When does it become time to put money aside in a separate account and self insure?

[Isaan sailor]

I guess I’m self insured.  Got tired of rising premiums.  I keep some Baht in the bank, but clearly not enough to cover a major medical event.  Gradually I will add to my savings account.  Most of my savings invested in blue chip stocks in USA.  Can sell, and bring the money here in about a week, if needed.

[save the frogs]

54 minutes ago, mania said:

Very True & sad to say I also was one who once thought I was safe due to my endurance type training most of my life. Now I am in my 60's & still doing quite well but my eyes have now seen many endurance type athletes suddenly have heart attacks or worse drop dead. Plus many other unrelated problems

 

Misinformation from the medical community is further complicating matters.

We've been told that jogging is good for you.

It's not. It's harmful.

Even if your cardiologist tells you to jog, ignore them. 

 

[scottiejohn]

1 hour ago, save the frogs said:

Even if your cardiologist tells you to jog, ignore them. 

So you are better qualified than my cardiologist to advise me on my health matters are you?

 

 

 

Edited July 10, 2023 by scottiejohn

[Sheryl]

3 hours ago, save the frogs said:

Misinformation from the medical community is further complicating matters.

We've been told that jogging is good for you.

It's not. It's harmful.

Even if your cardiologist tells you to jog, ignore them. 

 

 

Jogging is fine if not done to excess (true of many things)

 

It is excessive jogging that had been linked to some cardiac problems. Or jogging by people wiht known cardiac issues.  Anyone who has a cardioloigist (and thus by definition a cardiovascular problem) is unlikely to be told to jog, more likely told to do brisk walking.

 

And, since jogging is rather hard on the joints knee and hip), better to substitute brisk walking at older ages or if there is any arthritis.

 

 

 

 

[mania]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

And, since jogging is rather hard on the joints knee and hip), better to substitute brisk walking at older ages or if there is any arthritis.

 

Yup I find Cycling & Swimming best ????

[rickudon]

The one aspect of whether you should get health insurance that has not been mentioned, is cost versus income. Many of us moved to Thailand for the cheaper cost of living, but paying insurance premiums means an impact on your quality of life options. Some of the premiums mentioned here are over 50% of my annual income - getting health insurance would mean having to choose whether to eat or turn on the air-conditioning. Or feeding the wife.

 

I would be reasonably happy to spend 10% of my income on health insurance, but whenever i have got quotes, it was around 25% plus. That would have meant burning through my savings (which i did have to anyway, to attain a reasonably comfortable existence here over the first 5 years), or only existing, not living.

 

So, i have chosen to 'self insure'. Over the last 12 years, this has meant a saving of about 2 million baht in premiums, against an expenditure of around 60,000 baht (including one potential health emergency which resulted in a quick return to the UK for diagnosis). If i had used my savings to maintain my lifestyle and pay health insurance, i would now be broke.

 

A gamble, yes, but paying off so far. By the time i will be in my 80's, insurance premiums could exceed my annual income. 

 

Health insurance is for the rich.

[save the frogs]

On 7/9/2023 at 10:27 PM, Sheryl said:

It is excessive jogging that had been linked to some cardiac problems.

fair point.

but what is excessive? how can you possibly know if you're jogging too much?

wait until you feel arythmia?

the only way to know is to continually go to the cardiologist to get monitored. 

and if you're not insured, that's more out of pocket costs. 

 

the other problem with jogging is people get addicted due to jogger's high. and it lends itself to competition ... marathons, people trying to out-jog each other. 

 

so I believe people should avoid jogging altogether and do low-intensity cardio which you won't have to worry about damaging the heart and frequent visits to the cardiologist. 

 

.

[TravelerEastWest]

On 7/10/2023 at 6:06 AM, save the frogs said:

Misinformation from the medical community is further complicating matters.

We've been told that jogging is good for you.

It's not. It's harmful.

Even if your cardiologist tells you to jog, ignore them. 

 

Jogging in reasonable amounts seem to clearly be good for most people - for some there may be some issues so talking to your doctor can be useful.

 

 

This article is from 2016 but is very balanced and easy to read.

 

https://www.runnersworld.com/runners-stories/a20823603/what-to-know-about-running-and-your-heart/

 

A cardiologist in Hawaii Dr Jack Schaff was part of the movement to have cardiac patients include running a marathon in their rehab work. He was part of the creation of the Honolulu marathon.

 

Disclosure I met him a long time ago at the Honolulu marathon running clinic and was very impressed with him and his research and results... For those who prefer to swim go for it!

[scubascuba3]

8 hours ago, save the frogs said:

fair point.

but what is excessive? how can you possibly know if you're jogging too much?

wait until you feel arythmia?

the only way to know is to continually go to the cardiologist to get monitored. 

and if you're not insured, that's more out of pocket costs. 

 

the other problem with jogging is people get addicted due to jogger's high. and it lends itself to competition ... marathons, people trying to out-jog each other. 

 

so I believe people should avoid jogging altogether and do low-intensity cardio which you won't have to worry about damaging the heart and frequent visits to the cardiologist. 

 

.

