Work Permit now possible with retirement extension

[bigt3116]

2 hours ago, Ralf001 said:

You can enter visa exempt I though and convert to non-b in country, or am I wrong ?

and that non-b would be your non-immigrant visa

[Ralf001]

4 minutes ago, bigt3116 said:

and that non-b would be your non-immigrant visa

That you did not enter on !!

[bigt3116]

10 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

That you did not enter on !!

It does not mention entering the country, only that you need non-immigrant status

[Neeranam]

12 hours ago, Maestro said:

 

Thank you. 

 

I have rephrased the prosecutor's opening address to the judge in this hypothetical court case in legal jargon as shown below. I am rather busy right now but plan to formulate and post the defence lawyer's response tomorrow.

 

Prosecutor to the judge:

 

Background information for the readers

 

Eagerly awaiting in the public gallery.  ????

[Neeranam]

8 hours ago, Maestro said:

But we can ponder why we have not, until now, read in this forum about confirmed and verified cases where a foreigner on a retirement extension, ie on a permission to stay granted for the reason of retirement, obtained a work permit. Do foreigners with this status not apply for work permits? Do prospective employers of foreigners with this status not consider helping with the application for a work permit unless the foreigner gives up his retirement extension status?

In my experience, the DoL and Immigration don't have/want  much contact with each other. Out of policy, rather than law, immigration advise foreigners to change their retirement to a non-B. I can't think of any real reason why someone would be opposed to this, apart from when they leave the job, they might have some issues as the non-B is linked to the work permit. 

 

7 hours ago, BritTim said:

One of the firm requirements (and this is by law) is that you must be on a non immigrant entry or permanent residence. You cannot just ignore one of the key requirements for being issued a work permit. The visa does not automatically give you the right to work, but it is still a prerequisite. I assume you would agree that having an employer is necessary for a work permit in spite of the fact that the employer does not issue you the work permit.

 Isn't an extension based on retirement a 'non immigrant visa'?

 

9 hours ago, BritTim said:

I do not think so. I have been coming to the same conclusions. It is interesting that when you apply for a Non O-A visa or tourist visa, it invariably stated EMPLOYMENT PROHIBITED at the bottom. A Non O visa does not. My suspicion is that it has been due to policy rather than law that work permits have been denied to retirees on Non O visas.

I agree, I can't find anything in the law that states otherwise.

[Ralf001]

3 hours ago, bigt3116 said:

It does not mention entering the country, only that you need non-immigrant status

Go read the post I qouted and replied to.

[Liquorice]

20 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Isn't an extension based on retirement a 'non immigrant visa'?

No, it's an extension of your period of stay, initially granted at entry and is a permit, not a visa.
You must have Non Immigrant status to apply for a 1-year extension of stay.
This is achieved by either applying for an initial Non Imm type visa, from a Thai Embassy/Consulate, with which to enter Thailand, or by changing your status at local Immigration from entry under the status of tourist, to Non Imm status.

[BritTim]

6 hours ago, Ralf001 said:

You can enter visa exempt I though and convert to non-b in country, or am I wrong ?

Yes, you can convert from a tourist entry or visa exempt entry to a Non Immigrant entry at Immigration in Thailand.

[Ralf001]

4 minutes ago, BritTim said:

Yes, you can convert from a tourist entry or visa exempt entry to a Non Immigrant entry at Immigration in Thailand.

its not an entry though.

the change is to non B (or O or whatever).

[Liquorice]

10 hours ago, BritTim said:

I do not think so. I have been coming to the same conclusions. It is interesting that when you apply for a Non O-A visa or tourist visa, it invariably stated EMPLOYMENT PROHIBITED at the bottom. A Non O visa does not. My suspicion is that it has been due to policy rather than law that work permits have been denied to retirees on Non O visas.

My initial Non Imm O visa, issued by the Liverpool Consulate, categorically states at the bottom, in capitals, 'EMPLOYMENT PROHIBITED'.

[Liquorice]

13 minutes ago, BritTim said:

Yes, you can convert from a tourist entry or visa exempt entry to a Non Immigrant entry at Immigration in Thailand.

You can't change the entry type, but you can change the status of the type of entry, to be more concise.

[BritTim]

37 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

 Isn't an extension based on retirement a 'non immigrant visa'?

Indeed, it is. And, the lack of any further qualification in the rules for a work permit leads me to believe that, in principle, any Non Immigrant visa that does not state EMPLOYMENT PROHIBITED on the visa stamp probably qualifies, including a Non O based on retirement.

 

Prior practice has the Labour Department denying work permits to those on retirement visas/extensions, and I think this is correct for those who enter with a Non O-A visa, but for those on a Non O (regardless of purpose) the denials have probably been the policy rather than the law. It is similar to the policy that now exists to deny a Non O visa to visit family and friends to those who wish to visit friends. That policy is now almost invariably followed, but it is legal for an embassy/consulate to issue it.

