Company Trying to make my wife take a pay cut? Legal?

[RAZZELL]

Some background.

 

My wife has worked in the retail sector for more than 20+ years including in the UK.

 

For the last 6 years or so she has held management positions in Thailand in the "Luxury goods sector".

 

The last year or so her contract has been around 110k a month (from memory) plus bonuses etc. Her stated position is "Manager".

 

Recently there has been a change of "Country Head" and they are trying to cut costs/bring in their own team.

 

She has been told they are going to demote her to "Senior Sales" and make her take a pay cut to 50k.

 

Obviously this is unacceptable to her and she wants to resign.

 

What are the legalities of this situation under Thai Labour Law?

 

Surely it would be construed as some sort of "constructive or unfair dismissal".

 

Anyone know a good lawyer who can perhaps draft a letter to HR or the Country Head?

 

Thanks for any advice.

 

Edited July 25, 2023 by RAZZELL

[it is what it is]

leave.

 

if she has the experience you say and is half decent at her job she should and get another job no problem.

 

why work for an employer that doesn't respect and appreciate you?

[Ralf001]

Having done similar at my work recently.

 

Can demote ones position, cannot reduce salary.... if we did the Union made it clear they will take it to Labour court.

 

Reason behind demotion worked though, employee hated the new job and the change was seen as a loss of face, he resigned.

[scorecard]

Go to the labour dept., HO at Din Daeng, the service department on the ground floor. They are good listeners, plenty of English if needed, they don't bite, they've helped a lot of people, Thai and farang.

[scubascuba3]

It would be a mistake to quit, that's what they want, see a lawyer, a few thousand well spent.

 

But she could be coming to the end of the road there one way or another

Edited July 25, 2023 by scubascuba3

[FritsSikkink]

3 hours ago, it is what it is said:

leave.

 

if she has the experience you say and is half decent at her job she should and get another job no problem.

 

why work for an employer that doesn't respect and appreciate you?

Do NOT leave, that is what they are trying to force on her to avoid paying severance pay. 

Don't accept the pay cut and go to the labor office, they will help for free. No need to hire a lawyer.

Get the severance pay and then find a new job.

[RAZZELL]

5 hours ago, it is what it is said:

leave.

 

if she has the experience you say and is half decent at her job she should and get another job no problem.

 

why work for an employer that doesn't respect and appreciate you?

My wife is in her 40s and it is difficult to find another job.

[Tropicalevo]

She should go to her local social security office and talk to the staff there.

They will tell her exactly what her rights are.

Take any relevant correspondence.

[RAZZELL]

Unbeknown to me they had pressurised bullied her into resigning thai style/loss of face etc.

[realfunster]

5 hours ago, it is what it is said:

leave.

 

if she has the experience you say and is half decent at her job she should and get another job no problem.

 

why work for an employer that doesn't respect and appreciate you?

No, no & thrice no.

 

What they are doing is illegal under Labour Law and I would refuse the offer and look negotiate a settlement based around aforementioned Labour Law, which would be an entitlement of 8 months (240 days) severance pay due after 6+ years of service. So, as a starting point - THB 880k - not to be sniffed at.

 

Now, despite the law, both sides have cards they can play in this situation (the Company can go the hard ball route if so minded...i.e keep her on current salary of THB 110k but make her life very 'difficult' - no constructive dismissal in Thailand I am aware of) so this will likely become a negotiation and for reasons of expediency your wife may prefer to avoid the full blown Labour Law/Labour Court route (assuming the Company will not readily want to offer an 8 months' severance) so you want to have a realistic negotiation target in mind, let's say accepting 3-6 months as a 'goodwill' payment upon departure. Of course, the Labour Court option is always there but it will be stressful and take some time. 

 

Then, with either her wad of negotiated cash or Labour Court case under way, she can look for her new job...

[realfunster]

18 minutes ago, RAZZELL said:

Unbeknown to me they had pressurised bullied her into resigning thai style/loss of face etc.

OK - just saw this but it's what I had alluded to in my previous post about the Company going a bit more hard-ball. The stories I hear from Thai HR departments never cease to amaze...

 

Anyway, think my comments on strategy are still applicable. Both sides would probably prefer a quicker negotiated settlement reasonably fair for all parties but the Company will also know a Labour Law case is potentially damaging for their image, costs them time & money and would be one they have a high probability of losing. Damages above severance due can also be given to a claimant by the judge. 

[proton]

110k in sales in Thailand?, she's been over paid!

[RAZZELL]

2 minutes ago, proton said:

110k in sales in Thailand?, she's been over paid!

You obviously don't know the Thai Labour Market.

