Denied entry.

[paulikens]

Just now, BritTim said:

You can return immediately, with the SETV you already hold, if entering through an entry point that follows the law. Airport immigration has absolutely no business overruling the decision of Penang consular officials to issue you a tourist visa.

 

By the way, your denial of entry stamp contains a "reason" under Section 12 of the Immigration Act for the denied entry. They use Thai numerals, but if you have a Thai who can tell you which reason they cited, that would be interesting. In most cases in the past, they claim that you have no visible means of support for your stay in Thailand (code for they believe, without evidence, that you are working here without a work permit). They tell you the real reason, but this is not a valid justification for the denied entry.

@BritTim  I think that's what they was applying, That i couldn't support myself.  But If i immediately try to get in at another entry point won't my passport flag up?

[paulikens]

Just now, darrendsd said:

OP depending on how desperate you are to enter you can appeal this decision

 

I don't know all the ins and outs of this process but worth a try

 

You obviously need to do this straight away, ask to see a immigration officer and tell them you want to appeal and see what happens from there

@darrendsd  Tried that and just got ignored basically. Also asked to see the boss but also got the same reaction. 

[BritTim]

1 minute ago, darrendsd said:

You obviously need to do this straight away, ask to see a immigration officer and tell them you want to appeal and see what happens from there

He is probably in Penang, and you will not find a Thai immigration office there. Any appeal, to have any practical meaning, has to be made at the airport immediately after the airport immigration official states his decision. You are not told of your right of appeal.

[BritTim]

2 minutes ago, paulikens said:

@BritTim  I think that's what they was applying, That i couldn't support myself.  But If i immediately try to get in at another entry point won't my passport flag up?

Yes, it will. They will be aware of the denied entry. Depending on the reason they cited under Section 12, take evidence that what they stated was false, and enter somewhere that is strict in following the law. I already suggested the safest route (fly Air Asia to Vientiane and enter via the Friendship Bridge to Nong Khai). You can then fly back to Phuket from Udon Thani airport (the domestic flight does not involve immigration).

[Crossy]

3 minutes ago, BritTim said:

Yes, it will. They will be aware of the denied entry. Depending on the reason they cited under Section 12, take evidence that what they stated was false, and enter somewhere that is strict in following the law. I already suggested the safest route (fly Air Asia to Vientiane and enter via the Friendship Bridge to Nong Khai). You can then fly back to Phuket from Udon Thani airport (the domestic flight does not involve immigration).

 

Could he try the land entry from Malaysia?

[Dancealot]

5 minutes ago, BritTim said:

He is probably in Penang, and you will not find a Thai immigration office there. Any appeal, to have any practical meaning, has to be made at the airport immediately after the airport immigration official states his decision. You are not told of your right of appeal.

No, he's waiting now to be flown back. see last page #1

[DrJack54]

29 minutes ago, paulikens said:

I am actually waiting now to be flown back to Penang

Have you considered offering to "pay a fine" and receive a "warning" 

[BritTim]

1 minute ago, Crossy said:

Could he try the land entry from Malaysia?

He could. If so, avoid the road crossing at Pedang Besar. Expect an uncomfortable ride from the officials entering at Sadao, but likely to be ultimately successful. In his situation, I would be extremely risk averse at this stage. A second denied entry stamp looks really bad.

[paulikens]

Just now, DrJack54 said:

Have you considered offering to "pay a fine" and receive a "warning" 

If you mean a fine "under the table type"  I don't think that's possible at airports

 

[zzzzz]

that sucks:

when you arrive in Penang, go to the train station an book a trip to Hat yai and enter there>
worth checking out
be nice if oyu could post a pic of what they stamped in ur passport when they denied you>
this Might cause troubles down the line
FYI:
make sure u have the 20,000 baht on hand an a hotel booked in Hat Ya

[DrJack54]

1 minute ago, paulikens said:

If you mean a fine "under the table type"  I don't think that's possible at airports

 

Friend of mine (not imaginary) managed one.

Cost him 15k.

He didn't offer. Someone suggested. 

[paulikens]

Just now, BritTim said:

He could. If so, avoid the road crossing at Pedang Besar. Expect an uncomfortable ride from the officials entering at Sadao, but likely to be ultimately successful. In his situation, I would be extremely risk averse at this stage. A second denied entry stamp looks really bad.

