Landlord won't give back 2 security deposits, am I legally allowed to damage to the property?

[MakeYouPay]

So, I gave notice to break lease for different reasons but the company that manages the rental even refuses to let the owner know about my request to get the deposits back, as well as told me that he will say no for sure.

 

I know i'm legally not allowed to steal appliances off the apartment to make back my loss that im legally owed, but I think I'm legally allowed to break the furnitures up to a total cost of my deposit, just to make sure, am I correct? I didn't know at the time but the deposits are unlawful too, I have paid 2 upfront security deposits and 1 month advance rental payment for a total of 75000 baht, 50000 of which are the 2 deposits they refuse to give me back.

[stoner]

one is never legally allowed to damage others property. 

[MakeYouPay]

1 minute ago, stoner said:

one is never legally allowed to damage others property. 

Isn't the security deposit there to pay for damages? I just want to make sure they don't pocket it. with the inconvenience of having to take it out and get new one, it will be a lesson that next time they might just as well give it back as it is the law and don't <deleted> around.

Edited July 24, 2023 by MakeYouPay

[simon43]

So let me understand this correctly.  You have leased a property and paid  2 deposits (why are they unlawful if that's what the landlord required?).  Now you have broken your lease (does your rental contract allow you to break the lease without financial penalty?).  Now you want to also break the furniture?

 

Am I correct in my understanding?

[MakeYouPay]

12 minutes ago, simon43 said:

So let me understand this correctly.  You have leased a property and paid  2 deposits (why are they unlawful if that's what the landlord required?).  Now you have broken your lease (does your rental contract allow you to break the lease without financial penalty?).  Now you want to also break the furniture?

 

Am I correct in my understanding?

I understand your thone but it's because the understanding is wrong either yours or mine on the topic, and i'd be happy to change my view, this is why i signed up here anyway.

 

It's unlawful because the thai law states (as i found out later) that they cannot require 2 upfront monthly deposits and 1 monthly rent advance.

There is a max of 1 security deposit and 1 month advance as in I have requested a refund of one and they denied it.

 

in regards to the contract and lease term, the law states that it's possible to break the lease lawfully if over half of the period has been completed independently of what the contract states as long as i give 30 days notice (that i gave).

 

correct me if i'm wrong.

 

I don't go around destroying property for fun, I have followed the rules and im getting scammed by my understanding, its just right they don't get to pocket the money but have to spend the money thats supposedly deposited for damage for actual damages. if my understanding is wrong then i'll accept it, thats why im here, not to brag or something.

Edited July 24, 2023 by MakeYouPay

[KhaoNiaw]

10 minutes ago, MakeYouPay said:

I understand your thone but it's because the understanding is wrong either yours or mine on the topic, and i'd be happy to change my view, this is why i signed up here anyway.

 

It's unlawful because the thai law states (as i found out later) that they cannot require 2 upfront monthly deposits and 1 monthly rent advance.

There is a max of 1 security deposit and 1 month advance as in I have requested a refund of one and they denied it.

 

in regards to the contract and lease term, the law states that it's possible to break the lease lawfully if over half of the period has been completed independently of what the contract states as long as i give 30 days notice (that i gave).

 

correct me if i'm wrong.

I think that law only applied to larger scale landlords that are effectively a business and renting out multiple condos. 

[MakeYouPay]

1 minute ago, KhaoNiaw said:

I think that law only applied to larger scale landlords that are effectively a business and renting out multiple condos. 

5 or more properties, not whole condos, and my knowledge is that they do own and rent out multiple properties since this property was vacant since 3 years and they would rather keep it vacant than rented for less and have an agency that manages rental only for them, i can't see anyone that doesn't own dozens of property be able to not care about a single property being rented.

[Felton Jarvis]

One thing that I have learned to accept while living in Thailand is that in any business dealings with a Thai person…….YOU LOSE!!!!  It’s not right, it’s not foir, but this is Thailand. What would you possibly expect???  Put it behind you and move on.  Don’t give the landlord a reason to call the police.

