VINEGAR: Vinegar Intended Specifically for... Household Cleaning and Descaling of Hot Water Heaters... Where to buy Cheap by the Gallon?

[GammaGlobulin]

Vinegar is often suggested for household cleaning purposes.

Also, vinegar is said to be a very effective agent for descaling of hot water heaters, and maybe even tea kettles, as well.

 

Many areas outside of Chiang Mai are well known for tap water having high concentrations of Calcium Carbonate and maybe Magnesium Carbonate which leaves a white residue in bathrooms, kitchens, etc.

 

I have seen it recommended that Vinegar is effective for cleaning and descaling deposits caused by "Hard Water".

 

However, I have not seen this type of vinegar sold in stores, and in large enough packaging.

 

Here is an image of 45% vinegar sold in a Walmart store online, and I think the price is about USD20.00, which actually seems quite overpriced to me.

 

I would imagine that the price of a similar Thai-manufactured product would be cheaper, if one could find a good source.

 

I would like to buy a gallon, and test it to see if it is, indeed, effective.

 

But where to buy?

And, is it effective at cleaning calcium deposits, and maybe mold in the shower, as well?

Tks.

 

 

 

 

[Lacessit]

Vinegar ( acetic acid ) is effective in cleaning insoluble calcium carbonate deposits, converting the calcium into soluble calcium acetate. It is ineffective in dissolving calcium sulphate deposits.

Most calcium carbonate deposits are caused by the over-enthusiastic use of lime ( calcium oxide ) by water authorities, during the process of floc-clarification of turbid water.

Another downside of said excessive use is rendering chlorine disinfection ineffective, as chlorine is most effective below pH 8. Which is why I always boil tap water if it is used for drinking.

Mold is a biological growth, IME the best mold remover is a 5% copper sulphate solution in contact for 24 hours.

[GammaGlobulin]

23 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Vinegar ( acetic acid ) is effective in cleaning insoluble calcium carbonate deposits, converting the calcium into soluble calcium acetate. It is ineffective in dissolving calcium sulphate deposits.

Most calcium carbonate deposits are caused by the over-enthusiastic use of lime ( calcium oxide ) by water authorities, during the process of floc-clarification of turbid water.

Another downside of said excessive use is rendering chlorine disinfection ineffective, as chlorine is most effective below pH 8. Which is why I always boil tap water if it is used for drinking.

Thanks, Man!

 

I know you know your stuff being a chemist.

But, I also have a question about "hard water" deposits and water softeners.  I was told that the filters on offer here use a resin-type or a activated-charcoal type.  If true, which might be more effective?

 

Also, it is my understanding that the water being piped in is ground water/well water.  So then, being just outside of CM proper, what does that do to your equation, ie, what am I dealing with, and will vinegar be a possible solution...

 

Re: drinking water for my own consumption ...  I buy from the company Glacier.  So far, no runs.

 

Also, as you say, hard water can contain calcium sulphate, and I have not had the water here analyzed.

 

My conclusion was that I could just buy a gallon and try it.

If it easily removes the white mineral deposits all over the shower area, then that might be all I need to know.

 

Just as importantly, I think I would do well to flush the hot water heaters with something to clear out deposits that might exist in the piping of the heater.  I figured that vinegar is cheaper than buying some other chemical solution, if it works.

 

I do not see how the use of acetic acid to clean shower and bathroom surfaces might affect the pH of the water coming out of the pipes, however.  And therefore, the chlorine concentration of tap water would not change due to use of vinegar.

 

So...Thanks for the informed reply.

 

But, I will mention that one time, while eating Chinese dumplings at a small restaurant on Green Island off the coast of Taiwan, I asked for vinegar to mix with soy sauce and ginger, for dipping.  They told me "no vinegar".  I explained to them that I ALWAYS have dumplings dipped in vinegar, or I can't eat them. These Chinese are smart. And, they seemed to have gone out and found some industrial grade vinegar and brought it back in a small bowl.  So I added the vinegar to the soy sauce and ginger in my dipping saucer and tasted my first dipped dumpling...

 

WOW, MAN!

That was really HOT burned my tongue.

Still, it was good, but a little bit of that industrial vinegar with your meal goes a long way.

 

Acetic acid comes in all concentrations.