Yes, That's what I'm worried about.  Maybe it would be better to fly somewhere stay there for a bit and then try again?

[grain]

41 minutes ago, paulikens said:

Ok the details are....  I got a tourist visa in Penang but when i got to phuket airport i was still denied entry.  they claimed that because i had already had 5 months here. that i wasn't any tourist anymore.  so couldn't come in as a tourist.   And was living here according to them even though they had no evidence of that.    So, As it's a "minor offence"  (in other words the immigration gave me a trumped up charge.)   There was no overstay involved,  Would I be able to come back fairly quick?  maybe 3 months?

Unreal, you arrive at a tourist mecca with a tourist visa, you want to come in and spend your money and they refuse you entry. Imagine running a business along those lines. You walk into a pub and the doorman stops you and asks what you're doing. You reply you want to come in and have dinner and have a few beers. The doorman says you're coming too often, you were in there having dinner and boozing your head off last week, and he knows you were in there eating and drinking a couple of weeks before that.

[bignok]

Buy an Elite Visa. Funny if they still rejected you.

[paulikens]

Just now, hydraides said:

To be honest its harsh because Penang should have refused the visa in the first place

 

No reason to refuse entry, Surely there has to be more to this story?

 

Have you got previous long overstays in your passport?

 

Have you lived in Thailand before these 5 months for a long extended period?

 

 

 

 

@hydraides   i only have one overstay of 3 days but I do stay in Thailand a hell of a lot.  It's not the denial of entry that I'm really enquiring about as i know at the end of the day Thai immigration pretty much are a law onto themselves but was just more wondering how long should i give it before i try getting in again?   would 1 month be enough? 2, 3?  or longer?

[BritTim]

1 minute ago, paulikens said:

If you mean a fine "under the table type"  I don't think that's possible at airports

It is often possible, but a high risk strategy. I do not recommend it unless you are experienced in sizing up officials.

 

For the future, have the phone number of an immigration lawyer in Phuket. If denied entry state that you wish to contact your lawyer to issue an appeal pursuant to Section 22 of the Immigration Act using form TM11. Just saying that might be sufficient for them to reverse their decision. If necessary, call the lawyer and explain the situation.

[BritTim]

9 minutes ago, paulikens said:

Yes, That's what I'm worried about.  Maybe it would be better to fly somewhere stay there for a bit and then try again?

Up to you. In any case, choose a safe entry point the next time.

[BritTim]

5 minutes ago, paulikens said:

@hydraides   i only have one overstay of 3 days but I do stay in Thailand a hell of a lot.  It's not the denial of entry that I'm really enquiring about as i know at the end of the day Thai immigration pretty much are a law onto themselves but was just more wondering how long should i give it before i try getting in again?   would 1 month be enough? 2, 3?  or longer?

That depends entirely on where you enter. If you are thinking of entering via Phuket airport again, in my view that is stupid. They have already demonstrated contempt for the laws they are supposed to follow. If entering via safe land crossings, you can enter now. If thinking of flying to Chiang Mai, allow a few days.

[paulikens]

Just now, BritTim said:

Up to you. In any case, choose a safe entry point the next time.

TBH I didn't really think of a safe entry point at the time cuz i had already got the tourist visa. But thanks for the advise and info. much appreciated.

[hydraides]

8 minutes ago, paulikens said:

@hydraides   i only have one overstay of 3 days but I do stay in Thailand a hell of a lot.  It's not the denial of entry that I'm really enquiring about as i know at the end of the day Thai immigration pretty much are a law onto themselves but was just more wondering how long should i give it before i try getting in again?   would 1 month be enough? 2, 3?  or longer?

Okay so you've stayed here longer than 5 months in the last few years, maybe you've been here for most of those years

 

Thats why you were refused entry

 

Get an Ed-Visa for an Elite visa

[bignok]

10 minutes ago, paulikens said:

@hydraides   i only have one overstay of 3 days but I do stay in Thailand a hell of a lot.  It's not the denial of entry that I'm really enquiring about as i know at the end of the day Thai immigration pretty much are a law onto themselves but was just more wondering how long should i give it before i try getting in again?   would 1 month be enough? 2, 3?  or longer?

