Mexico v Thailand

[bignok]

11 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

IIRC you started another thread asking what there was by way of entertainment in Chiang Mai.

Culture includes daytime stuff. I asked about nightlife. CM has heaps to do in the day.

[spidermike007]

15 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

You're reading too much in to it and looking at it from a biased perspective (Thais not culturally nuanced or "linguistically intelligent / skilled").

The "ridiculous" tones are part of the language and almost like part of the spelling. What, to the linguistically unintelligent, sounds the same and is just a silly tone, to the Thai sounds like a completely different word entirely with entirely different meanings and contexts (context plays a big part in Thai language). So you think the Thais are lame for not getting you, I think you are lame for not understanding better after being here for so long. I definitely think you are lame for blaming the Thais for this and suggesting they can't be bothered trying to figure you out - you simply don't understand their language or how it works.

All I know, is that throughout Latin America, I can be understood with my Spanish, despite how poor my grammar is. Even in places where the accents are very strong, they make a supreme effort, and their open minds and creative juice allows them to extrapolate and guess the meaning of what I am trying to convey. That is impossible for the Thai mind to perform. They simply don't have those creative faculties and if not pronounced nearly perfectly, their minds shut down 

[TravelerEastWest]

4 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

All I know, is that throughout Latin America, I can be understood with my Spanish, despite how poor my grammar is. Even in places where the accents are very strong, they make a supreme effort, and their open minds and creative juice allows them to extrapolate and guess the meaning of what I am trying to convey. That is impossible for the Thai mind to perform. They simply don't have those creative faculties and if not pronounced nearly perfectly, their minds shut down 

Not completely correct about Thailand but correct with many people in Thailand who are not educated...

[1happykamper]

On 6/4/2023 at 2:23 PM, Chicksaw said:

Absolutely. As long as you can dodge inter-cartel crossfire and having your head blown off, Mexico is a very competitive alternative to Thailand.

Whether one is dodging errant cartel bullets or navigating the roads in Thailand.... One of those tasks is daily fingers crossed thing. 

 

The other is not at all. 

 

Dead is dead either way 

[Jingthing]

8 minutes ago, 1happykamper said:

Whether one is dodging errant cartel bullets or navigating the roads in Thailand.... One of those tasks is daily fingers crossed thing. 

 

The other is not at all. 

 

Dead is dead either way 

Obviously in Mexico expats should avoid living in certain areas.

But overall the cartels aren't really targeting foreigners for violence.

When it happens, its usually an accident.

As most expats there are from the US, crime in Mexico (in the safer areas) can be see as quite tolerable relative to what they're used to in the US.

For example living in Queretaro would be much safer than living in St. Louis or Baltimore or many other US cities.

Edited June 9, 2023 by Jingthing

[1happykamper]

On 6/4/2023 at 5:37 PM, scorecard said:

What about visas?

Really difficult to qualify now. I got my Mexican permanent residency card in 2012.. with a 1500 minimum monthly income requirement. Today it's crazy... Something like 3 or 4 Thousand dollars per month! Jing Jing! 

[1happykamper]

On 6/5/2023 at 8:09 AM, spidermike007 said:

I have traveled all over Latin America, including Cuba many times, and can converse easily with the locals. But, I know the language is harder in Spain. But, I could adapt and learn. It would be infinitely more fun than learning Thai. Frankly, there is nothing about the Thai language I like. Nothing. Spanish sounds like music or poetry to me in comparison. And using the same alphabet is immensely easier, in addition to not having to deal with the ridiculous tones.
 
And the last part is the most important one. I find that throughout Latin America, when I am trying hard to be understood, people reciprocate that effort, and try hard to understand me. And I think they may be more creative, or more linguistically skilled than most Thais (able to dance in circles intellectually, to interpret and figure out an answer to an unfamiliar problem). You seem to get huge credit for trying to speak Spanish, even if it is very imperfect. I do not get any of that here. Nunca. Nada. Zero. You do not pronounce it perfectly here, we have no idea what you are saying! And there is no effort made to attempt to figure it out. Lame. Very lame. That gets very old. 
 

Exactamente! In Thailand there is no attempt to understand my words even though I'm one octave off getting it right... Along with pointing to the damned subject matter 5555.

 

Mexicans can figure it out... They always try to LISTEN to my poor Spanish. 

 

HUGE plus to live there and not feel so isolated here. Five years of listening to the various village heads and for all I know they're planning a coup or something. I've no idea. 