I would advise sticking to the vinegar available at the supermarket for all your culinary purposes. (What's the concentration of supermarket vinegar? IDK..but maybe 5 to 10 percent.)

Stay away from the 45% acetic acid for dipping your dumplings, by all means.

 

Tks again!

 

 

[ChipButty]

we buy from MAKRO 

[gamb00ler]

2 hours ago, ChipButty said:

we buy from MAKRO 

We bought a gallon of vinegar @Makro but it was only 5%.  Did you find a stronger version there?

[novacova]

The best cleaning solution aside from industrial caustic chemicals is hydrogen peroxide and sodium bicarbonate solution. Descaling, cleans and kills everything, use it all the time. Good luck with the vinegar 

[GammaGlobulin]

29 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

We bought a gallon of vinegar @Makro but it was only 5%.  Did you find a stronger version there?

I kinda doubt that Makro has industrial strength vinegar.

Acetic acid in much higher concentrations is nothing for the average housewife to play around with, maybe. You gotta dilute it to taste, after all.

 

"In contact with the skin or eyes, acetic acid solutions of 80% or more can be corrosive, causing severe burns of any exposed tissue. Long-term exposure to the vapors of this substance causes chronic bronchitis and other respiratory effects, erosion of tooth enamel, and cracking and darkening of the exposed skin." (cdc.gov, https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/81-123/pdfs/0002-rev.pdf)

 

See attached PDF...

 

Still, acetic acid is nothing compared to playing around with fuming Nitric Acid.

I once had a gallon jug of Fuming Nitic acid, and a gallon jug of Fuming Sulfuric acid stored in brown glass bottles in my dorm room while at boarding school, at age 14. I purchased both at Fischer Scientific, fischersci.com.  I forget what I was going to do with it.  I think I might have been planning to make NitroGlycerin, as I recall, or maybe just gun-cotton. No, I am sure it was Nitroglycerin that was on my mind. I thought that I could make it on one of the deserted beaches on Long Island, NY.  Strangely enough, during those days, decades ago, it was normal for boys to experiment with things, and I was not given any disciplinary action.

 

I think I bought the sulfuric acid for the gun-cotton, for later use.

 

Still, I doubt that Makro sells concentrated acetic acid, just as it definitely does not carry Fuming Sulfuric or Fuming Nitric acid.

 

pH value for fuming nitric acid is less than 1

pH value for fuming sulfuric acid is less than 1

 

Storage in a boarding school dormitory, and in glass bottles with hard tile floors is HIGHLY ill-advised.

 

Other than Makro, I hope somebody knows where to get 45% acetic acid in gallon jugs (plastic this time).

 

 

 

ACETIC ACID FROM CDC.pdf

[Lacessit]

4 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Thanks, Man!

 

I know you know your stuff being a chemist.

But, I also have a question about "hard water" deposits and water softeners.  I was told that the filters on offer here use a resin-type or a activated-charcoal type.  If true, which might be more effective?

 

Also, it is my understanding that the water being piped in is ground water/well water.  So then, being just outside of CM proper, what does that do to your equation, ie, what am I dealing with, and will vinegar be a possible solution...

 

Re: drinking water for my own consumption ...  I buy from the company Glacier.  So far, no runs.

 

Also, as you say, hard water can contain calcium sulphate, and I have not had the water here analyzed.

 

My conclusion was that I could just buy a gallon and try it.

If it easily removes the white mineral deposits all over the shower area, then that might be all I need to know.

 

Just as importantly, I think I would do well to flush the hot water heaters with something to clear out deposits that might exist in the piping of the heater.  I figured that vinegar is cheaper than buying some other chemical solution, if it works.

 

I do not see how the use of acetic acid to clean shower and bathroom surfaces might affect the pH of the water coming out of the pipes, however.  And therefore, the chlorine concentration of tap water would not change due to use of vinegar.

 

So...Thanks for the informed reply.

 

But, I will mention that one time, while eating Chinese dumplings at a small restaurant on Green Island off the coast of Taiwan, I asked for vinegar to mix with soy sauce and ginger, for dipping.  They told me "no vinegar".  I explained to them that I ALWAYS have dumplings dipped in vinegar, or I can't eat them. These Chinese are smart. And, they seemed to have gone out and found some industrial grade vinegar and brought it back in a small bowl.  So I added the vinegar to the soy sauce and ginger in my dipping saucer and tasted my first dipped dumpling...

