Is a Rayong condominium a good investment.

[sirineou]

As the title implies

We have some money sitting making a little less  than 5% and we were thinking of perhaps buying a condominium. Anyone who has any experience, is that a good investment. what is the market like there? how are resales ? I know very little about the area and would appreciate and advice.  

[FruitPudding]

No.

[scubascuba3]

I would look at Sattahip, with all the flyovers almost compete you can get from Pattaya to Sattahip on Sukhumvit in 20 minutes

[FruitPudding]

The area doesn't really matter.

 

You'll likely make nothing on it. There's no liquidity. You'd be lucky to get your money back.

 

The first coconut who comes to view it when you want to sell is gonna offer you half of what you want for it; it's a buyers market.

[OneMoreFarang]

4 minutes ago, sirineou said:

I know very little about the area and would appreciate and advice.

Why would you invest substantial money into an area you know little about?

And if 5/5 people here would write: It's a great idea, do it. Would you do it?

 

As far as I know buying a condo in Thailand to rent it out and make money is mostly best case risky and often a bad idea. A few people, who know the market well, might make money. But it seems there are not too many of those experts around. 

[sungod]

4 minutes ago, FruitPudding said:

The area doesn't really matter.

 

You'll likely make nothing on it. There's no liquidity. You'd be lucky to get your money back.

 

The first coconut who comes to view it when you want to sell is gonna offer you half of what you want for it; it's a buyers market.

What about mid term as opposed to making a quick buck?

 

EEC........

[FruitPudding]

3 minutes ago, sungod said:

What about mid term as opposed to making a quick buck?

 

EEC........

Property here has gone up around 5% a year anyway, in good areas, for the last decade.

 

The OP is getting almost that, risk free in the bank, totally liquid.

 

If he rents it out, then okay.

[sungod]

21 minutes ago, FruitPudding said:

Property here has gone up around 5% a year anyway, in good areas, for the last decade.

 

The OP is getting almost that, risk free in the bank, totally liquid.

 

If he rents it out, then okay.

Your post answers it for me , with around 5% each year, I'd buy (informed) purely on speculation with the EEC transpiring.

[sirineou]

16 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

I would look at Sattahip, with all the flyovers almost compete you can get from Pattaya to Sattahip on Sukhumvit in 20 minutes

First let me start by tanking you all for taking the time to reply. I's appreciated!!1

 

I am not familiar with that area, Appreciate the heads up, I will take a look

13 minutes ago, FruitPudding said:

The area doesn't really matter.

 

You'll likely make nothing on it. There's no liquidity. You'd be lucky to get your money back.

 

The first coconut who comes to view it when you want to sell is gonna offer you half of what you want for it; it's a buyers market.

I realise that there is the liquidity issue. This a long term investment . This is my first step towards researching the issue, At this time I an trying to learn what would the right questions be to be asking myself and others . If I do decide to buy, how lowere from the asking price do you think I should be offering. 

9 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Why would you invest substantial money into an area you know little about?

And if 5/5 people here would write: It's a great idea, do it. Would you do it?

 

As far as I know buying a condo in Thailand to rent it out and make money is mostly best case risky and often a bad idea. A few people, who know the market well, might make money. But it seems there are not too many of those experts around. 

I am not! I am here as a first step towards learning more about the area. Issue, and perhaps other  areas I should be thinking about.

At this point I don't even know , if I am asking the right questions. 

Like what are the average maintenance (HOA) fees and what do they cover, 

7 minutes ago, sungod said:

What about mid term as opposed to making a quick buck?

 

EEC........

I was thinking about Airbnb. have not rely looked into it yet. But yes Midterm rentals might be an option .  

2 minutes ago, FruitPudding said:

Property here has gone up around 5% a year anyway, in good areas, for the last decade.

 

The OP is getting almost that, risk free in the bank, totally liquid.

 

If he rents it out, then okay.