 

Many Management "luxury goods" jobs available for 100k + look on Jobs DD etc.

[RAZZELL]

Well, I've written a nice letter with a bit of "legalese" and the hint at Thai Labour Court, unlimited fines, negative publicity etc.

 

Lets see what the HR Departments in Thailand and Singapore make of that! 

 

RAZZ

 

 

[proton]

7 minutes ago, RAZZELL said:

You obviously don't know the Thai Labour Market.

 

Many Management "luxury goods" jobs available for 100k + look on Jobs DD etc.

well she should be able to get another one then at that price if many jobs going, more than Drs, Politicians and Dentists! 

[TravelerEastWest]

Razz,

 

Good luck to you and your wife!

 

A thought after she gets her severance pay - maybe open an online business?

Edited July 26, 2023 by TravelerEastWest

[ChipButty]

17 minutes ago, proton said:

110k in sales in Thailand?, she's been over paid!

You would be amazed at some of the salaries in sales and marketing one guy I know who is head of marketing for a international company drives around in a brand new Merc, he is currently in France, a couple girls i know are make up artist who get employed the fashion magazines and the fashion shows around the world, 

 

[JonnyF]

They should really pay her severance pay and then re-hire her in the new position (assuming she wants the new position).

 

She should refuse to accept the demotion and pay cut and see an employment lawyer. Courts generally side with the employee rather than the employer here and the law is pretty clear. 

[RAZZELL]

17 minutes ago, proton said:

well she should be able to get another one then at that price if many jobs going, more than Drs, Politicians and Dentists! 

If you can't add anything positive don't bother.

 

You obviously have no idea what International Companies pay!

[RAZZELL]

32 minutes ago, proton said:

110k in sales in Thailand?, she's been over paid!

What are you a bus driver? 

[TimeMachine]

After being on such a good salary I would just accept it and work half the effort.  Fair deal then. 

[blackcab]

Before you do anything, including firing off letters, contact the Department of Labour Protection and Welfare. Ask them exactly what steps to take and what to write in the letter.

 

Remember you are writing your letter as potential evidence in the Labour Court at a future date. Don't mention things like negative publicity as it comes across as threatening.

 

Telephone: 1506 Extension 3

Email: [email protected]

Line: https://lin.ee/B61BIi4

[FritsSikkink]

1 hour ago, RAZZELL said:

My wife is in her 40s and it is difficult to find another job.

For managers in Thailand it is good to be a bit older. 

[FritsSikkink]

1 hour ago, RAZZELL said:

Unbeknown to me they had pressurised bullied her into resigning thai style/loss of face etc.

Still go to the Labor office, they can help.

[RAZZELL]

1 minute ago, FritsSikkink said:

Still go to the Labor office, they can help.

She's calling them now.

[KhunLA]

I'm not a labor lawyer ... but, if her employment is dependent on 'contracts', and her current one is expiring, it would seem they don't have to renew it, or can offer her a different position, new contract (which it appears they have) when her contract does expire.

 

Seems to be legal, in that aspect.  Not forcing her to accept or leave.  Until her present contract expires.  If this is a merger or take over, then a very common practice.

[RAZZELL]

1 minute ago, KhunLA said:

I'm not a labor lawyer ... but, if her employment is dependent on 'contracts', and her current one is expiring, it would seem they don't have to renew it, or can offer her a different position, new contract (which it appears they have) when her contract does expire.

 

Seems to be legal, in that aspect.  Not forcing her to accept or leave.  Until her present contract expires.  If this is a merger or take over, then a very common practice.

She signed a new contract in April 2023.

 

 

[KhunLA]

1 minute ago, RAZZELL said:

She signed a new contract in April 2023.

They would have to honor that, or find just cause to cancel it.  I'd start looking for new employment if I was her.  

[jaideedave]

3 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

Do NOT leave, that is what they are trying to force on her to avoid paying severance pay. 

Don't accept the pay cut and go to the labor office, they will help for free. No need to hire a lawyer.

Get the severance pay and then find a new job.

Sound advice.A Thai lady friend was caught in a similar situation.She worked for Thai/Japanese company for several years.They promoted her and then piled on so many extra duties that she barley coped and made it virtually impossible to continue.She quit.Therefore she lost any severance she would have gotten otherwise.

Dirty rotten b_____ds.

[FritsSikkink]

38 minutes ago, RAZZELL said:

She signed a new contract in April 2023.

 

 

If they sign a new contract on a yearly basis for 6 years, the company would still have to pay severance for 6 years when the last contract isn't renewed. Labor office doesn't fall for this trick.

Edited July 26, 2023 by FritsSikkink