Edited July 24, 2023 by Felton Jarvis

[MakeYouPay]

1 minute ago, Felton Jarvis said:

One thing that I have learned to accept while living in Thailand is that in any business dealings with a Thai person…….YOU LOSE!!!!  It’s not right, it’s not foir, but this is Thailand. What would you possible expect???  Put it behind you and move on.  Don’t give the landlord a reason to call the police.

I'm learning this the hard way too.. my question tho is if can they call the police for damages if the deposits are actually there for damages?

[bignok]

75,000 ?

 

8,000 a month in hotel. Only 500 deposit.

 

You got ripped off.

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

Might want to read up on Section 358 of the Thai Criminal Code:

 

Section 358. Mischief

Whoever, damaging, destroying, causing the depreciation of value or rendering useless the property belonging to the other person or which the other person to be the co-owner, such person to be said to commit mischief, and shall be imprisoned not out of three years or fined not more of six thousand Baht, or both.

[MakeYouPay]

Just now, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

Might want to read up on Section 358 of the Thai Criminal Code:

 

Section 358. Mischief

Whoever, damaging, destroying, causing the depreciation of value or rendering useless the property belonging to the other person or which the other person to be the co-owner, such person to be said to commit mischief, and shall be imprisoned not out of three years or fined not more of six thousand Baht, or both.

Thank you, but i don't understand then,

They can't whitheld the deposit for tear caused due to time but it's criminal to cause damage? and how else would damage occur that is not due to time (wear) that would allow for the security deposit to be whitheld?

[MakeYouPay]

4 minutes ago, bignok said:

75,000 ?

 

8,000 a month in hotel. Only 500 deposit.

 

You got ripped off.

the rent's 25k ????

actually 30 if you factor in 5k for electricity... (ac)

Edited July 24, 2023 by MakeYouPay

[bignok]

5 minutes ago, MakeYouPay said:

the rent's 25k ????

actually 30 if you factor in 5k for electricity... (ac)

Thais hate refunds. Always be careful paying up front.

[Sandboxer]

The funniest thing here is your username.

[brianthainess]

24 minutes ago, MakeYouPay said:

I'm learning this the hard way too.. my question tho is if can they call the police for damages if the deposits are actually there for damages?

Aggressive behavior, willful damage could be charges brought against you. just saying 

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

23 minutes ago, MakeYouPay said:

Thank you, but i don't understand then,

They can't whitheld the deposit for tear caused due to time but it's criminal to cause damage? and how else would damage occur that is not due to time (wear) that would allow for the security deposit to be whitheld?

Normal rental contracts will not hold the tenant responsible for normal wear and tear.

 

In addition to normal wear and tear, there is damage due to negligence. Negligence is when someone does not take sufficient care or precautions and loss or damage ensues.

 

For example, a tenant may forget to close a window when leaving the house and while the tenant is out a rainstorm causes water damage to the rental property due to the window being left open. The tenant was negligent in forgetting to close the window and thus the ensuing damage is his responsibility. 

 

Then there is intentional damage which may be subject to Section 358 of the Thai Criminal Code.

 

The landlord's refusal to return the deposit does not negate the effect of Section 358 if the landlord's property is intentionally damaged.

 

 

 

Edited July 24, 2023 by Etaoin Shrdlu
spelling

[MakeYouPay]

7 minutes ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

Normal rental contracts will not hold the tenant responsible for normal wear and tear.

 

In addition to normal wear and tear, there is damage due to negligence. Negligence is when someone does not take sufficient care or precautions and loss or damage ensues.

 

For example, a tenant may forget to close a window when leaving the house and while the tenant is out a rainstorm causes water damage to the rental property due to the window being left open. The tenant was negligent in forgetting to close the window and thus the ensuing damage is his responsibility. 

 

Then there is intentional damage which may be subject to Section 358 of the Thai Criminal Code.

 

The landlord's refusal to return the deposit does not negate the effect of Section 358 if the landlord's property is intentionally damaged.

 

 

 

thank you.