 

WOW, MAN!

That was really HOT burned my tongue.

Still, it was good, but a little bit of that industrial vinegar with your meal goes a long way.

 

Acetic acid comes in all concentrations.

I would advise sticking to the vinegar available at the supermarket for all your culinary purposes. (What's the concentration of supermarket vinegar? IDK..but maybe 5 to 10 percent.)

Stay away from the 45% acetic acid for dipping your dumplings, by all means.

 

Tks again!

 

 

Charcoal-based filters are intended to remove organic chemicals, such as pesticides and other harmful compounds. They do little to remove inorganic ions.

Resin filters work by ion exchange, a field in which I was once a dab hand. Depending on what ion the resin is preloaded with, calcium and magnesium can be absorbed and exchanged with H+ or Na+. Anion exchange columns are usually exchanging OH-.

 

Water softeners exchange sodium ions for calcium and magnesium.

 

Vinegar in supermarkets ranges from 5-20% concentration. The pH of 10% vinegar is 2.5, so it is a fairly strong acid.

 

45% vinegar is most probably manufactured using azeotropic distillation.

[DaddyWarbucks]

Try Union Science Co., Ltd. (formerly Union Chemical) located at 257/18-19 Suthep Rd.

Wonderful place for all sorts of chemicals and lab equipment.

Reasonable prices as well.

[ChipButty]

2 hours ago, gamb00ler said:

We bought a gallon of vinegar @Makro but it was only 5%.  Did you find a stronger version there?

Im not sure it's the wife who buys it she uses it for cleaning and the laundry especially the towels 

 

I just looked it's only 5% 

[GammaGlobulin]

26 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Charcoal-based filters are intended to remove organic chemicals, such as pesticides and other harmful compounds. They do little to remove inorganic ions.

Resin filters work by ion exchange, a field in which I was once a dab hand. Depending on what ion the resin is preloaded with, calcium and magnesium can be absorbed and exchanged with H+ or Na+. Anion exchange columns are usually exchanging OH-.

 

Water softeners exchange sodium ions for calcium and magnesium.

 

Vinegar in supermarkets ranges from 5-20% concentration. The pH of 10% vinegar is 2.5, so it is a fairly strong acid.

 

45% vinegar is most probably manufactured using azeotropic distillation.

Thank you.

Finally, I meet someone here who actually knows what he's talking about.

 

I am not sure what concentration of acetic acid might be optimal to circulate in a closed loop for flushing a hot water heater for shower.

For that matter, who knows the optimal concentration for wiping off mineral deposits on shower and bathroom tiles, anyway.

When I was fourteen I knew how to make nitroglycerine, and had the chemicals to make gun-cotton, too. But when you get older, like over 15, making nitroglycerine on a beach in LI no longer seems so interesting...All that wasted knowledge.

 

That was probably the most dangerous stunt I ever attempted in my long life.

I shudder even to think about it now.  You could say that it gives me the vapors just contemplating the potential repercussions.

 

Which reminds me that we should all be mindful when working with cleaning products, maybe also things like Drano, which can produce harmful vapors when inadvertently mixed with other cleaning products.  I guess you know what you get with bleach plus vinegar...chlorine gas.

Bleach plus cleaning ammonia.... phosgene gas (WW1 Mustard Gas).

 

People should know this basic chemistry before their weekly or annual housecleaning day arrives.

 

 

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

6 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Another downside of said excessive use is rendering chlorine disinfection ineffective, as chlorine is most effective below pH 8. Which is why I always boil tap water if it is used for drinking.

OK. I got your meaning on the second reading.

I mistakenly thought you were referring to the use of vinegar, and not the use of lime, by water treatment plants.

 

In the case of well water, the hard water problem exists even without the help of the water authorities.

And, obviously, chlorine is not added.

Bottled water in 20-liter jugs might be the best option.

However, bottled water originates from the water treatment plant.

So, back to boiling, maybe.

Or, ozonation plus filtering.

 

I am not sure what the supplier Glacier does with the bottled water.

However, I do not notice much mineralization in the water kettle.

I would not be surprised if they do filtering and ozonation, although I never took the trouble to ask.

