Ownership nightmare: British buyer’s 15 million baht condo purchase in Koh Samui hits legal roadblock

[scottiejohn]

5 hours ago, Nip said:

as I heard a Judge say in court to a man who carried out full diligence : ‘And you trusted a Thai lawyer? That was your second biggest mistake’There isn’t a document in Thailand that can’t have a forged signature on it and a Thai lawyer who will witness it. When you have a system and people operating it only to happy and willing to abuse it especially where a foreigner is involved.

And of course you have a source(s) for this apparently "verbatim" quote?

Please include the country, era and crime etc!

[SGD]

15 hours ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

I understand people who have no money, no other options, they always make excuses not to buy.

 

I live in a gated community, close to town. I bought my first house 2001, second house a couple of years later, me and my family have been living in this house ever since (renting out the first house). 

I've calculated, rents and renovations etc. I'm way ahead, house price has increased, so have rents over the last 2 decades.

 

I'd hate to think how many times me and my family would have had to relocate over the many years (landlord issues etc.) plus I've got the house exactly how I want it. 

They are the same people who don't have a car and despite 30+ years of car ownership back home, they say it is not necessary and a frigging scooter is enough, until they have an accident, for which they have no insurance.

 

They always have an excuse to hide the fact that they shouldn't be an "expat" as they don't have enough money.

 

[harry94]

Alien in my passport fact of life , i brought it up because it is Thailands way of telling you where you stand , i have been here thirteen years so why would i be angry . I dont visit bars because i avoid people like you ,

Also i am not your mate ,

[spidermike007]

6 hours ago, paddypower said:

there's a quote from County Tipperary, about that: ''bring a shotgun and a shovel''. ????  Unfortunately, the Brit scarpered off back to England, leaving many Phuket investors behind, empty handed. The other problem is that, in Thailand,  it is all about not losing face. There are many reports about property scams/crooks. But, ask yourself - when has the Bangkok Post ever done an expose?

Nothing. They do no investigative work. Ever. 

 

I would have tracked down the scoundrel. For that kind of money, you do what needs to be done. Enough persuasion, and most will succumb to pressure. 

Edited June 2, 2023 by spidermike007

[SAFETY FIRST]

13 minutes ago, harry94 said:

Also i am not your mate ,

Oh, don't be like that. ????

 

14 minutes ago, harry94 said:

i have been here thirteen years so why would i be angry

I know a couple of foreigners that have been living in Thailand for 30 years, very angry guys. 

 

[JustAnotherHun]

4 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

3rd rule in real estate, never buy in Thailand.

This wannabe rule is BS.

Yes, there is more scamming in the Thai property market than in Europe or other so called first-world-countries.

But on the other hand you have thousands of foreigners who baught and still buy property here without bad experience.

I would not buy a home here because of the restrictments for expats, but condos are a different thing.

 

"rent, don't buy"...hrhrhr.

Let's calculate:

I bought my condo end of 2009. The price rose around 100% by now. A good luck plus is that I bought for 51 Euros/Baht. If I'd sell today, I would have lived for free and even had a not so bad interest rate to my investment.

If I had rented, I would have payed around 8 million THB until now.

 

Sure not all, but many of the "rent don't buy"-sayers do not really have the choice, I guess.

 

[racket]

Before you even think about buying property in Thailand, it is crucial to educate yourself with two essential books.

 

These books are:

1. "Buying Property in Thailand: Essential Guide" by Rodney Waller
2. "Pattaya Property and Thailand's Real Estate - How to Buy Thai Condominiums, Apartments, Homes & Villas" by Nick Pendrell

You can find these books on Amazon. It is essential to invest time in proper education and research. Never let FOMO push you into purchasing anything in Thailand until you are absolutely certain that the property is legitimate and secure.

 

Keep in mind that corruption exists throughout the country, and foreigners have often fallen victim to scams like these for many years. Despite numerous complaints against such practices, it is disheartening to see that the authorities in Thailand have taken no action to address this issue.

 

This lack of action speaks volumes.

Edited June 2, 2023 by racket

[schvonsky1]

20 hours ago, MadMuhammad said:

Moral of the story is do your due diligence and don’t be a goose 

 

Correct 

[CartagenaWarlock]

22 hours ago, Chicksaw said:

Moral of the story: Rent, don't buy. At least not anything bigger than a washing machine.

I also don't understand the fascination of buying properties using cash at the late age of 70!. People buying properties for personal use or as an investment using mortgages I understand. 

Edited June 2, 2023 by CartagenaWarlock

[Elkski]

23 hours ago, Chicksaw said:

Moral of the story: Rent, don't buy. At least not anything bigger than a washing machine.