[Jingthing]

13 minutes ago, 1happykamper said:

Really difficult to qualify now. I got my Mexican permanent residency card in 2012.. with a 1500 minimum monthly income requirement. Today it's crazy... Something like 3 or 4 Thousand dollars per month! Jing Jing! 

On income yes, the level is very high and prohibitive to most.

But there is also the SHOW MONEY option.

It's either / or similar to Thailand.

The level for temp residency if going for retirement status is still at a point that most US retirees would have in their retirement accounts. Many will have the amount needed for instant perm residency (much higher of course).

But it goes up every year. 

Yes, money in retirement accounts (IRA, 401k) is accepted!

There is no need to transfer anything to Mexico either.

Overall, still remarkably liberal and welcoming. 

[1happykamper]

On 6/5/2023 at 10:32 PM, Jingthing said:

BTW, Mazatlan (a big beach city) is still a decent lower/mid budget option for beach bound expats. But it's in Sinaloa of the famous cartel. Your relatives will be worried.

 

The interior colonial cities such as Queretaro (getting expensive) offer year round mild weather if you want to get away from heat and humidity.

 

If you like big cities, Mexico City is one of top cities in the world. If you're willing to go with a smaller apartment in a somewhat less popular neighborhood, it's doable on a mid level budget.

I spent 6 months living near plaza machado in Mazatlán. That theater is the kind of culture I miss... 

 

I've visited Guadalajara several times and I'm so close to leaving Chiang Mai the end of this year and heading there.. Col. Américas looks nice 

[1happykamper]

11 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

On income yes, the level is very high and prohibitive to most.

But there is also the SHOW MONEY option.

It's either / or similar to Thailand.

The level for temp residency if going for retirement status is still at a point that most US retirees would have in their retirement accounts. Many will have the amount needed for instant perm residency (much higher of course).

But it goes up every year. 

Yes, money in retirement accounts (IRA, 401k) is accepted!

There is no need to transfer anything to Mexico either.

Overall, still remarkably liberal and welcoming. 

When are we heading there? 555 555

[Jingthing]

17 minutes ago, 1happykamper said:

When are we heading there? 555 555

I'm not.

I'm too settled in Thailand.

But if I was just starting to be an expat still living in the US I would choose either Colombia or Mexico. 

Colombia has become more difficult but still doable and there are great advantages over Mexico -- lower cost (if you stay out of the tourism magnets) plus the health system is much better especially if you start younger where you can get premium plans that cut off if starting older.

 

Also as far as crime safety goes in general you do need to be on your guard much more in Latin America than Thailand.

Edited June 9, 2023 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Financial requirements for Mexico vary based  on the specific consulate you use. Yes you start outside of Mexico. So many people go consulate shopping! Laredo Texas is famous for usually being the lowest.

 

Anyway, these are typical current levels.

They really do go up (a lot) annually.

 

Another cool thing about temp residency is that you need to show the money ONCE and never on renewals. At the fifth year, you can go for perm status.

 

 

 

Financial Criteria for Legal Residency in Mexico 2023 (mexperience.com)

Quote

 

Temporary Residency

Monthly income of at least c.US$3,275 over the last 6 months (some consulates request 12 months); OR

Savings/investments account balance(s) of at least c.US$54,600 over the last 12 months; OR

You can also apply for Temporary Residency based on the value of a house you own in Mexico, or if you make a capital investment in Mexico. See the section below for more details.

Permanent Residency

Monthly income of at least c.US$5,460 over the last 6 months (some consulates request 12 months); OR

Savings/investments account balance(s) of at least c.US$218,000 over the last 12 months.

 

 

[spidermike007]

1 hour ago, 1happykamper said:

Exactamente! In Thailand there is no attempt to understand my words even though I'm one octave off getting it right... Along with pointing to the damned subject matter 5555.

 

Mexicans can figure it out... They always try to LISTEN to my poor Spanish. 

 

HUGE plus to live there and not feel so isolated here. Five years of listening to the various village heads and for all I know they're planning a coup or something. I've no idea. 

Yes. I have ordered Yom yum ปลาหมึกI (pla mug) many times, and they cannot figure it out. How many types of Tom yum do they have and which ones sound anything like what I am saying? Not chicken. Not shrimp. Duh!

 

That would never happen anywhere in Latin America, because they have the extrapolation faculty. Not here. Not in the slightest. 

[GinBoy2]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Yes. I have ordered Yom yum ปลาหมึกI (pla mug) many times, and they cannot figure it out. How many types of Tom yum do they have and which ones sound anything like what I am saying? Not chicken. Not shrimp. Duh!

 

That would never happen anywhere in Latin America, because they have the extrapolation faculty. Not here. Not in the slightest. 