 

 

 

 

[novacova]

1 hour ago, ChipButty said:

Im not sure it's the wife who buys it she uses it for cleaning and the laundry especially the towels 

 

I just looked it's only 5% 

What I don’t like about using vinegar for cleaning is that it leaves a smelly residue. So if you like your home smelling like a jar of pickles then it’s a good option ????

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

OK. I got your meaning on the second reading.

I mistakenly thought you were referring to the use of vinegar, and not the use of lime, by water treatment plants.

 

In the case of well water, the hard water problem exists even without the help of the water authorities.

And, obviously, chlorine is not added.

Bottled water in 20-liter jugs might be the best option.

However, bottled water originates from the water treatment plant.

So, back to boiling, maybe.

Or, ozonation plus filtering.

 

I am not sure what the supplier Glacier does with the bottled water.

However, I do not notice much mineralization in the water kettle.

I would not be surprised if they do filtering and ozonation, although I never took the trouble to ask.

 

 

 

 

Irrespective of whether the water is chlorinated or not, it is better to boil it for drinking.

Chlorine and chloramines are implicated in soft tissue cancer formation. When water has a high proportion of organics in it, correspondingly more chlorine is used to achieve a free chlorine residual.

The act of boiling eliminates chlorine and chloramines via steam distillation.

The soft tissue cancer link is difficult to prove, the excess incidence is buried in the statistical background noise.

Port Augusta is a town in Australia, at the end of Murray River supply. The water is heavily chlorinated to suppress cases of meningitis. Three or four excess cancer deaths in a thousand is not as noticeable as a single case of meningitis; the water authorities are not going to be admitting the drinking water they supply is unsafe.

The other problem with chlorination is it does not kill parasites such as giardia and cryptosporidia. Boiling does.

Did you know about 95% of American towns and cities are actually drinking recycled pee? It's why I mostly drank beer and coffee on my visits there.

[Bundooman]

Vinegar in 5 liter containers are readily available in Makro, some Lotus's and presumably, Big Cs.

For use, mix with Baking powder, (Sodium Bicarbonate) - available as above and at the Chemical store on the Mahidol Rd, 2/3 Km from Airport Plaza, CM  - together with a bit of elbow grease and a scotch bright pad, will remove most stains, scale and bathroom tiles.

We use it extensively and it is exceptionally cheap to buy.

[LikeItHot]

Vinegar: It is a liquid essentially consisting of acetic acid and water. It contains 4 to 6 per cent acetic acid.

Glacial acidic acid: It is pure acetic acid

.

[Bill97]

4 hours ago, novacova said:

What I don’t like about using vinegar for cleaning is that it leaves a smelly residue. So if you like your home smelling like a jar of pickles then it’s a good option ????

Rinse with plain water! Magic no smell remains

[novacova]

2 minutes ago, Bill97 said:

Rinse with plain water! Magic no smell remains

Thank you, but I’ll stick to the hydrogen peroxide and sodium bicarbonate. Magic killer no smell ever 

[connda]

Plain, white vinegar is cheaper than dirt and available at any grocery store.

[brianthainess]

My wife makes her own, we have never used it yet, made from all sorts of things even crab shells, its been sitting in a sealed plastic drum for about 5yrs, it's brown. If it dissolves crab shells i think that's the stuff for you, Sorry i can't get a clear answer from her right now, how much it sells for ("me telephone Ma Ma first, for me I don't know) She made it, not her MaMa   anyhow if your interested, let me  know. it could be sent to you. 

[MrJ2U]

Makro.

 

White vinegar. 

4 hours ago, LikeItHot said:

Vinegar: It is a liquid essentially consisting of acetic acid and water. It contains 4 to 6 per cent acetic acid.

Glacial acidic acid: It is pure acetic acid

.

Wouldn't that be overkill or would you have to dilute it with distelled or demineralized water? 

 

Is that good for descaling high end coffee machines? 

[MrJ2U]

4 hours ago, Bill97 said:

Rinse with plain water! Magic no smell remains

And nothing has been sanatised either.  You've just got wet bacteria. 

 

The vinegar, white vinegar smell doesn't last long after drying. 

[phetphet]

15 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Thanks, Man!

 

I know you know your stuff being a chemist.

But, I also have a question about "hard water" deposits and water softeners.  I was told that the filters on offer here use a resin-type or a activated-charcoal type.  If true, which might be more effective?