Cycling is very good, i know some very fit guys in 60s, 70s, 80s, keeps them healthier for longer

[save the frogs]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

Cycling is very good, i know some very fit guys in 60s, 70s, 80s, keeps them healthier for longer

i'm not a fan of cycling either. 

 

for one thing, there is a risk of accidents. one guy that i know has cycled for 30 years. he has had 2 falls. the first one he got lucky. he could have gotten hit by a car. and more recently, he got a minor concussion. his helmet cracked. not sure how fast he was going. so accidents may not happen frequently, but can be dangerous when they do. 

 

so now multiple hospital visits needed to monitor the concussion. and who knows if concussions can resurface in old age as dementia? 

 

like jogging, cycle can lead to competitiveness and you can overdo it. this same guy who got the concussion. he is in his 60s. the group he cycles with (maybe some younger guys) was pressuring him because he couldn't keep up with the pack. so he's probably causing too much strain on his heart to try to keep up with the others. and they usually cycle for 4 hours at a time, and probably at fairly high intensity. i'm not a big fan of high intensity cardio for extended periods of time like that.

 

but disclaimer: i am not a cardiologist. 

 

 

Edited July 12, 2023 by save the frogs

[scubascuba3]

2 hours ago, save the frogs said:

i'm not a fan of cycling either. 

 

for one thing, there is a risk of accidents. one guy that i know has cycled for 30 years. he has had 2 falls. the first one he got lucky. he could have gotten hit by a car. and more recently, he got a minor concussion. his helmet cracked. not sure how fast he was going. so accidents may not happen frequently, but can be dangerous when they do. 

 

so now multiple hospital visits needed to monitor the concussion. and who knows if concussions can resurface in old age as dementia? 

 

like jogging, cycle can lead to competitiveness and you can overdo it. this same guy who got the concussion. he is in his 60s. the group he cycles with (maybe some younger guys) was pressuring him because he couldn't keep up with the pack. so he's probably causing too much strain on his heart to try to keep up with the others. and they usually cycle for 4 hours at a time, and probably at fairly high intensity. i'm not a big fan of high intensity cardio for extended periods of time like that.

 

but disclaimer: i am not a cardiologist. 

 

 

you sound like you are justifying very little or no exercise, like those who just do weight in the gym with little or no cardio. Dangers everywhere especially walking in Thailand maybe don't do that either

[save the frogs]

34 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

you sound like you are justifying very little or no exercise, like those who just do weight in the gym with little or no cardio. Dangers everywhere especially walking in Thailand maybe don't do that either

you asked me about cycling and the cyclist that i know just got a concussion.

i realize it doesn't happen to everyone. 

but one might even argue that cycling is an "extreme sport" more than exercise. if not, why is it recommended to wear a helmet? 

 

i used to jog, developed all sorts of pains. back pains, knee pains, ankle pains. i met a jogger who had a friend who dropped dead at the finish line of a marathon. i will not jog ever again. there's no NEED for it. there are other much safer ways to exercise. 

 

do whatever you want. 

 

walking is the least dangerous way to get around and least risky form of exercise.

walking is quite effective as cardio, but probably only effective if done an hour daily. 

low risk, low intensity. but still effective. 

no risk of over-exerting the heart. 

most people, especially adrenaline junkies, will find it far too boring. 

ideally, you can live in a busy area where you can walk to pick up groceries daily. 20 minutes of walking to pick up groceries daily is not nothing. it will help reduce risk of disease. in fact, several relatively short walks daily helps a lot because the blood glucose in the body goes down. 

 

i like tennis for cardio. but there are some problems with finding the right people to play with sometimes. or courts are not always available depending where you live. 

 

and i also think a good form of cardio is shadow boxing (or set up a punching bag) in front of the tv instead of sitting on the sofa when watching TV. 

 

 

Edited July 13, 2023 by save the frogs

[jerrymahoney]

10 hours ago, TravelerEastWest said:

For those who prefer to swim go for it!

The problem with talking about your swimming on here, some guy will come on and say:

 

Well that's nice . But I once swam the English Channel whis(st) towing a coal barge.

[Isaan sailor]

I ride every day—mostly dirt farm roads.  Mud on occasion will stop me.  Also use a spinner at home.  Rainy season, some farm work.  High season, add sailing.  It seems to work—knock on wood.

Edited July 13, 2023 by Isaan sailor

[TravelerEastWest]

1 hour ago, jerrymahoney said:

The problem with talking about your swimming on here, some guy will come on and say:

 

Well that's nice . But I once swam the English Channel whis(st) towing a coal barge.

You are correct - but there are some really good posters here also who are polite and intelligent and thoughtful.

 

 

[jerrymahoney]

2 minutes ago, TravelerEastWest said:

You are correct - but there are some really good posters here also who are polite and intelligent and thoughtful.

True. Some.

[scubascuba3]

1 hour ago, jerrymahoney said:

The problem with talking about your swimming on here, some guy will come on and say:

 

Well that's nice . But I once swam the English Channel whis(st) towing a coal barge.

You get those in bars too, they sit next to you and want to play Trumps, i.e. what they've done is better, earlier and wealthier, i usually win 

[jerrymahoney]

5 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

i usually win 

As Maynard G. Krebs would say: You rang??