 

I find this interesting, and am open to be convinced that I am wrong.

[Lorry]

I had a look at several non-imm O visa stickers, all issued for retirement. 

 

2013 the sticker says "employment prohibited"

2018 the sticker doesn't say so

another one from 2018: the sticker doesn't say so

2022 e-visa: it doesn't say so

 

They are all from the same country,  the ones from 2013 and 2022 are from the same consulate,  the ones from 2018 are from another consulate. 

[Thailand]

On 8/20/2023 at 3:48 AM, Maestro said:

 

My guess is that the reference to "a Thaivisa member" is a reference to a person who is a member of this here forum which is currently known as "ASEANnow forum" and was formerly known as "ThaiVisa forum"

 

Old habits die hard. 

The links from my "devices" are to ThaiVisa.com which simply forwards to the imposter AseanNow.com.

 

Working with a "Retirement Extension of Stay?" just hope it does not become compulsory!????

[cleopatra2]

7 hours ago, BritTim said:

Indeed, it is. And, the lack of any further qualification in the rules for a work permit leads me to believe that, in principle, any Non Immigrant visa that does not state EMPLOYMENT PROHIBITED on the visa stamp probably qualifies, including a Non O based on retirement.

 

Prior practice has the Labour Department denying work permits to those on retirement visas/extensions, and I think this is correct for those who enter with a Non O-A visa, but for those on a Non O (regardless of purpose) the denials have probably been the policy rather than the law. It is similar to the policy that now exists to deny a Non O visa to visit family and friends to those who wish to visit friends. That policy is now almost invariably followed, but it is legal for an embassy/consulate to issue it.

 

I find this interesting, and am open to be convinced that I am wrong.

When an applicant applies for permission of stay on the basis of retirement, the applicant is indicating that they have withdrawn from active working life.

Thus the permission is granted with the belief the applicant is no longer working.

If the applicant so wishes to be gainfully employed the necessity to stay cannot be for the purposes of retirement.

 

The Thai language specified for purposes of retirement translates to " making a living has ended". ( ใช้ชีวิตบั้นปลาย)

[BritTim]

2 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

When an applicant applies for permission of stay on the basis of retirement, the applicant is indicating that they have withdrawn from active working life.

Thus the permission is granted with the belief the applicant is no longer working.

If the applicant so wishes to be gainfully employed the necessity to stay cannot be for the purposes of retirement.

 

The Thai language specified for purposes of retirement translates to " making a living has ended". ( ใช้ชีวิตบั้นปลาย)

That is logical. Three days ago, I believed 100% that it was impossible to get a work permit on a Non O visa (retirement) or a retirement extension. I am no longer convinced. You cannot just decide what is allowed based on terminology. The letter of the law is a bigger factor.

[DrJack54]

17 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

When an applicant applies for permission of stay on the basis of retirement, the applicant is indicating that they have withdrawn from active working life.

That's a nonsense.

As with things in Thailand they abbreviate various things.

The example here is non O based on retirement.

Being retired is NOT a requirement.

Perhaps Non O based on being over 50 would have been more accurate.

All semantics.

One thing is for sure ....you do not need to be retired.

 

Aside from that I do not agree with OP and idea that you can work in Thailand on an extension from an non O retirement.

 

[DrJack54]

17 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

When an applicant applies for permission of stay on the basis of retirement, the applicant is indicating that they have withdrawn from active working life.

That's a nonsense.

As with things in Thailand they abbreviate various things.

The example here is non O based on retirement.

Being retired is NOT a requirement.

Perhaps Non O based on being over 50 would have been more accurate.

All semantics.

One thing is for sure ....you do not need to be retired.

 

Aside from that I do not agree with OP and idea that you can work in Thailand on an extension from an non O retirement.

 

[realfunster]

On 8/19/2023 at 4:00 PM, Jelli said:

Yes, but not really. They are retired and decades away from latest and greatest knowledge in whatever field. Add to this they've been retired. The best example of this is in medicine. The younger doctors will know the latest procedures and tricks. Old school doctors just do it the old school way. I'm sure this is the same in every profession and vocation

 

Given that it takes five years of hard work to become a teacher of any value stepping into this at 65 is not going to work for students and the old git will be exhausted. Did I mention starting salary of 35k? A school has to be really, really desperate to hire a totally inexperienced teacher 60+. Finally, again unless totally desperate schools simply don't hire even great teachers 60+.

 

Jus sayin

Get your point but, for example, I currently work in Thailand and will be looking to retire/semi-retire mid-50s. Probable/possible I will take some sort of part-time role with my current company (presumably on a working visa/WP arrangement) but would certainly be interested in the option of being on a retirement visa that comes with some flexibility for work, be that independently or lecturing in Universities etc. 