How much do washing machines weigh?  <48kg?

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, SGD said:

They are the same people who don't have a car and despite 30+ years of car ownership back home, they say it is not necessary and a frigging scooter is enough, until they have an accident, for which they have no insurance.

Too wet and cold to drive a scooter in the UK.

In Thailand it's always warm, and a scooter can easily get through traffic and you can park anywhere.

[SAFETY FIRST]

4 minutes ago, CartagenaWarlock said:

buying properties using cash at the late age of 70

It was many years ago.

 

He was around early 60's when he bought the 2 condos. 

 

[geisha]

17 hours ago, Captain Monday said:

This Englisher is a fool who should be scorned and ridiculed.

 

You should be scorned and ridiculed!

[roo860]

17 hours ago, Captain Monday said:

This Englisher is a fool who should be scorned and ridiculed.

 

Englisher? ????????????????

[bumpkin]

For that amount of money, one could stay a few times a year in a high quality hotel.    

[Banana7]

7 hours ago, farang9392 said:

I can't see how this is a practical expectation - just shifting the trust,  what if the shoe is on the other foot? whats the advice for a seller? If I'm seller than I'm reluctant to hand over the chanote and blue book until I've got the cash or banks draft in my hand firmly, old Somchai ain't nipping to the car to get the draft or doing something shifty with the docs.  I'm reminded of those that talk about COD and inspecting the product thoroughly before handing over the cash, as if the Shopee guy is going to allow you to rip open the outer box, break open the packaging and plug in your new Samsung S30 phone and boot it up to ensure its not some fake brick.. i wonder if they just spout this without having actually tried it.. I'm not saying it's not a good idea but if I'm on the other side then Id be focusing on covering my own a...  and won't be taking all the risk. Ideally I'd be hoping the land office does the escrow somehow

This is a good point. The seller should qualify the buyer before entering into a purchase and sale agreement. Ask to see proof buyer has the funds, and also their government issued ID and anything else that may be required to successfully complete the transaction. Match the ID to bank book name at a minimum.

 

The buyer should obtain the final payment bank draft several days before the closing date. Note that a foreign buyer must have documentary proof, which must be provided to the land office, that the purchase funds were transferred from outside Thailand. I am not sure if the transfer amount is the purchase price or the land office valuation of the property.

 

Buyer makes several photo copies of the bank draft. A copy should be provided to the seller several days before the closing date to confirm that it is complete and correct. The seller should take the copy to the bank and verify that it is legitimate.

 

On the closing date, buyer shows the original bank draft to the seller and if seller agrees the draft is complete and correct, matching the previously provided photo copy, the documents and fees are handed to land office for transfer.  Seller must provide debt free letter from the condo juristic person, stating the condo is debt free. The land office will prepare a transfer document, if the land office agrees to the transfer, that both seller and buyer must sign. Once the land office has finished processing, the chanote comes to the buyer for verification, and if correct and complete, buyer hands final payment, the original bank draft, to seller.

 

Nobody leaves the land office until both parties are satisfied. These last few minutes are crucial to successfully concluding the process. Hopefully there are no surprises. Land office doesn't provide escrow services. Both buyer and seller need to be personally physically engaged in the transaction at the land office, not sitting in a lawyer's office waiting for the law clerk to return with all the documents.

 

An important point is that if the buyer is unable to complete the transaction on the closing date, normally the buyer forfeits the deposit to the seller. Buyer may misspell the seller's name on the bank draft, or doesn't have the original external funds transfer proof, etc.

[Captain Monday]

Never make it with your estate agent or the lady who is selling her condo to you!

[MarkyM3]

5 hours ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

Oh, don't be like that. ????

 

I know a couple of foreigners that have been living in Thailand for 30 years, very angry guys. 

 

Where does he sound angry or bitter LOL. The poster you refer to clearly stated his rationale for renting over buying (on the basis his income is generated overseas from owning property or other assets there instead) and what he's in Thailand to do - which you may agree or disagree with.

 

He is also correct in that he, like you unless you have PR or are a citizen, rely on visas to live in the country. 

 

And no, I'm not angry or bitter either, I only live in the country part of the year ????. Just get bored of persistent WUMs on the forum.    

Edited June 2, 2023 by MarkyM3

[SAFETY FIRST]

2 hours ago, MarkyM3 said:

Just get bored of persistent WUMs on the forum

I'm sure you keep yourself busy replying to all of the 'WUM' comments on AN forums. 

 

I hope you have time to get outside through the day for some exercise and fresh air. 

