Company Trying to make my wife take a pay cut? Legal?

[blackcab]

43 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

I'm not a labor lawyer ... but, if her employment is dependent on 'contracts', and her current one is expiring, it would seem they don't have to renew it, or can offer her a different position, new contract (which it appears they have) when her contract does expire.

 

Seems to be legal, in that aspect.  Not forcing her to accept or leave.  Until her present contract expires.  If this is a merger or take over, then a very common practice.

 

Continuous employment is based on total duration, not contract length.

 

The reason for this is that all nefarious employers would have to do to evade severance payments is issue 6 monthly contracts, then nobody would ever be eligible for severance.

 

If fixed term contracts are being used in this way then it is a must to talk to the Labour Protection and Welfare Department.

[GarryP]

2 hours ago, RAZZELL said:

Well, I've written a nice letter with a bit of "legalese" and the hint at Thai Labour Court, unlimited fines, negative publicity etc.

 

Lets see what the HR Departments in Thailand and Singapore make of that! 

 

RAZZ

 

 

Good luck. Hope things work out in your wife's favour. 

[RAZZELL]

Thanks for all the suggestions and positive advice 

 

This is when this Forum is at its best.

 

 

RAZZ

[RAZZELL]

12 hours ago, blackcab said:

Before you do anything, including firing off letters, contact the Department of Labour Protection and Welfare. Ask them exactly what steps to take and what to write in the letter.

 

Remember you are writing your letter as potential evidence in the Labour Court at a future date. Don't mention things like megative publicity as it comes across as threatening.

 

Telephone: 1506 Extension 3

Email: [email protected]

Line: https://lin.ee/B61BIi4

My wife spoke to the Labour Protection Department today - they advised her to "withdraw her resignation" and then see what happens. They reiterated that what the Company are attempting to do is illegal.

 

The email/letter has been written - she will send it first thing in the morning so they have no time to "collude" before she goes to work. She is also sending it to the overall Head of APAC and the APAC HR Chief who probably know nothing about what is going on in Thailand.

 

Here's hoping.

Edited July 26, 2023 by RAZZELL

[1FinickyOne]

21 hours ago, RAZZELL said:

My wife is in her 40s and it is difficult to find another job.

Well, like everything else, if nobody else will pay her that much, then that is her market value. It's not nice but if someone else can do her job, happily at half the salary, then that is her worth - - 110k sounds like a lot of money here. How much does a doctor earn? 

[TravelerEastWest]

9 hours ago, RAZZELL said:

My wife spoke to the Labour Protection Department today - they advised her to "withdraw her resignation" and then see what happens. They reiterated that what the Company are attempting to do is illegal.

 

The email/letter has been written - she will send it first thing in the morning so they have no time to "collude" before she goes to work. She is also sending it to the overall Head of APAC and the APAC HR Chief who probably know nothing about what is going on in Thailand.

 

Here's hoping.

Sounds like she will win in the end!

 

Let us know what happens.

[CecilM]

Legal?

No.

Does it happen?
Yes.

Do you have a chance to win in court?

Maybe.

(I remember my company saying we have better lawyers and more patience/time than staff.)

[marin]

22 hours ago, RAZZELL said:

You obviously don't know the Thai Labour Market.

 

Many Management "luxury goods" jobs available for 100k + look on Jobs DD etc.

With her years of experience and expertise it would seem she could easily start over. They are not going to be looking for spring chickens in this senior position. 

[hotchilli]

On 7/26/2023 at 2:28 AM, RAZZELL said:

She has been told they are going to demote her to "Senior Sales" and make her take a pay cut to 50k.

 

Obviously this is unacceptable to her and she wants to resign.

Possibly they can change her "title" but cannot cut her pay... 

Do not resign as that would fall into their plan.

Go to the labour office in Bkk and get advice, if they want her out they will have to make her redundant and pay severance.

[Satcommlee]

Do not resign! Severence is generous in Thailand, she should refuse completely and force thier hand!

Edited July 27, 2023 by Satcommlee

[FritsSikkink]

2 hours ago, 1FinickyOne said:

Well, like everything else, if nobody else will pay her that much, then that is her market value. It's not nice but if someone else can do her job, happily at half the salary, then that is her worth - - 110k sounds like a lot of money here. How much does a doctor earn? 

110K is nothing out of the ordinary.

[FritsSikkink]

1 hour ago, CecilM said:

Do you have a chance to win in court?

Maybe.

(I remember my company saying we have better lawyers and more patience/time than staff.)

She WILL win in court. Your company will have to fight the lawyers of the Labor Department not the employee.

The person responsible for the illegal action could actually facing jail time. HR in general shts their pants for the Labor Department. Just bluff poker from your company. 

[1FinickyOne]

57 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

110K is nothing out of the ordinary.

So, there must be a reason that they don't want to pay her.... I know when I had decent employees I paid them well because I wanted them to both stay and be satisfied.

[FritsSikkink]

12 minutes ago, 1FinickyOne said:

So, there must be a reason that they don't want to pay her.... I know when I had decent employees I paid them well because I wanted them to both stay and be satisfied.

Loads of companies had / have problems because of the Covid situation and are in recovery mode. This comes with reorganizations and cutting costs.

[RAZZELL]

7 hours ago, 1FinickyOne said:

Well, like everything else, if nobody else will pay her that much, then that is her market value. It's not nice but if someone else can do her job, happily at half the salary, then that is her worth - - 110k sounds like a lot of money here. How much does a doctor earn? 

Look on Jobs DB.

 

Every boutique Manager in the "Luxury goods space" is on about 80-120k.

 

A Retail Manger maybe 150k.