That was my thinking also , If I could subsidize the property appreciation return with mid term rentals or an Airbnb type of setup  then I can have a place to stay at for a couple of months and get a decent return down the line on my investment. Who knows if we like it there, and I could convince the wife to move , we perhaps could sell the house in Khon Kaen. Trust me I would not mind getting out of this area, as nice as it is. 

[ChipButty]

My experience of owning condo's if you think it will be a good investment forget it, come this October we will have had them for 6 years and I will be lucky to get my money back, the only saving grace they have been superb rental units, since covid we have been 95% occupancy right now it is slowing down I can tell by the amount of views we get, 

I know other owners have been trying to sell for 2 to 3 years, 

[sirineou]

32 minutes ago, sungod said:

What about mid term as opposed to making a quick buck?

 

EEC........

I am sorry as it pretrains to real estate the only meaning for EEC I know is Energy Efficiency  Certificate. Could you please expand on that term.

[sirineou]

2 minutes ago, ChipButty said:

My experience of owning condo's if you think it will be a good investment forget it, come this October we will have had them for 6 years and I will be lucky to get my money back, the only saving grace they have been superb rental units, since covid we have been 95% occupancy right now it is slowing down I can tell by the amount of views we get, 

I know other owners have been trying to sell for 2 to 3 years, 

Thank you for that , Wife is waiting for us to go Out, but I would want to ask you a bit  more when I have more time about your rental experiences

Thank you for your reply

[ChipButty]

5 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Thank you for that , Wife is waiting for us to go Out, but I would want to ask you a bit  more when I have more time about your rental experiences

Thank you for your reply

No problem

[save the frogs]

I don't know much about condo investing. But I did a bit of research.

One real estate guy claims some areas of Bangkok, Chiang Mai, and Hua Hin are the best places to invest in a condo. 

But he could be a huckster and maybe OneMoreFarang's advice is spot on. 

Edited August 6, 2023 by save the frogs

[bignok]

3 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

I don't know much about condo investing. But I did a bit of research.

One real estate guy claims some areas of Bangkok, Chiang Mai, and Hua Hin are the best places to invest in a condo. 

But he could be a huckster and maybe OneMoreFarang's advice is spot on. 

I agree with that guy.

[sungod]

3 hours ago, sirineou said:

I am sorry as it pretrains to real estate the only meaning for EEC I know is Energy Efficiency  Certificate. Could you please expand on that term.

Eastern Economic Corridor, google it.

[JimTripper]

Forget it. Buy a mutual fund instead.

Edited August 6, 2023 by JimTripper

[sirineou]

10 hours ago, JimTripper said:

Forget it. Buy a mutual fund instead.

Your advice is good but, I Can't live in a mutual fund LOL. and a bit dangerous when you are retired and don't have the time and energy  to make back. Right now I have it parked in US treasuries at 4,7% in three months it matures and I have the option to roll it over at whatever the yield is at the time (right now is 5.5%) or do something different with it .

But I have ulterior motives.

All my life I never lived further than a couple of miles from the sea. The sea in in my DNA.  I am kind of hoping that if we live there for a couple of months out of the year  the wife would like it well enough to move there and sell the house in Khon Kaen. If not, then we could sell it and get our money back or more likely rent it. I don't mind the illiquidity , it removes the temptation to blow the money on crap LOL. 

So at this point I am exploring the possibilities, and if my thinking is right. 

And who best to ask than people who have been there and done that. But when I know the right questions to ask I will also do my own, independent  research.  