 

In terms of teaching, my old man was a teacher trainer, and whilst it is certainly a distinct and specialised skillset many "corporate" bods in their 40s-50s-60s, will have had a huge exposure to and experience of both receiving and giving trainings to a reasonable quality. I'm fairly sure they would be overall be beneficial for the Thai education system.

[DrJack54]

9 minutes ago, realfunster said:

Get your point but, for example, I currently work in Thailand and will be looking to retire/semi-retire mid-50s. Probable/possible I will take some sort of part-time role with my current company (presumably on a working visa/WP arrangement) but would certainly be interested in the option of being on a retirement visa that comes with some flexibility for work, be that independently or lecturing in Universities etc.

There is no retirement visa..

You would be on extensions from a Non O based on retirement.

Working in Thailand in NOT permitted.

[cleopatra2]

59 minutes ago, BritTim said:

That is logical. Three days ago, I believed 100% that it was impossible to get a work permit on a Non O visa (retirement) or a retirement extension. I am no longer convinced. You cannot just decide what is allowed based on terminology. The letter of the law is a bigger factor.

The following is taken from the OSOS

" 

• Eligibility for issuance of a work permit to the holder (only for category B and category O (only a foreigner who married to a Thai national); "

https://osos.boi.go.th/EN/how-to/218/Getting-Visa--Work-Permit/

[cleopatra2]

43 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

That's a nonsense.

As with things in Thailand they abbreviate various things.

The example here is non O based on retirement.

Being retired is NOT a requirement.

Perhaps Non O based on being over 50 would have been more accurate.

All semantics.

One thing is for sure ....you do not need to be retired.

 

Aside from that I do not agree with OP and idea that you can work in Thailand on an extension from an non O retirement.

 

The Thai language makes it clear that the purpose is for person's who are retired , no longer actively working 

If the purposes was for retirement age it would use different language.

The age of 50 is just a qualifying criteria.

[DrJack54]

29 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

The Thai language makes it clear that the purpose is for person's who are retired , no longer actively working 

If the purposes was for retirement age it would use different language.

The age of 50 is just a qualifying criteria.

Nonsense.

Show me one example of where someone needs to prove that they are retired..

 

There are MANY folk living in Thailand on extensions based on retirement.

They do not work in Thailand however certainly not retired in home country.

 

My first 5-6 years I Thailand I stayed on extensions based on retirement.

At same time had an active company in Australia.

 

There are many various examples.

Some guys doing 6/6 home country and Thailand.

 

There are guys oil/gas living in Thailand on same extensions based on retirement. 

 

You state....

"The age of 50 is just a qualifying criteria."

 

It's the only requirement. (Apart from financials)

Over 50 can apply for non O retirement....

Regardless if retired or not. 

 

Seriously you are posting false information. 

Edited August 24, 2023 by DrJack54

[Gottfrid]

On 8/18/2023 at 11:47 PM, GammaGlobulin said:

Work Permit for Retirees is an IMPORTANT Step forward because:

Listen to yourself! Work permit for retirees??? The meaning of retired, is that one has stopped working, and is retired instead. 

[GammaGlobulin]

2 minutes ago, Gottfrid said:

Listen to yourself! Work permit for retirees??? The meaning of retired, is that one has stopped working, and is retired instead. 

That's just a euphemism.

 

 

[youreavinalaff]

On 8/18/2023 at 10:17 PM, Ralf001 said:

post up a pic (redacted) of the extension.

 

Most likely he was on retirement extension and it was converted work extension.

Not without going to immigration. There is no mention og going to immigration in the OP.

[Gottfrid]

3 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

That's just a euphemism.

 

 

No, it´s not. It´s reality. There is NON-O based on marriage that you can have a work permit on, There is NON-B that you can have a work permit on. There is NON-O based on retirement that you, (according to the rules) can not have a work permit on. 

If a visa is easier or not so easy to get or make, has no power regarding that.

[DrJack54]

4 minutes ago, Gottfrid said:

No, it´s not. It´s reality. There is NON-O based on marriage that you can have a work permit on, There is NON-B that you can have a work permit on. There is NON-O based on retirement that you, (according to the rules) can not have a work permit on.

You know I'm not a fan ....

However so agree with your post.

[GammaGlobulin]

8 minutes ago, Gottfrid said:

No, it´s not. It´s reality. There is NON-O based on marriage that you can have a work permit on, There is NON-B that you can have a work permit on. There is NON-O based on retirement that you, (according to the rules) can not have a work permit on. 

If a visa is easier or not so easy to get or make, has no power regarding that.

For me... Thinking is a lot of work. 

 

 

[Gottfrid]

1 minute ago, GammaGlobulin said:

For me... Thinking is a lot of work. 

 

 

No problem, I realized that long time ago.