 

Also, it is my understanding that the water being piped in is ground water/well water.  So then, being just outside of CM proper, what does that do to your equation, ie, what am I dealing with, and will vinegar be a possible solution...

 

Re: drinking water for my own consumption ...  I buy from the company Glacier.  So far, no runs.

 

Also, as you say, hard water can contain calcium sulphate, and I have not had the water here analyzed.

 

My conclusion was that I could just buy a gallon and try it.

If it easily removes the white mineral deposits all over the shower area, then that might be all I need to know.

 

Just as importantly, I think I would do well to flush the hot water heaters with something to clear out deposits that might exist in the piping of the heater.  I figured that vinegar is cheaper than buying some other chemical solution, if it works.

 

I do not see how the use of acetic acid to clean shower and bathroom surfaces might affect the pH of the water coming out of the pipes, however.  And therefore, the chlorine concentration of tap water would not change due to use of vinegar.

 

So...Thanks for the informed reply.

 

But, I will mention that one time, while eating Chinese dumplings at a small restaurant on Green Island off the coast of Taiwan, I asked for vinegar to mix with soy sauce and ginger, for dipping.  They told me "no vinegar".  I explained to them that I ALWAYS have dumplings dipped in vinegar, or I can't eat them. These Chinese are smart. And, they seemed to have gone out and found some industrial grade vinegar and brought it back in a small bowl.  So I added the vinegar to the soy sauce and ginger in my dipping saucer and tasted my first dipped dumpling...

 

WOW, MAN!

That was really HOT burned my tongue.

Still, it was good, but a little bit of that industrial vinegar with your meal goes a long way.

 

Acetic acid comes in all concentrations.

I would advise sticking to the vinegar available at the supermarket for all your culinary purposes. (What's the concentration of supermarket vinegar? IDK..but maybe 5 to 10 percent.)

Stay away from the 45% acetic acid for dipping your dumplings, by all means.

 

Tks again!

 

 

Be careful ingesting strong vinegar.. I believe acetic acid dissolves tooth enamel.

 

Not sure if it's what you want, but they sell white vinegar by the gallon in makro, Lotus, and Big C, if any of them are near you.

[Yellowtail]

Makro has big jugs cheap. 

 

If you have a tank style heater, if it ever gets cold where you are, opening all the hot water taps at the same time until the water runs cold will often cause the scale to break up. 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

8 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Irrespective of whether the water is chlorinated or not, it is better to boil it for drinking.

Chlorine and chloramines are implicated in soft tissue cancer formation. When water has a high proportion of organics in it, correspondingly more chlorine is used to achieve a free chlorine residual.

The act of boiling eliminates chlorine and chloramines via steam distillation.

The soft tissue cancer link is difficult to prove, the excess incidence is buried in the statistical background noise.

Port Augusta is a town in Australia, at the end of Murray River supply. The water is heavily chlorinated to suppress cases of meningitis. Three or four excess cancer deaths in a thousand is not as noticeable as a single case of meningitis; the water authorities are not going to be admitting the drinking water they supply is unsafe.

The other problem with chlorination is it does not kill parasites such as giardia and cryptosporidia. Boiling does.

Did you know about 95% of American towns and cities are actually drinking recycled pee? It's why I mostly drank beer and coffee on my visits there.

So then, this (bacteria, parasites, molds, yeasts) is why I suggested ozonation after filtration. Also, ozonation avoids the pH issue. I once thought of buying such a system for home use, but I have moved locations too often in recent years.

 

Concerning the pee problem in America, I doubt that Americans were drinking pee before 1990, which is the date I left the US, never to return. 

 

My main concern, as I stated from the outset, is the mineral deposits that turn everything white in the bathrooms, and that degrade the plumbing fixtures, and that cause the performance of kitchen appliances such as tea kettles to deteriorate over time.  (How to remove these deposits, and how to avoid them with a resin filter, maybe.)

 

(By the way, concerning the ingestion of pee from water supplies around the world, I do not have a Topic to post about this, but please wait for my future Post about pee as it relates to chicken egg consumption.)

 

Concerning calcium carbonate and magnesium carbonate, and calcium sulfate, and any link to cancer, or any other health issues, I do know of any. About chlorine and cancer potential links, I also do not know.  The Japanese, as I recall, at least in past years, did heavy chlorination of their city water supply.