 

Country Manager/Director 150-350k.

 

They are multi-million us dollar businesses.

 

eg this one in Phuket 90-150k!  (I think it is for Louis Vuitton)

 

https://th.jobsdb.com/th/search-jobs/luxury-retail/1

 

And as an aside you won't believe this - but when my wife had a previous job here one of her quarterly bonuses was £17k!!!

Edited July 27, 2023 by RAZZELL

[RAZZELL]

3 hours ago, 1FinickyOne said:

So, there must be a reason that they don't want to pay her.... I know when I had decent employees I paid them well because I wanted them to both stay and be satisfied.

There has been a change of country manager/director and also HR head. What do new people do? "I'm going to improve the bottom line by cutting costs!"

 

 

[RAZZELL]

4 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

She WILL win in court. Your company will have to fight the lawyers of the Labor Department not the employee.

The person responsible for the illegal action could actually facing jail time. HR in general shts their pants for the Labor Department. Just bluff poker from your company. 

Exactly.

 

I have a "farang" mate who got made redundant without severance a few years ago. He went to the Labor Office and as soon as they got involved the company coughed up.

 

Also, what some people commentating don't understand is in Thailand you are not hiring a lawyer and going to court, the Labor Office (ie a govt department) goes into bat on your behalf.

 

Do you think a Thai judge goes against "the Government"?

 

An update - as previously mentioned yesterday my wife contacted the Labor Office who said "withdraw your resignation"! Then see how the company responds.

 

This morning she messaged HR Head APAC (who obviously is oblivious to what is going on) who then scheduled an appointment and they talked for an hour.

 

She then sent a rather long email written by yours truly to all of them.

 

She is off work today but this should set the cat amongst the pigeons.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 27, 2023 by RAZZELL

[Purdey]

Reducing pay is a no-no with the labor department. Go there for advice.

[RAZZELL]

Just now, Purdey said:

Reducing pay is a no-no with the labor department. Go there for advice.

She already called. See above.

 

 

[Jimjim1]

On 7/26/2023 at 3:16 AM, RAZZELL said:

Lets see what the HR Departments in Thailand and Singapore make of that! 

 

If settlement becomes the only way forward and your wife wants to find work elsewhere she should insist that part of the settlement is a glowing reference otherwise the age of your wife will have no relevance, The acid remarks offered by the existing company to any future company she makes application to will destroy her chances irrespective of her ability.

[FritsSikkink]

58 minutes ago, RAZZELL said:

Exactly.

 

I have a "farang" mate who got made redundant without severance a few years ago. He went to the Labor Office and as soon as they got involved the company coughed up.

 

Also, what some people commentating don't understand is in Thailand you are not hiring a lawyer and going to court, the Labor Office (ie a govt department) goes into bat on your behalf.

 

Do you think a Thai judge goes against "the Government"?

 

An update - as previously mentioned yesterday my wife contacted the Labor Office who said "withdraw your resignation"! Then see how the company responds.

 

This morning she messaged HR Head APAC (who obviously is oblivious to what is going on) who then scheduled an appointment and they talked for an hour.

 

She then sent a rather long email written by yours truly to all of them.

 

She is off work today but this should set the cat amongst the pigeons.

 

 

 

 

I wouldn't write mails yourself, let the Labor Department sort it out all alone. They do it on a daily basis.

[Liverpool Lou]

On 7/26/2023 at 9:41 AM, RAZZELL said:

On 7/26/2023 at 9:22 AM, proton said:

well she should be able to get another one then at that price if many jobs going, more than Drs, Politicians and Dentists! 

If you can't add anything positive don't bother.

Quite right, no one should be allowed to express their views on a forum!

[Liverpool Lou]

On 7/26/2023 at 9:41 AM, RAZZELL said:

What are you a bus driver? 

 

On 7/26/2023 at 9:41 AM, RAZZELL said:

If you can't add anything positive don't bother.

The irony!

Edited July 27, 2023 by Liverpool Lou

[Hugh Jarse]

On 7/26/2023 at 9:08 AM, proton said:

110k in sales in Thailand?, she's been over paid!

How does this contribute to the question posed?

 Commen

 

[RAZZELL]

5 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

 

!

Guilty! 

[RAZZELL]

8 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Quite right, no one should be allowed to express their views on a forum!

Of course people can express views, like me calling out his nonsense.

 

Not everyone is on Thai minimum wage.

 

All the Thai people on my estate have massive houses and flash cars. One fella has two Lamborghinis!

 

 

 

 

[1FinickyOne]

6 hours ago, RAZZELL said:

There has been a change of country manager/director and also HR head. What do new people do? "I'm going to improve the bottom line by cutting costs!"

 

 

she must be quite competent to reach such a salary here... but this is life - things like this happen. I am sorry for her troubles. 

[RAZZELL]

1 hour ago, 1FinickyOne said:

she must be quite competent to reach such a salary here... but this is life - things like this happen. I am sorry for her troubles. 

Thanks for your best wishes.

 

Let's see what happens when she is back at work! 

[TravelerEastWest]

16 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

I wouldn't write mails yourself, let the Labor Department sort it out all alone. They do it on a daily basis.

Good idea!

[RAZZELL]

22 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

I wouldn't write mails yourself, let the Labor Department sort it out all alone. They do it on a daily basis.

This first one was to HR in Singapore etc the business language is in English.

 

It was nothing too dramatic, just stated her history with company, her contract details, that after taking advice she thought what they were attempting to do was illegal, her intent to honour her legally binding contract, and finally that she would have no hesitation in going to the Labor Department etc.

 

 

Edited July 28, 2023 by RAZZELL