Anyway , I appreciate the feedback from all of you ,

[ChipButty]

15 hours ago, sirineou said:

Thank you for that , Wife is waiting for us to go Out, but I would want to ask you a bit  more when I have more time about your rental experiences

Thank you for your reply

If you are buying a condo with a view to renting it out I suggest you take a look on Airbnb in that area you can search as a guest and you will get some idea of daily rates but also check their calendars to see if they have any bookings, don't forget if you decide to buy check with the juristic person the foreign freehold quota, and can you rent it out many condo's around Bangkok don't allow STR ie, Airbnb, 

Either way STR or LTR has it's pitfalls, a friend of ours has a identical apartment to ours and she decided to rent long term and the guest smuggled a cat in now that guest has gone she cant rent it our because of the smell, no amount of cleaning will get rid of it, she may have to take up the laminated floor, there's a thing to think about if you have pets will they be allowed on the project? in ours they are not allowed and they are strict about it, which suits me, 

[sirineou]

24 minutes ago, ChipButty said:

If you are buying a condo with a view to renting it out I suggest you take a look on Airbnb in that area you can search as a guest and you will get some idea of daily rates but also check their calendars to see if they have any bookings, don't forget if you decide to buy check with the juristic person the foreign freehold quota, and can you rent it out many condo's around Bangkok don't allow STR ie, Airbnb, 

Either way STR or LTR has it's pitfalls, a friend of ours has a identical apartment to ours and she decided to rent long term and the guest smuggled a cat in now that guest has gone she cant rent it our because of the smell, no amount of cleaning will get rid of it, she may have to take up the laminated floor, there's a thing to think about if you have pets will they be allowed on the project? in ours they are not allowed and they are strict about it, which suits me, 

Thanks for that info, Appreciated!!

I got up  this morning and while the wife is still sleeping , I am watching the rain (yes its raining again), drinking my coffee, and checking my messages. 

You just saved me a dime LOL I was just getting ready to reply to your original post and ask you some of the questions you already just answered so 

I as I mentioned in other replied , my plan is to first first use it for a couple of months per year  and rent it for portion of the rest to get some income while it sits empty, and hopefully by then the wife would become comfortable with that area, and like it enough to want to move there full time. For that purpose I think Airbnb would probably be the best option for managing such situation, But I would need to find some way to have the place cleaned and restock after rentals. I certainly have to do some studying up on Airbnb issues . 

I have looked at some of the listings and no one seems to mention HOA fees. and what they cover. Do you have any idea what an average HOA cost per month is, and what they usually cover. 

Also in the US they have HOA meeting minutes that you can review and get a picture of what the building issues are. Do they have such thing here? 

Again, Thanks for all your help. 

 

Edited August 7, 2023 by sirineou

[brianthainess]

17 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

I would look at Sattahip, with all the flyovers almost compete you can get from Pattaya to Sattahip on Sukhumvit in 20 minutes

Ban Chang also. A lot of workers around from the trading estate and off shore. small houses going at around 3m. 

[DrJack54]

Don't do it.

Having stated that I have given Thai partner (10yr+) 3 condos and a townhouse (in her name) 

That sounds like big note myself it's not.

The reason is that buying real estate in Thailand can be for various reasons.

My example is to provide income for her when I depart. 

 

Buying for investment is (mostly) crazy. 

We rent in Bangkok same place 10 years, wouldn't dream of living in one of the purchased properties.

 

Those properties will probably be worth the same in few years and difficult to sell.

 

Edited August 7, 2023 by DrJack54

[JonnyF]

I would rent there for a few months to see if you like the area.

 

I have been going to Rayong for 15 years (and actually considered buying a condo there as well) but my visits are only for 2-3 days at a time. Any longer than that is a bit boring, there really isn't that much to do there except go to the beach which soon gets old after a few days.

 

As for the investment side, unless you plan to live in it then I would say it is a poor investment. You won't get much in rent and by the time you've paid the juristic fees, someone to manage/clean it then you won't be getting much every month and it will be a load of hassle. It's unlikely to increase much in value as Thais prefer to buy new and many of the buildings are not well managed/maintained. 

 

I decided not to buy and now just stay in hotels when I visit and have the money invested elsewhere instead. I'm not part of the "don't buy in Thailand" brigade as I own a condo in Bangkok it's just I think you need to live in it for it to be a worthwhile investment (I've recouped about 60% of the purchase price in saved rent so far but the unit hasn't increased in value).  

[ChipButty]

11 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

I would rent there for a few months to see if you like the area.

