkers, although not as many as in Thailand.

[KannikaP]

6 hours ago, KhunLA said:

And yet, the Neta V comes in cheaper than all entry level Toyota & Mazda cars, so nothing to recover.

 

I charge my EV with 'excess' solar, so no added cost to our system to charge the EV.  IF paying for energy via grid, its <฿230 @ ฿5/kWh for 360 kms vs ฿900 for ICE version @ ฿35/L

Silly post from me. Deleted.

[James105]

13 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

Naturally, if it costs me more to run an EV than an ICE, I would not go for an EV. That is however not the case where I live, in Thailand, in a landed property with a car porch and solar on my roof.

 

It was also much cheaper to run an EV in the UK until Richie Sanook started running the UK into the ground with electricity rates spiralling out of control. Even then, those in the UK who can charge at home are still saving money over their ICE compatriots.

I can't believe I am about to defend Sunak, but it's not his fault.   Here is deputy PM Nick Clegg back in 2010 saying how it's pointless building new nuclear power stations as they would not come online until about 2021/2022 (from about 7:00 minutes) and how he would veto any public spending on them.   It's short term thinking from clowns like this that has caused the energy issue in the UK today.   

 

 

[Gknrd]

17 hours ago, BenStark said:

It will be many years before they have recovered the extra they pay for the car in reduced fuel expenses.

 

The same BS propaganda about my electricity is free because I have solar panels.

 

Well yeah, as soon as they have recovered the cost of the installation after 10 years, and it all still works as promised.

I am living in the sun belt. I installed a high efficient A/C and good widows. Put sun shades up. I am all electric. My electric company has a page that compares all the homes in my area. I am always at or below the most efficient homes. 

[KhunLA]

18 hours ago, BenStark said:

It will be many years before they have recovered the extra they pay for the car in reduced fuel expenses.

 

The same BS propaganda about my electricity is free because I have solar panels.

 

Well yeah, as soon as they have recovered the cost of the installation after 10 years, and it all still works as promised.

EV vs ICE buy in is now the same, no extra cost in TH.

 

Solar of course is a wide variable, but I expect ROI in 5 to 10 yrs, and probably mid or short side of that.

 

I expect the car to be our last, and easy get 20 yrs out of it, unless an oops, which I'm not foreseeing.  With many more kms to go after that, if the rest of the car holds up beyond the motors & battery pack.   

 

If not, battery pack gets moved to the solar system, and she'll figure something out for the motors, or simply go to 2nd hand market.

Edited May 25, 2023 by KhunLA

[BenStark]

1 hour ago, Gknrd said:

I am living in the sun belt. I installed a high efficient A/C and good widows. Put sun shades up. I am all electric. My electric company has a page that compares all the homes in my area. I am always at or below the most efficient homes. 

Do you mean you got solar installed, and it was all free?

[BenStark]

7 hours ago, KhunLA said:

And yet, the Neta V comes in cheaper than all entry level Toyota & Mazda cars, so nothing to recover.

 

I charge my EV with 'excess' solar, so no added cost to our system to charge the EV.  IF paying for energy via grid, its <฿230 @ ฿5/kWh for 360 kms vs ฿900 for ICE version @ ฿35/L

After your glorious comments I was ready to go buy such a Neta V, luckily i read a review first.

 

Top speed 110 Km/h, that is not cruise speed, no it is TOP speed the car can do.

 

And you will even not want to do that, because above 80 km/h the suspension shows some issues.

 

If you have to slow down at a traffic light, and in the last few meters it switches to green, then you are in for a lot of pain, because the motor stalls. Not sometimes, no EVERY time.

 

Manufacturer says 360 km with a full battery, though the test shows a bit different, and when battery is empty it takes EIGHT hours to fully charge again. My truck does double the km's and doesn't even take 8  minutes to fill up.

 

So in short, a 1000 km trip to Phuket will take you 3 days, of which 16 hours only to charge.

 

It's all in the test, have a look.

 

https://thailand.postsen.com/business/40554/Review-of-the-new-NETA-V-a-100--electric-car-worth-more-than-expected-at-a-price-of-549000-baht.html

 

Oh, and then we aren't done yet.

 

Turns out the company sells the car with a loss, and not a small one.

 

They lose 100.000 baht on each car produced. Wonder how that will work out in a few years, when the company has gone bankrupt, and you need warranty.

