Can this battery-swapping electric scooter help clean up cities?

[Social Media]

 

Across Asia, by far the most popular form of personal transport is the motor scooter.

Thailand has 20 million of them, Vietnam 45 million, and Indonesia more than 80 million.

They are cheap and convenient - but polluting. To cut emissions, cities need to switch to a clean, electric alternative. But how?

One Taiwanese company, which has already built the world’s largest battery-swapping network, says it has the answer.

We took the bike for a ride in Taipei to find out how the system works.

 

WATCH VIDEO REPORT

 

[stoner]

need a few more solar panels me thinks. 

[Kwasaki]

A million batteries and 14 million scooters. ????

[Reginald Prewster]

Since 2020 I am working in Taiwan and the first thing to overcome the dependence on Taxis was to buy myself a Gogoro Viva XL.

Since 15 years of age I drive Motorbikes with combustible engines and this is the first electric driven scooter.

 

When you drive it sounds like the end of every star treck movie when Kirk & Co worps off into the space for new adventures, but I must admit the torque is next level.

End speed is 100 Km/h and the hanling is like every other scooter.

 

1250 NTD = 1350 Baht "all you can eat" contract is nice, as I drive in my off work weekends up to 250 Kilometers so batteries are unlimited for me.

 

Gogoro says you can easy do 100 [plus] kilometers with one set, for me its more likely the average of 46 Kilometers. (But as said I am driving 2 wheelers since 1978, so I might love my pole position at traffic lights too much, but its also because being in front of the crowd is much safer, especially in Taiwan)

 

On a small island like Taiwan it is possible to cover every area with battery exchange stations and it is for sure possible in big cities in Thailand (or worldwide)

 

BUT with now 1.1 million Batteries on more than 12.000 Exchange stations all over Tawian and Gogoro has 524000 riders (25 Million Citizens in Taiwan!!!) it is at its limits and the reason is.

If I exchange a set in the early morning the clock says the set is good for 79 Kilometers but if I exchange the batteries during the day time they are good for around 50-55 Kilometers.

 

1.1 million batteries is a lot of special waste and the lithium mining is another story for itself. 

Many people change their batteries when they are a 20 Kilometer radius which is also not beneficial for the life time of a battery..

 

Wost is that Kimco brings now also an electric scooter with exchangeable Battery packs but they are not compartible which is in my eyes nonsense.

If the Indistry thinks green why the do not find an agreement? 

Money first I guess..

 

For me personally its and eye washing because for above reasons it makes no difference to leave a line of smoke or leave some serious waste from spent betteries... 

 

But the torque...

I enjoy the wind in the face and the hair drier sound under my a$$ because I am in front... 

I know there is a smart button for best battery use, but also in the shop is a software update available that puts the max on the belt drive... 

(I'll post pictures here when the scooter goes up in flames) 

 

Since 2002 I am working in the green energy bizz and have seen enough BS... 

The Viva is classed as 125cc bike by the way... 

[KhunLA]

It's a start, a work in progress, but as stated above, they really need to use a universal battery, as would make things much simpler.

 

Need to break the grid's dependence on fossil fuel generate electrics.   Solar on every rooftop would be a practical start.  Mandated for all new construction, where applicable.

[Moonlover]

39 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

A million batteries and 14 million scooters. ????

There are not 14 million electric scooters. He said 14 million scooters (overall) If the demand for EVs were to increase then, obviously the number of available batteries would increase pro rata.

 

I think it's a great idea. It would surely help with the air pollution problems in the likes of Bangkok.

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, Moonlover said:

There are not 14 million electric scooters. He said 14 million scooters (overall) If the demand for EVs were to increase then, obviously the number of available batteries would increase pro rata.

 

I think it's a great idea. It would surely help with the air pollution problems in the likes of Bangkok.

Great idea maybe it will that goes without saying, going EV and hydrogen is the only seen way at the moment. 

[Reginald Prewster]

I made some photos today at the battery station. 

The change takes about 1 minute. Empty batteries in the slot, the display says hello Reginald, you have 24% left and made 42.6 Km.

Click and two full Batteries popping out... Easy peasy.

 

taking not too much space under the seat, but for a little girl it might be an act as each battery weights 9 Kg

 

all in all a handy scooter in the city which could be compared with a PCX... 

 

but still the sour apple is, that batteries last about 1000 charges and leave a lots of environmentally unfriendly waste. (in my opinion) 

[Skipalongcassidy]

Two takeaways... 1.  They have to be just as cheap  2. they have to be just as reliable

 

Two things the EV makers have failed at up to now... 