 

More hazardous for Americans has been Ag discharge into the water supply, meaning E.coli from Ag businesses.  Here again, ozonation might be the best solution. 

 

Re water testing: It would be nice to see free and reliable water testing services on offer. Or, probably better, very low cost testing services which are not tied to the gov.  I am certain that there are VERY FEW households that would not like to see reliable testing of their water, at point of use, performed periodically at low cost.  (I want to know the pH of my water, concentration of calcium/magnesium ions, E.coli concentration, maybe pesticide and chemical contamination testing, whatever.)

 

The bottled water delivered here is cheap. Glacier service is good. I have never tested any bottled water.

 

[GammaGlobulin]

7 hours ago, LikeItHot said:

Vinegar: It is a liquid essentially consisting of acetic acid and water. It contains 4 to 6 per cent acetic acid.

Glacial acidic acid: It is pure acetic acid

.

As the PDF attachment from the CDC stated, using acetic acid in higher concentrations, above 80 percent, should be done with caution due to vapor inhalation potential. The pH of this product is 2.5 as already stated above, and is borderline corrosive.

 

Therefore, the product you show, offering a concentration over 99% would need to be diluted for cleaning purposes.

 

Great price, though!

[GammaGlobulin]

3 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Makro has big jugs cheap. 

 

If you have a tank style heater, if it ever gets cold where you are, opening all the hot water taps at the same time until the water runs cold will often cause the scale to break up. 

 

I was told sort of the same thing by the Stiebel Eltron service person.  He stated that it is often the case that using the water heater at maximum flow, providing that one also has adequate water pressure (water pump pressure), will prevent scaling from occurring.

 

During the Cold season, I am unable to use the heater at full flow because the heater is only 8000 watts max at 240 volts (my voltage here is only 220, so max wattage for heater is only about 7400 watts).

 

But, as you say, after showering, allowing water to run through the machine, full flow and power off, might help prevent mineral scaling from forming.

 

 

[Lacessit]

3 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

So then, this (bacteria, parasites, molds, yeasts) is why I suggested ozonation after filtration. Also, ozonation avoids the pH issue. I once thought of buying such a system for home use, but I have moved locations too often in recent years.

 

Concerning the pee problem in America, I doubt that Americans were drinking pee before 1990, which is the date I left the US, never to return. 

 

My main concern, as I stated from the outset, is the mineral deposits that turn everything white in the bathrooms, and that degrade the plumbing fixtures, and that cause the performance of kitchen appliances such as tea kettles to deteriorate over time.  (How to remove these deposits, and how to avoid them with a resin filter, maybe.)

 

(By the way, concerning the ingestion of pee from water supplies around the world, I do not have a Topic to post about this, but please wait for my future Post about pee as it relates to chicken egg consumption.)

 

Concerning calcium carbonate and magnesium carbonate, and calcium sulfate, and any link to cancer, or any other health issues, I do know of any. About chlorine and cancer potential links, I also do not know.  The Japanese, as I recall, at least in past years, did heavy chlorination of their city water supply.

 

More hazardous for Americans has been Ag discharge into the water supply, meaning E.coli from Ag businesses.  Here again, ozonation might be the best solution. 

 

Re water testing: It would be nice to see free and reliable water testing services on offer. Or, probably better, very low cost testing services which are not tied to the gov.  I am certain that there are VERY FEW households that would not like to see reliable testing of their water, at point of use, performed periodically at low cost.  (I want to know the pH of my water, concentration of calcium/magnesium ions, E.coli concentration, maybe pesticide and chemical contamination testing, whatever.)

 

The bottled water delivered here is cheap. Glacier service is good. I have never tested any bottled water.

 

Ozonation after filtration would work against parasites, ozonation alone would be no better than chlorination.

I am puzzled as to why people insist on having expensive filtration and sterilization systems, requiring regular maintenance, when the simple act of boiling gets the same result or better. Perhaps there is some kind of social cachet attached to such equipment.

[GammaGlobulin]

3 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Ozonation after filtration would work against parasites, ozonation alone would be no better than chlorination.

I am puzzled as to why people insist on having expensive filtration and sterilization systems, requiring regular maintenance, when the simple act of boiling gets the same result or better. Perhaps there is some kind of social cachet attached to such equipment.