 

https://pandaily.com/chinese-ev-firm-neta-auto-questioned-about-exaggerated-deliveries/

 

Now I don't know with the Neta V, but with a Tesla, simple spare parts that have nothing to do with the performance of the car, like for example a mirror or a trunk lid cost at least 4 times that of an ICE car. Reason also why insurance premium for electric cars in the US is easily double that of a same value ICE car.

 

On second thought, I'll keep my truck

[KhunLA]

25 minutes ago, BenStark said:

On second thought, I'll keep my truck

And what truck and cost of, would that be ?

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, BenStark said:

After your glorious comments I was ready to go buy such a Neta V, luckily i read a review first.

 

Top speed 110 Km/h, that is not cruise speed, no it is TOP speed the car can do.

 

And you will even not want to do that, because above 80 km/h the suspension shows some issues.

 

If you have to slow down at a traffic light, and in the last few meters it switches to green, then you are in for a lot of pain, because the motor stalls. Not sometimes, no EVERY time.

 

Manufacturer says 360 km with a full battery, though the test shows a bit different, and when battery is empty it takes EIGHT hours to fully charge again. My truck does double the km's and doesn't even take 8  minutes to fill up.

 

So in short, a 1000 km trip to Phuket will take you 3 days, of which 16 hours only to charge.

 

It's all in the test, have a look.

 

https://thailand.postsen.com/business/40554/Review-of-the-new-NETA-V-a-100--electric-car-worth-more-than-expected-at-a-price-of-549000-baht.html

 

Oh, and then we aren't done yet.

 

Turns out the company sells the car with a loss, and not a small one.

 

They lose 100.000 baht on each car produced. Wonder how that will work out in a few years, when the company has gone bankrupt, and you need warranty.

 

https://pandaily.com/chinese-ev-firm-neta-auto-questioned-about-exaggerated-deliveries/

 

Now I don't know with the Neta V, but with a Tesla, simple spare parts that have nothing to do with the performance of the car, like for example a mirror or a trunk lid cost at least 4 times that of an ICE car. Reason also why insurance premium for electric cars in the US is easily double that of a same value ICE car.

 

On second thought, I'll keep my truck

Final opinion, last statement of the review above:

"But when compared to the selling price of only 549,000 baht, I believe that NETA V can provide better value for money than a combustion vehicle in the same price range."

[BenStark]

9 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Final opinion, last statement of the review above:

"But when compared to the selling price of only 549,000 baht, I believe that NETA V can provide better value for money than a combustion vehicle in the same price range."

Cherry picking a single sentence out of a very lengthy review everyone can do.

 

It wouldn't even surprise if Sanook was paid for the review, and the final sentence was their guarantee to get paid.

 

With the many disadvantages, which they all summed up and probably still missed some, it begs a question how they still can call it value for money.

 

Only for this I wouldn't want the car for free.

 

Another symptom seen in NETA V is the moment when the car is close to a complete standstill. There will be a headache almost every time. Imagine that you are stepping on the brakes to slow down to a red light. As soon as the speed drops to 1-2 km/h, the electric motor cuts off the power stubbornly. causing head pains to go forward every time or even a sluggish discharge according to traffic congestion When the car is close to a complete stop, there will be headaches every time. which the symptoms that this is not very serious But when driving in the harsh traffic conditions every day It can create quite a bit of frustration.

 

https://thailand.postsen.com/business/40554/Review-of-the-new-NETA-V-a-100--electric-car-worth-more-than-expected-at-a-price-of-549000-baht.html

Edited May 25, 2023 by BenStark

[BritManToo]

3 hours ago, James105 said:

I can't believe I am about to defend Sunak, but it's not his fault.   Here is deputy PM Nick Clegg back in 2010 saying how it's pointless building new nuclear power stations as they would not come online until about 2021/2022 (from about 7:00 minutes) and how he would veto any public spending on them.   It's short term thinking from clowns like this that has caused the energy issue in the UK today.   

 

It's actually the 'green energy' brigade pushing up UK electricity prices.

Windmills and solar require huge subsidies.

[Gknrd]

3 hours ago, BenStark said:

Do you mean you got solar installed, and it was all free?

No, I passed on solar. I got a quote, but with 10 year pay back and with my electric bill being only 63 dollars last month I cannot see the advantage. Plus I would have to put on a new roof before the panels went up. Don't want the hassles.

[Bday Prang]

out of interest how does the use of air conditioning affect the ranges quoted for  Ev's