 

I have been going to Rayong for 15 years (and actually considered buying a condo there as well) but my visits are only for 2-3 days at a time. Any longer than that is a bit boring, there really isn't that much to do there except go to the beach which soon gets old after a few days.

 

As for the investment side, unless you plan to live in it then I would say it is a poor investment. You won't get much in rent and by the time you've paid the juristic fees, someone to manage/clean it then you won't be getting much every month and it will be a load of hassle. It's unlikely to increase much in value as Thais prefer to buy new and many of the buildings are not well managed/maintained. 

 

I decided not to buy and now just stay in hotels when I visit and have the money invested elsewhere instead. I'm not part of the "don't buy in Thailand" brigade as I own a condo in Bangkok it's just I think you need to live in it for it to be a worthwhile investment (I've recouped about 60% of the purchase price in saved rent so far but the unit hasn't increased in value).  

same for us the price has remained the same coming up to 6 years

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

If you plan to live in the unit and enjoy the location, facilities, views and conveniences, then it may be a good investment. If you are looking for capital appreciation, then it is probably not a good idea.

 

There are exceptions, such as units purchased in either financial distress or in poor physical condition and then fixed up, but those tend to be the province of people with specialist knowledge.

 

It isn't always easy to keep a condo unit occupied by a tenant that pays rent on time (or at all) and does not abuse the unit and contents. Then there are maintenance costs, common area fees, insurance, taxes all eating into the rental income. It is also difficult to increase rents since tenants have so many options here, so inflation drives up your costs while your rental income stagnates.

 

There are better investment opportunities available that carry fewer risks and don't require as much effort.

 

Good luck.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JeffersLos]

17 hours ago, FruitPudding said:

it's a buyers market.

That's good, becuase he's a buyer. ????

[sirineou]

6 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Don't do it.

Having stated that I have given Thai partner (10yr+) 3 condos and a townhouse (in her name) 

That sounds like big note myself it's not.

The reason is that buying real estate in Thailand can be for various reasons.

My example is to provide income for her when I depart. 

 

Buying for investment is (mostly) crazy. 

We rent in Bangkok same place 10 years, wouldn't dream of living in one of the purchased properties.

 

Those properties will probably be worth the same in few years and difficult to sell.

 

Different personalities , 

I realise the advantages of renting vs buying , For my personality right or wrong ownership is important. Perhaps part of my control freak tendencies. 

Have been married to my wife for 13 years, together for about 16. We have aur moments but I don't think either one of us would even consider living without the other. She is the best thing that has happened to me, aside from my daughter from a previous marriage. If there is one thing that worries me is what will happen to her when I am gone, me being older than her and chances being that I will checking out before her. 

Like buying as opposed to renting , being married is also to be, perhaps part of the same pathology I described above 

We also own 4 properties one a 4 unit inexpensive rental for working people the Roi on that  property is about 14% after considering expenses. 

If she ends up with all of them , not a problem she deserves every single one of them for putting up with me ????

As to what they would be worth 10 years down the line, hard to say, which is part of the reason why I started this thread, the consensus so far seems to be 5% per year but no guarantees. 

My Dad you to always say to me "you don't make your money when you sell, you make your money when you buy"  When it comes to trade IMO wisest word have never been spoken,

But I appreciate and consider all input. 

[ChipButty]

32 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Thanks for that info, Appreciated!!

I got up  this morning and while the wife is still sleeping , I am watching the rain (yes its raining again), drinking my coffee, and checking my messages. 

You just saved me a dime LOL I was just getting ready to reply to your original post and ask you some of the questions you already just answered so 

I as I mentioned in other replied , my plan is to first first use it for a couple of months per year  and rent it for portion of the rest to get some income while it sits empty, and hopefully by then the wife would become comfortable with that area, and like it enough to want to move there full time. For that purpose I think Airbnb would probably be the best option for managing such situation, But I would need to find some way to have the place cleaned and restock after rentals. I certainly have to do some studying up on Airbnb issues . 