[Bandersnatch]

I have been waiting for the Government EV incentives to kick in and in April I purchased a made in Thailand Deco Hannah for ฿30,640 it was previously ฿50,000. We have solar so it gets charged for free when we have excess power in the middle of the day. 

 

It is fun to ride and my wife loves it compared to our previous Honda Click, that always seemed to be breaking down.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bandersnatch]

33 minutes ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

Two takeaways... 1.  They have to be just as cheap  2. they have to be just as reliable

 

Two things the EV makers have failed at up to now... 

You clearly don’t drive an EV or you would know that’s not true. I have driven an EV in Thailand for over 2 years now and never had any problems. 

 

You can buy a Neta V EV in Thailand for ฿549,000, but maybe you think that’s expensive.

[rhodie]

21 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

compared to our previous Honda Click, that always seemed to be breaking down.

Honda Click always breaking down??? Pffft.  You have got to be joking. Arguably the most reliable bike on the planet.

[Reginald Prewster]

1 hour ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

Two takeaways... 1.  They have to be just as cheap  2. they have to be just as reliable

 

Two things the EV makers have failed at up to now... 

Considering the price difference Thailand and Taiwan the Gogoro Viva XL is 82.500 NTD incl 15 month Insurance and Road Tax 12 month. 

That makes it equal to a Honda PCX in Thailand. 

The PCX has not anywhere near the good handling capabilities and torque than the Gogoro.

 

In the 4th year now I am every 2nd weekend in the mountains of Taiwan and ride about 200 - 250 Kilometers nonstop. If it overheats it will slow down to 45 Km/hr for a few kilometers (happened twice as Google brought me on the Expressway and I wanted to make a quick escape to avoid fines)

 

In total I have now 38.000 Kilometers on the Clock and the only thing I exchanged was the drive belt and 3 back tires which wear down faster because of the torque these electric motors put on the road if you pull the trottle.. 

 

I think @Skipalongcassidy your opinion on reliability of e-bikes is a bit outdated.

6 years ago I bought a mountain bike style e-bike and yes, that was a piece of sh*t.

15 kilometer Range, 65 Km/hr and couldn't pull a smoked Kipper from the plate...  

[Bandersnatch]

31 minutes ago, rhodie said:

Honda Click always breaking down??? Pffft.  You have got to be joking. Arguably the most reliable bike on the planet.

As ICE motorbikes go yes the Honda Click is very reliable, that’s the reason I bought it, but to say it’s the most reliable bike on the planet shows you are not up to date with developments.

 

Our new electric bike has a sealed hub motor, that requires no maintenance. There is no chain to lubricate, adjust or replace as drive happens at the rear wheel. There is no tiny 12v lead acid battery to start the motor and run flat if the bike is not used for a couple of weeks, like happens to our click. The battery on the electric bike is Lithium Ion with far more capacity.

 

 

[Skipalongcassidy]

2 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

You clearly don’t drive an EV or you would know that’s not true. I have driven an EV in Thailand for over 2 years now and never had any problems. 

 

You can buy a Neta V EV in Thailand for ฿549,000, but maybe you think that’s expensive.

Not expensive at all... but over priced for what value that you get... for me there is no value in a car ICE or EV that is uncomfortable... I am 6'4" and 230lbs

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, Bandersnatch said:

As ICE motorbikes go yes the Honda Click is very reliable, that’s the reason I bought it, but to say it’s the most reliable bike on the planet shows you are not up to date with developments.

 

Our new electric bike has a sealed hub motor, that requires no maintenance. There is no chain to lubricate, adjust or replace as drive happens at the rear wheel. There is no tiny 12v lead acid battery to start the motor and run flat if the bike is not used for a couple of weeks, like happens to our click. The battery on the electric bike is Lithium Ion with far more capacity.

And a pleasure to ride.  I rarely used our Honda Wave, and seemed like only time I used it, was to top up fuel & air in tires ????

 

Sold it, and bought our E-MB, and wife is like ... 'what are you, F'g goofy, you never drove the Wave'

 

And yet, I'm on the E-MB almost everyday, weather permitting.  Go figure.

[Skipalongcassidy]

1 hour ago, Bandersnatch said:

  There is no tiny 12v lead acid battery to start the motor and run flat if the bike is not used for a couple of weeks, like happens to our click. The battery on the electric bike is Lithium Ion with far more capacity.

You can always replace your lead acid battery with a lithium Ion battery... it's easy

[Bandersnatch]

14 minutes ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

but over priced for what value that you get

Again with the unsupported  statements 

 

Your last one was 

 

3 hours ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

They have to be just as cheap  2. they have to be just as reliable

 

Two things the EV makers have failed at up to now

How was your test drive in the Neta V? I would be interested in your informed opinion.