Yes.  And....

 

MANY MOONS AGO, I began boiling my drinking water, starting around the year 1979, after moving to Taiwan.

 

When I first arrived in Taipei, I lived in several very nice places, including The Grand Hotel where I stayed continuously for three years (before the fire, much later, gutted it, and before the sleazy contractors replaced the beautiful furnishings, hardwood flooring, beautiful silk rugs, etc., etc., etc., with schlock. And you might recall that The Grand Hotel, at least the second MUCH LARGER addition, was the idea of that Wellesley girl, Madame Chiang.).

 

So anyway, in several of the places I lived, we had a water boiler that would maintain drinking water for tea at 100 degrees C. Oh so convenient, it was. Those large kettles had capacities of around 20 liters, I would guess.  Maybe you have seen similar types of equipment in industrial kitchens. In fact, I love boiling water.

 

When I moved out of these establishments and began living in houses just outside of Taipei city, the ones with those super-fast huntsman spiders, I bought a large kettle to be used on a gas stove that roared. A decent gas burner, I mean the good ones, can put out a lot of heat, and can boil a large stainless steel water kettle in no time.  The trick is to find some way to cool the water back down to room temperature, a process which seemed an age, when one is thirsty. Just placing a 10-liter water kettle in the bathtub is a very slow process, as you may have discovered yourself. Maybe you know the best way to cool a water kettle? I have found that air-flow from a good fan is the fastest way and dissipates heat more rapidly than soaking it in a bathtub of cool water.

 

So, since you asked the question, I think that it is the time required to cool the kettle that causes people to opt for filtration systems.

 

But I definitely agree with you that boiling drinking water is the way to go, absolutely.  Boiling also can help rid the water of chemicals such as chlorine, etc., etc., etc. Insecticides which have leached down to the well water, I dunno.

 

In addition, MANY MOONS AGO I was a much happier camper in certain respects. I prefer the low tech solutions that are better than some of the modern tech being foisted off on us these days.

 

I also fondly recall the time I returned to Naples, FL in the year 1987, after living in Taiwan for a long spell. Even upon my return to the water on offer by the city of Naples, I continued to boil my drinking water, and I looked upon what I had done, and it was good.

 

If I had my wish, I would gladly return to my days at The Grande Hotel, and never wish for more.  Give me wood!  Give me wood over plastic, and natural fibers over Nylon and other man-made polymer-based textiles. There is nothing so fine as a very thick silk rug in the mornings, and incandescent light bulbs shining through expensive lampshades on top of giant porcelain lamp bases resting on a rosewood base, placed on fine Japanese-Hinoki-wood tables and Hinoki-wood dressers with heavy brass pull handles. So, please give me wood!  And give me boiled drinking water, too.

 

I very much fear that our civilized days drew to a close, decades ago, while we were not paying attention.

 

Will the boiling of drinking water release any insecticides and ag chemicals that might or might not be contained in well water?

Do tell, Sir, if you know the answer.

 

Otherwise, I will remain a customer of my full-service Glacier supplier.

I have made friends with the guy who coordinates delivery.

When I call him and speak to him in passa Thai, I think that for him, just hearing my broken Thai, makes his day.

He is always very helpful, for sure.

 

Having written this reply to your comment, I must admit that I am entertaining second thoughts about a possible conversion to boiled water, and a reversion to what I recall as being happier days.

 

I could buy a bottle of gas, and a 15 liter water kettle, and a single burner gas cooker putting out 25,000 BTU/hr, just the same as I once used.

I would not need to worry about cooling time, as I now have a collection of about FIVE plastic 20-liter water bottles.

Of course, this might really heat up my kitchen during the Hot Season, which would not be good.

And, I am still a bit concerned about the well water at this site.

I will consider you boiling-of-drinking-water suggestion, and get back to you in coming days.

 

Note: Wood is Good. And, Plastic is Bad. The real thing is always better.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Yes.  And....

 

MANY MOONS AGO, I began boiling my drinking water, starting around the year 1979, after moving to Taiwan.