I have looked at some of the listings and no one seems to mention HOA fees. and what they cover. Do you have any idea what an average HOA cost per month is, and what they usually cover. 

Also in the US they have HOA meeting minutes that you can review and get a picture of what the building issues are. Do they have such thing here? 

Again, Thanks for all your help. 

 

The HOA is an American thing, if you are thinking about management fee's well they vary a lot, ours are about 3500 baht per month which I don't think is bad considering what we get and it is a high end project, as somebody has mentioned go and stay there for a couple of months, a lot will depend on the size of the unit you decide to buy, ours are 60sqm but I'm not sure I could live there full time although lots of people do, 

As for running a Airbnb remotely you wont make enough money to cover the cost of hiring a co-host/cleaner we are fortunate we only live 5 minutes away, let me tell you need a full team and electrician/plumber/A/C guy and Airbnb guest will expect it to be fixed now!

In the past we have had other host ask to take care of their property, they have read our Airbnb profile and seen all the excellent reviews I have declined them all.

Some projects do have a management team they will rent it out for you obviously at a cost, I know they have were we are, they are not shy 500 baht to change a light bulb,  

[sirineou]

24 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

I would rent there for a few months to see if you like the area.

 

I have been going to Rayong for 15 years (and actually considered buying a condo there as well) but my visits are only for 2-3 days at a time. Any longer than that is a bit boring, there really isn't that much to do there except go to the beach which soon gets old after a few days.

 

As for the investment side, unless you plan to live in it then I would say it is a poor investment. You won't get much in rent and by the time you've paid the juristic fees, someone to manage/clean it then you won't be getting much every month and it will be a load of hassle. It's unlikely to increase much in value as Thais prefer to buy new and many of the buildings are not well managed/maintained. 

 

I decided not to buy and now just stay in hotels when I visit and have the money invested elsewhere instead. I'm not part of the "don't buy in Thailand" brigade as I own a condo in Bangkok it's just I think you need to live in it for it to be a worthwhile investment (I've recouped about 60% of the purchase price in saved rent so far but the unit hasn't increased in value).  

All good advice. To consider and look into.

As far as boring, You don't know boring until you live in Issan. LOL , I even bought a play farm , to play in dirt, It was fun in the beginning until I discovered it was hard work and too darn hot to do it in. 

Good news is that I bought it for 700K and  a year later I have already been offered 1 mil. for it. But I have done a lot of work in it, so a lot of it is sweat equity.

 

 

But I understand the pitfalls of condominium buying and after thinking about and researching the option , it might turn out that it is not a good idea, 

How much eggplant can a man eat LOL But eggplant curry is Aloy mak mak 

[JimTripper]

2 hours ago, sirineou said:

Your advice is good but, I Can't live in a mutual fund LOL. and a bit dangerous when you are retired and don't have the time and energy  to make back. Right now I have it parked in US treasuries at 4,7% in three months it matures and I have the option to roll it over at whatever the yield is at the time (right now is 5.5%) or do something different with it .

But I have ulterior motives.

All my life I never lived further than a couple of miles from the sea. The sea in in my DNA.  I am kind of hoping that if we live there for a couple of months out of the year  the wife would like it well enough to move there and sell the house in Khon Kaen. If not, then we could sell it and get our money back or more likely rent it. I don't mind the illiquidity , it removes the temptation to blow the money on crap LOL. 

So at this point I am exploring the possibilities, and if my thinking is right. 

And who best to ask than people who have been there and done that. But when I know the right questions to ask I will also do my own, independent  research.  

Anyway , I appreciate the feedback from all of you ,

Most people decide if they want to buy and live there before they buy a property, not after. You’re committed once you buy. 
 

If you change your mind for some reason and try to wiggle out by becoming a landlord or selling it may not work out. You lose money because you did not buy for that reason and you may not want to be a landlord or property manager, or just dump it at a low price to get rid of the problem.