 

2 hours ago, MarkyM3 said:

Where does he sound angry or bitter

His first reply to my comment was about being an Alien,as you say it was a WUM. 

Think about it, the guy has issues, he's clearly bitter and annoyed. 

 

 

 

Edited June 2, 2023 by SAFETY FIRST

[AlexRich]

On 6/1/2023 at 2:24 PM, Chicksaw said:

Moral of the story: Rent, don't buy. At least not anything bigger than a washing machine.

If it floats, flies or f**ks, rent, don't buy!

[jacko45k]

17 hours ago, Hockeybik said:

Moral of the story is find and pay a decent lawyer if you are handing over 15 million baht to anyone for anything in Thailand.

Perhaps he did..... the issue seems to be with the developer. We all know someone who invested in a condo and came out with a big fat  zero, I do. And then one has to chuck good money after bad on a lawyer who might  or likely might not, be straight. A good recommendation is all you can do. 

[MarkyM3]

3 hours ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

I'm sure you keep yourself busy replying to all of the 'WUM' comments on AN forums. 

 

I hope you have time to get outside through the day for some exercise and fresh air. 

 

His first reply to my comment was about being an Alien,as you say it was a WUM. 

Think about it, the guy has issues, he's clearly bitter and annoyed. 

 

 

 

Compare our posting history - you're on 2.7k in 5 years, I'm on about 1/9th of that over double the period. Doesn't quite fit your narrative.

 

As for the guy, he doesn't sound bitter or annoyed in the least, you're way off base. The only confrontational thing he said to you was about him not being tied down here due to being a renter rather than buyer.

 

And, yeah, he is an alien - a legal one as long as he has a correct visa. Here's the standard definition of an alien in case of doubt.....

 

 Alien: Terminology in Title 8 of U.S. Code to describe a person who is not a citizen or national of the United States. "Alien" is the term in statute; see noncitizen, foreign national.

 

Anyways, I'm sure that means zilch so enjoy your day. 

Edited June 2, 2023 by MarkyM3

[Skipalongcassidy]

What is a "WUM"?

[chiman]

We bought a home from San Siri and it went really smooth, great service through the transaction and transfer..  

 

Build quality is another conversation. 

[mikeymike100]

14 hours ago, JimTripper said:

It’s also lost a lost more if you buy and your property value goes down.

 

Property values don’t always go up! That’s a myth created by the real estate industry.

I fully agree, if you buy its a gamble, if you rent its no real gamble!

[Wiggy]

16 hours ago, off road pat said:

Hm,...You want to collect money or you want to live ???

Both. My condo cost me 2m baht 23 years ago. It's now worth over 4m. I pay 3,000 baht/month maintenance fee, totalling 828,000 in fees over the 23 years, so I'm still over 1 million in profit (collecting money, as you put it) and I have 80 sq. metres, two bedrooms and two bathrooms. The owner (me) can't/won't kick me out, the rent (none) won't go up, I have total peace of mind, I can leave my wife a place to stay virtually free after I'm gone, and I have more money to spend on what I enjoy doing (the living part of it). How's your rent security working out for you? 

[SAFETY FIRST]

1 hour ago, MarkyM3 said:

Compare our posting history - you're on 2.7k in 5 years, I'm on about 1/9th of that over double the period. Doesn't quite fit your narrative

Where are you getting posting results?

Anyway, I assume you are a heavy poster as you are needlessly replying to my comment. 

It just means you have more time to waste. 

Me I'm a busy guy, big family and good friends, enjoying my life, not sitting behind a computer wasting away. 

 

BTW, big noting yourself with all your postings, you should ask Asean Now for an award, you are a gold medalist. ????

Edited June 3, 2023 by SAFETY FIRST

[Captain Monday]

5 minutes ago, mikeymike100 said:

I fully agree, if you buy its a gamble, if you rent its no real gamble!

True. Everyone needs a place to live.  I could have rented a similar unit for 8 years for the purchase price of my condo.  I have owned it a lot longer than that guess I got lucky. Not sure how easy to sell it would be.

[SAFETY FIRST]

1 hour ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

What is a "WUM"?

Agree.

 

I had to Google it to understand the meaning 

Edited June 3, 2023 by SAFETY FIRST

[ravip]

On 6/2/2023 at 12:22 AM, Captain Monday said:

This Englisher is a fool who should be scorned and ridiculed.

 

No. We all do mistakes. I wonder if there's anyone who had never made a mistake in their entire life... especially after 6 or 7 decades on this planet.

 

Saying he is a fool who should be scorned and ridiculed, is way too much - I would say unacceptable.

IMHO