 

When I first arrived in Taipei, I lived in several very nice places, including The Grand Hotel where I stayed continuously for three years (before the fire, much later, gutted it, and before the sleazy contractors replaced the beautiful furnishings, hardwood flooring, beautiful silk rugs, etc., etc., etc., with schlock. And you might recall that The Grand Hotel, at least the second MUCH LARGER addition, was the idea of that Wellesley girl, Madame Chiang.).

 

So anyway, in several of the places I lived, we had a water boiler that would maintain drinking water for tea at 100 degrees C. Oh so convenient, it was. Those large kettles had capacities of around 20 liters, I would guess.  Maybe you have seen similar types of equipment in industrial kitchens. In fact, I love boiling water.

 

When I moved out of these establishments and began living in houses just outside of Taipei city, the ones with those super-fast huntsman spiders, I bought a large kettle to be used on a gas stove that roared. A decent gas burner, I mean the good ones, can put out a lot of heat, and can boil a large stainless steel water kettle in no time.  The trick is to find some way to cool the water back down to room temperature, a process which seemed an age, when one is thirsty. Just placing a 10-liter water kettle in the bathtub is a very slow process, as you may have discovered yourself. Maybe you know the best way to cool a water kettle? I have found that air-flow from a good fan is the fastest way and dissipates heat more rapidly than soaking it in a bathtub of cool water.

 

So, since you asked the question, I think that it is the time required to cool the kettle that causes people to opt for filtration systems.

 

But I definitely agree with you that boiling drinking water is the way to go, absolutely.  Boiling also can help rid the water of chemicals such as chlorine, etc., etc., etc. Insecticides which have leached down to the well water, I dunno.

 

In addition, MANY MOONS AGO I was a much happier camper in certain respects. I prefer the low tech solutions that are better than some of the modern tech being foisted off on us these days.

 

I also fondly recall the time I returned to Naples, FL in the year 1987, after living in Taiwan for a long spell. Even upon my return to the water on offer by the city of Naples, I continued to boil my drinking water, and I looked upon what I had done, and it was good.

 

If I had my wish, I would gladly return to my days at The Grande Hotel, and never wish for more.  Give me wood!  Give me wood over plastic, and natural fibers over Nylon and other man-made polymer-based textiles. There is nothing so fine as a very thick silk rug in the mornings, and incandescent light bulbs shining through expensive lampshades on top of giant porcelain lamp bases resting on a rosewood base, placed on fine Japanese-Hinoki-wood tables and Hinoki-wood dressers with heavy brass pull handles. So, please give me wood!  And give me boiled drinking water, too.

 

I very much fear that our civilized days drew to a close, decades ago, while we were not paying attention.

 

Will the boiling of drinking water release any insecticides and ag chemicals that might or might not be contained in well water?

Do tell, Sir, if you know the answer.

 

Otherwise, I will remain a customer of my full-service Glacier supplier.

I have made friends with the guy who coordinates delivery.

When I call him and speak to him in passa Thai, I think that for him, just hearing my broken Thai, makes his day.

He is always very helpful, for sure.

 

Having written this reply to your comment, I must admit that I am entertaining second thoughts about a possible conversion to boiled water, and a reversion to what I recall as being happier days.

 

I could buy a bottle of gas, and a 15 liter water kettle, and a single burner gas cooker putting out 25,000 BTU/hr, just the same as I once used.

I would not need to worry about cooling time, as I now have a collection of about FIVE plastic 20-liter water bottles.

Of course, this might really heat up my kitchen during the Hot Season, which would not be good.

And, I am still a bit concerned about the well water at this site.

I will consider you boiling-of-drinking-water suggestion, and get back to you in coming days.

 

Note: Wood is Good. And, Plastic is Bad. The real thing is always better.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Water out of a well ( groundwater) will sometimes contain pesticides, herbicides and other agricultural chemicals, depending on its proximity to sources of said chemicals.

IMO it is doubtful whether boiling well water would eliminate such compounds, although some of them may degrade with heat. The only way to be certain is activated carbon filtration.

Tap water supplied by most water authorities would be safer in that respect, because the contaminants tend to be absorbed and precipitated out during floc clarification. I only boil tap water for drinking, untreated well water is very probably unsuitable for anything except showering, and maybe not even then.

I have traveled to many countries, and always boil what I drink, leaving it to cool down overnight for the next days' supply. I've been doing that since i was a trainee chemist, and can say I have never contracted a water-borne disease in about 60 years.