Tonal languages are a bitch to learn. 

 

I started with Mandarin nearly 30 years ago and it frustrated the Hell outta me when folks couldn't understand when I got a tone wrong.

 

Then it clicks when you realize the word with two tones has two meanings. That Eureka moment with Mandarin helped me with Thai and Lao.

 

My two native languages are English & Spanish, and for the most part you can string words together, not necessarily in the the right order and still be understood.

 

In Latin America most people will appreciate you speaking in mangled Spanish, whereas for me I just get ridiculed for my Gringo accent, mostly by family lol

[josephbloggs]

1 minute ago, GinBoy2 said:

Tonal languages are a bitch to learn. 

 

I started with Mandarin nearly 30 years ago and it frustrated the Hell outta me when folks couldn't understand when I got a tone wrong.

 

Then it clicks when you realize the word with two tones has two meanings. That Eureka moment with Mandarin helped me with Thai and Lao.

Correct. It is due to the nature of the language that they genuinely can't understand you when you get it wrong, it is not because they are stupid (as has been inferred by some posters).

It's like if someone came to you and said "I difficult go to shirt a rice tiger"  but they really meant "I want to go to buy a white shirt", you wouldn't have a clue what they are on about. Yes, they are all extremely close words but with entirely different meaning so these posters would think "I am close, why don't they understand me? Why are Thais so stupid, unlike the Spanish". Spanish is not a tonal language.

[GinBoy2]

21 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

Correct. It is due to the nature of the language that they genuinely can't understand you when you get it wrong, it is not because they are stupid (as has been inferred by some posters).

It's like if someone came to you and said "I difficult go to shirt a rice tiger"  but they really meant "I want to go to buy a white shirt", you wouldn't have a clue what they are on about. Yes, they are all extremely close words but with entirely different meaning so these posters would think "I am close, why don't they understand me? Why are Thais so stupid, unlike the Spanish". Spanish is not a tonal language.

Thats exactly how it is.

 

I can hear mangled English or Spanish and kinda get the gist of what the person is saying.

 

But mangled Mandarin, Thai or Lao and I'm confused, and I'm not stupid

 

To be honest it's probably even worse for those of us that learn tonal languages as a second.

In English & Spanish they swirl around in my head interchangeably, but with my learned languages I translate, I don't think in them

Edited June 10, 2023 by GinBoy2

[StayinThailand2much]

On 6/5/2023 at 8:13 AM, spidermike007 said:

So, why is it that Thailand is not on the list? Surely there are more than 36,000 expats here. Why is that info so hard to find? Does the govt. here suppress it? 

Maybe because, officially, we are 'tourists' or "aliens", not residents or expats. (That's why an expat couple with kids, going on 5 overseas trips/year will make up a good junk of the 'yearly tourist arrivals' statistics when coming back to Thailand...)

Edited June 10, 2023 by StayinThailand2much

[Jingthing]

A big downside of Colombia for many.

Bland food!

[In Full Agreement]

On 6/4/2023 at 4:31 PM, andy said:

But good luck with the rents there on a typical SE Asia expat retiree budget.  I could never swing it (I'm running the numbers as I'm a couple years away from retirement).

 

What actual rent figures are you finding?

[josephbloggs]

1 hour ago, StayinThailand2much said:

Maybe because, officially, we are 'tourists' or "aliens", not residents or expats. (That's why an expat couple with kids, going on 5 overseas trips/year will make up a good junk of the 'yearly tourist arrivals' statistics when coming back to Thailand...)

How do you know that? I hear it so often on here but no-one knows it, it is nothing more than TVF hearsay and I have never seen a shred of evidence to support it.

Our details get scanned and entered on to the immigration computer on arrival. They know how many are on long term visas coming back on re-entry, they know how many are on tourist visas, they know how many are coming in on visa exempt. It's on a computer system. What makes you think they just lump them all in together at the end and call them tourists? It's just a TVF myth unless someone can show me otherwise, I would be happy to be corrected but I don't expect I will be.

 

[StayinThailand2much]

14 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

How do you know that?

Have you ever heard or read about in Thai media/publications/announcements/ statistics, etc., about the 'number of non-residents in Thailand', or something along the lines of 'XXX tourists arrived in March, and XX expats/non residents...'? - I certainly haven't since I follow Thai media, and that is for 26 years now...

Edited June 10, 2023 by StayinThailand2much

[bradiston]

Some interesting data on expats in Thailand, amongst other stuff, here:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Thailand#:~:text=Thailand is also home to,%2C North America%2C and elsewhere.