So you are flouting the rules. 

[bignok]

I would suggest staying away for 1 month at least.

[BritTim]

2 minutes ago, bignok said:

So you are flouting the rules. 

Which rules are you thinking of? Are you suspecting him of bribing the consular officials in Penang to give him a tourist visa he was not entitled to? Do you believe there is a law restricting how long you can be a tourist in Thailand (hint: there is no such regulation)?

[hydraides]

7 minutes ago, BritTim said:

Which rules are you thinking of? Are you suspecting him of bribing the consular officials in Penang to give him a tourist visa he was not entitled to? Do you believe there is a law restricting how long you can be a tourist in Thailand (hint: there is no such regulation)?

OP has stated he has stayed in Thailand long term (Longer than 5 months that he stated during the last few years) I'm guessing before his 5 month stay he had a few weeks break and before that had stayed in thailand for a few years all through COVID

[Caldera]

33 minutes ago, paulikens said:

Yes, That's what I'm worried about.  Maybe it would be better to fly somewhere stay there for a bit and then try again?

If possible, post a picture of your denial of entry stamp, to help determine which specific reason they denied you entry for.

 

They typically claim a lack of funds. In that case, when making your next attempt to enter elsewhere, make sure to take along the requisite amount of cash (the equivalent of 20,000 baht) to be able to produce it if challenged or asked about the previous denial of entry.

[BritTim]

3 minutes ago, hydraides said:

OP has stated he has stayed in Thailand long term (Longer than 5 months that he stated during the last few years) I'm guessing before his 5 month stay he had a few weeks break and before that had stayed in thailand for a few years all through COVID

All this might well be true, and would still be completely legal.

 

Certain immigration officials might think that this is against the spirit of what visa exemptions and tourist visas were designed for, but they are supposed to act according to the law, not their personal feelings about what the law ought to be. With visa exemptions, they actually have discretion (as do consular officials considering visa application) to deny entry. They are not supposed to refuse to honour legally issued visas without a valid reason.

[paulikens]

Just now, BritTim said:

All this might well be true, and would still be completely legal.

 

Certain immigration officials might think that this is against the spirit of what visa exemptions and tourist visas were designed for, but they are supposed to act according to the law, not their personal feelings about what the law ought to be. With visa exemptions, they actually have discretion (as do consular officials considering visa application) to deny entry. They are not supposed to refuse to honour legally issued visas without a valid reason.

 

Just now, hydraides said:

OP has stated he has stayed in Thailand long term (Longer than 5 months that he stated during the last few years) I'm guessing before his 5 month stay he had a few weeks break and before that had stayed in thailand for a few years all through COVID

I have stayed within the law always. Also they said 5 months is long enough as a tourist and for a holiday but who are they to determine how long MY holidays are. I  questioned why have i been allowed the tourist visa then by the Thai embassy in Penang? and they just said "we screen it again at the airport".    Which to me sounds like a nonsensical statement.  

[bignok]

34 minutes ago, BritTim said:

Which rules are you thinking of? Are you suspecting him of bribing the consular officials in Penang to give him a tourist visa he was not entitled to? Do you believe there is a law restricting how long you can be a tourist in Thailand (hint: there is no such regulation)?

3 day overstay

Excessive border hopping

Not in the spirit

[bignok]

12 minutes ago, paulikens said:

 

I have stayed within the law always. Also they said 5 months is long enough as a tourist and for a holiday but who are they to determine how long MY holidays are. I  questioned why have i been allowed the tourist visa then by the Thai embassy in Penang? and they just said "we screen it again at the airport".    Which to me sounds like a nonsensical statement.  

3 day overstay isnt within rules

 

Officials have discretion

[BritTim]

8 minutes ago, bignok said:

3 day overstay

Excessive border hopping

Not in the spirit

Section 12 of the Immigration Act which lists the sole reasons why you can be denied entry, does not mention "acting against the spirit of being a tourist" as one of the valid reasons for denying entry. In most countries, officials can deny you entry for any reason at their discretion. The Thai Immigration Act specifically disallows that.