I think topic closed then, thank you,

[NoDisplayName]

1 hour ago, MakeYouPay said:

So, I gave notice to break lease for different reasons

What is the exact wording of the contract you signed?

What exactly did you agree to?

[JimTripper]

Yeah that's weird when your going through a third party and your not in direct contact with the landlord.

My place is like that also. I can't get the actual landlords contact information and only have their signature on the lease. So it cuts off communication and you can't really tell who knows what and who has refunded what. For all you know the landlord paid the manager the deposit refund and they just kept it.

Some realtors do this also, they are really managing the property, not just sales agents, so you need to go through them the whole time. You make payments through them but the contract says refunds are at the discretion of the landlord.

Edited July 24, 2023 by JimTripper

[Celsius]

You may end up without a passport, but the upside is you will get free accomodation.

 

BTW 2 month deposits are perfectly legal and you are wrong in just about everything you wrote in your post.

Edited July 24, 2023 by Celsius

[CharlieKo]

40 minutes ago, MakeYouPay said:

thank you.

I think topic closed then, thank you,

If you are so certain of your case, then take legal advice, and then use the law to get back what you feel entitled to. Your idea of a solution is just nut's unless you are looking for trouble. 

[Chivas]

I'm off to get a sack of popcorn........

 

This one's gonna run and run   ????

[nightfox]

If you really want your deposit bad enough then contact a lawyer and take your landlord to court. 

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, MakeYouPay said:

So, I gave notice to break lease for different reasons

 

2 hours ago, MakeYouPay said:

but I think I'm legally allowed to break the furnitures up to a total cost of my deposit

Go ahead! What can possibly go wrong?

I am not so sure if we will read your reply here. But I am sure we will read about it. Great idea! 

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, MakeYouPay said:

my question tho is if can they call the police for damages if the deposits are actually there for damages?

Don't worry. When the police arrives just tell them what you wrote above. I am sure the police will right away arrest the landlord because he is such a bad guy that he wants to keep your money. 

[Dan O]

2 hours ago, MakeYouPay said:

I'm learning this the hard way too.. my question tho is if can they call the police for damages if the deposits are actually there for damages?

yes they can and you will lose. 

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, JimTripper said:

Yeah that's weird when your going through a third party and your not in direct contact with the landlord.

My place is like that also. I can't get the actual landlords contact information and only have their signature on the lease. So it cuts off communication and you can't really tell who knows what and who has refunded what. For all you know the landlord paid the manager the deposit refund and they just kept it.

Some realtors do this also, they are really managing the property, not just sales agents, so you need to go through them the whole time. You make payments through them but the contract says refunds are at the discretion of the landlord.

And obviously there will be some owners who are happy that someone does all that for them, so they won't be bothered by people with unrealistic expectations...

[Dan O]

1 hour ago, JimTripper said:

Yeah that's weird when your going through a third party and your not in direct contact with the landlord.

My place is like that also. I can't get the actual landlords contact information and only have their signature on the lease. So it cuts off communication and you can't really tell who knows what and who has refunded what. For all you know the landlord paid the manager the deposit refund and they just kept it.

Some realtors do this also, they are really managing the property, not just sales agents, so you need to go through them the whole time. You make payments through them but the contract says refunds are at the discretion of the landlord.

according to the OP the landlord hasnt been contacted just the rental agency. I think he may find out (maybe not) that the rental agent is the one keeping the deposits and the landlord is disconnected for whats going on like you would think or has an agreement with the agent 

[mstevens]

3 hours ago, MakeYouPay said:

So, I gave notice to break lease

What does it say in your contract? Usually, if you break the lease and don't fulfil the full term of the contract, you forfeit the deposit. If there is no clause in your contract that says you can give x number of months notice and you will then get your deposit back then I am afraid you're out of luck.

 

There is a reason why a lease is signed for a lease of a certain period. The length of the lease gets the tenant a lower monthy rate i.e. a 12 month lease might get 25K / month, 6 months might be 30K / month, 1 month might be 60K / month. A shorter lease invariably means a higher monthly rate.