Edited June 10, 2023 by bradiston

[josephbloggs]

2 minutes ago, StayinThailand2much said:

Have you ever heard or read about in Thai media about the number of 'non-residents' in Thailand, or something along the lines of 'XXX tourists arrived in March, and XX expats/non residents...'?

No, but why would I? I only see TAT reports about the number of tourist arrivals because that is an important metric and that is their job. What kind of country would announce "in April we had 15,587 people on extensions of stay based on employment return from overseas trips"?

[StayinThailand2much]

8 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

No, but why would I? I only see TAT reports about the number of tourist arrivals because that is an important metric and that is their job. What kind of country would announce "in April we had 15,587 people on extensions of stay based on employment return from overseas trips"?

So, if (returning) expats are not counted as 'tourists', why shouldn't their number turn up in other news or announcements?

Edited June 10, 2023 by StayinThailand2much

[josephbloggs]

1 minute ago, StayinThailand2much said:

So, if expats are not counted as 'tourists', why shouldn't their number turn up in other news or announcements?

As I said, why would they need to announce how many expats go in and out each month, what would be the point?

[StayinThailand2much]

16 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

As I said, why would they need to announce how many expats go in and out each month, what would be the point?

Well, Thailand is after tourists because they mean income. If you think of some locations (Pattaya, Patong, Hua Hin, Chiang Mai, etc.), why would they not care/write about returning expats, esp. as a good number left during the pandemic. And expats, obviously, stay longer than tourists, and can be of importance for local economies (e.g. Pattaya, Phuket). But, using your argument, why write about tourist arrivals at all?

Edited June 10, 2023 by StayinThailand2much

[spidermike007]

16 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

How do you know that? I hear it so often on here but no-one knows it, it is nothing more than TVF hearsay and I have never seen a shred of evidence to support it.

Our details get scanned and entered on to the immigration computer on arrival. They know how many are on long term visas coming back on re-entry, they know how many are on tourist visas, they know how many are coming in on visa exempt. It's on a computer system. What makes you think they just lump them all in together at the end and call them tourists? It's just a TVF myth unless someone can show me otherwise, I would be happy to be corrected but I don't expect I will be.

 

I think he is right. My guess would be that they are counting every ex-pat coming into the country, from a trip overseas, business visas, etc. Everyone counts! Beef up the numbers!

[Yellowtail]

3 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

I think he is right. My guess would be that they are counting every ex-pat coming into the country, from a trip overseas, business visas, etc. Everyone counts! Beef up the numbers!

I doubt the number of expats in Thailand is significant when compared to the number of tourists. 

 

Expats aren't filling all the hotels...

 

 

[stoner]

On 6/9/2023 at 6:14 PM, josephbloggs said:

Correct. It is due to the nature of the language that they genuinely can't understand you when you get it wrong, it is not because they are stupid (as has been inferred by some posters).

not always.

 

i was in McDonalds the other day ordering a cheesburger combo. when she asked if i wanted coke i said no i wanted water. nam plow. as i pointed to the small fridge with water in it. 

 

she looked at me all starry eyed. so i said nam ploooooooooooow and she was like ok perfect.

 

there is some validity in what other posters have said it cannot be brushed off.  10 plus years living here and i personally have many examples of interactions just like that. as do other posters. 

[spidermike007]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

I doubt the number of expats in Thailand is significant when compared to the number of tourists. 

 

Expats aren't filling all the hotels...

 

 

True. But we do contribute to the economy. We do bring in alot of stable income.  Even the rural folks benefit. Alot of the nicer houses in the poorer farming areas were built with money from expats. Alot of trucks, cars and income is from expats. Countless business employing many. To say it is insignificant, is a blatant misunderstanding of Thai economics. Thousands of hotels, restaurants, countless airlines and many tour companies, also benefit. By comparison, an average ex-pat spends how much per month? I would say alot of us spend 50,000 to upwards of 100,000 baht a month. I know I do. No value in that? I know some live on less. However, since the average GDP of the nation is around $570, that means about 18,000 baht a month?

 

Alot of guys got sick of the toxic immigration and government and left. A friend of mine uses a foreign lawyer in Bangkok, who is one of the top attorneys around. He said his office cannot find enough hours in the day to meet with expats who are leaving, with their Thai spouse or family, and dealing with wills and assets for their remaining Thai families, properties, etc. 

 

Back to the original post. I really wonder how many expats live here? Not the transitory, working here for a year or two types. Those of us who have been here a long time. 100,000? Maybe. 

 

 

Edited June 11, 2023 by spidermike007