 

18 minutes ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

I am 6'4" and 230lbs

 How about a station wagon?

 

 

[Bandersnatch]

8 minutes ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

You can always replace your lead acid battery with a lithium Ion battery... it's easy

ok  - I'll give you that one, can you put the engine in the hub so I don't need a chain?

[KhunLA]

26 minutes ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

Not expensive at all... but over priced for what value that you get... for me there is no value in a car ICE or EV that is uncomfortable... I am 6'4" and 230lbs

You would easily fit in our MG ZS, as I have heaps of headroom.  Legs, not so sure, though I can stretch out completely, @ 175cm/5'9".

 

Same price as comparable ICEVs, and a great value, IMHO.  I thought there was plenty of headroom in the MG EP also, though it does sit a bit lower.

 

My back isn't as flexible as most, so if I'm comfy getting in/out, nobody else should have much of an issue.

[MangoKorat]

On 8/14/2023 at 2:10 AM, Kwasaki said:

A million batteries and 14 million scooters. ????

I think that's a million + a set in each scooter - otherwise I agree it won't work.

 

Also take account that each battery can be used several times each day.  I watched the programme on the BBC and in theory, it seems like a great idea. 

 

The Chinese are starting a similar system with cars where you drive onto a ramp in a service station and your batteries are changed.  Beats the hell out of charging stations all over the place - with cables having to be laid. A good use of former petrol stations.  The main problem I can see is getting car manufacturers to standardise batteries.

 

India next on their list - good, still a lot of smokey 2 strokes there.

[Kwasaki]

8 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

I think that's a million + a set in each scooter - otherwise I agree it won't work.

 

Also take account that each battery can be used several times each day.  I watched the programme on the BBC and in theory, it seems like a great idea. 

 

The Chinese are starting a similar system with cars where you drive onto a ramp in a service station and your batteries are changed.  Beats the hell out of charging stations all over the place - with cables having to be laid. A good use of former petrol stations.  The main problem I can see is getting car manufacturers to standardise batteries.

 

India next on their list - good, still a lot of smokey 2 strokes there.

Yeah I was only having a go at how much ore they will need to do to progress but a good thing.

Glad I've lived in the petrolhead time though to be selfishly honest. 

[transam]

9 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

I have been waiting for the Government EV incentives to kick in and in April I purchased a made in Thailand Deco Hannah for ฿30,640 it was previously ฿50,000. We have solar so it gets charged for free when we have excess power in the middle of the day. 

 

It is fun to ride and my wife loves it compared to our previous Honda Click, that always seemed to be breaking down.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I do not believe your Honda Click is always breaking down.............

[MangoKorat]

7 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Yeah I was only having a go at how much ore they will need to do to progress but a good thing.

Glad I've lived in the petrolhead time though to be selfishly honest. 

Me too. However, I've yet to drive an electric car and a mate who has one says the acceleration is amazing. Thinking about how fast an electric motor starts - I can see how that would be. In fact I'm pretty sure they must be restricted or you could go through a set of tyres dragging away from a traffic light ????.

[Muhendis]

7 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

ok  - I'll give you that one, can you put the engine in the hub so I don't need a chain?

The point being that your ICE has hundreds of metal bits rubbing against each other and relies on frequent explosions for power whereas an electric motor has but one moving part to achieve the same result.

With this in mind I am tempted to ask why the simpler electric machine is not less expensive than the equivalent ICE.

[Crossy]

7 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

ok  - I'll give you that one, can you put the engine in the hub so I don't need a chain?

 

Nearly

 

 

https://www.solex-motobecane.com/documentation/80_Solex_4600_V2-V3_Owner_s_Handbook.pdf

 

 

[Ralf001]

7 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

ok  - I'll give you that one, can you put the engine in the hub so I don't need a chain?

Your click did not have a chain either.

[Crossy]

I knew I'd seen one somewhere...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RevoPower

 

 

 

[MangoKorat]

11 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

Nearly

 

 

https://www.solex-motobecane.com/documentation/80_Solex_4600_V2-V3_Owner_s_Handbook.pdf

 

 

No, there actually was one - well 2 that I know of. The BSA Winged Wheel and The Cycle Master. I had a Winged Wheel - rarely worked.

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, transam said:

I do not believe your Honda Click is always breaking down.............

How about always needing maintenance; oil changes, tune ups, whether putting on kms on not.  Pop into the petrol station to pay to ride every km, after you bought it ????