Cordless drills - looking to replace my 24volt machine - help confused.com over alleged battery voltages please.

[cliveshep]

My 600 baht 5 year old 24 volt cordless drill/driver started pouring out smoke so I guess it's probably knackered. Can't complain, it has worked tirelessly doing sheera walls,and after 7 ceilings and sheera roofing on our new extension, plus sundry other jobs. Adapters allow it to be used with 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2 sockets so it has earned it's keep many times over.

 

The batteries are remarkably good and once charged will put up dry-wall all day almost and after 6 years do not seem to have deteriorated so while I will probably junk the machine choosing one that uses the same batteries makes sense. Found one called Muscle Cow 24volt on Lazada at 780 baht almost identical and one of the few 24 volt machines there.

 

That's the background - here comes the question. Most offerings on Lazada quote what seem to be preposterous voltages, 98v (Makita), 149v (Bosch) and 259v (De Walt), Some cheaper machines offer 9980 Vf - what the hell does it all mean. Google says vf is "forward voltage", one customer is still awaiting an answer to his question "is this machine 12 or 24 volt?" so clearly the seller hasn't a clue either. 

 

I can't believe that a lithium ion battery gives 259 volts, or 149 or even 98. Can someone please shed some light on the numbers and what they might mean in terms of more prosaic 6, 12 or 24 volts etc?

 

Help!!!!!!

[Ralf001]

I have 18v Makita brushless gear (Drill/driver/impact).

They have copped a lot of punishment but keep on trucking without complaint.

Not cheap though, all 3 tools with 6 batteries and chargers cost me in excess of Bt50,000.

I would never cheapNnasty cordless tool.... they will let you down.

[steven100]

Cliveshep,   the person who will help answer your questions is @Crossy,  he's the electrical guy here and will point you in the right direction.   Just wait for him to read your post ....  he'll reply soon I expect.

 

 

Edited August 20, 2023 by steven100

[cliveshep]

14 minutes ago, steven100 said:

Cliveshep,   the person who will help answer your questions is Crossy,  he's the electrical guy here and will point you in the right direction.   Just wait for him to read your post ....  he'll reply soon I expect.

Ah yes, he has been inestimable help on other matters before. thanks, I'll wait.

 

[chickenslegs]

21 minutes ago, steven100 said:

Cliveshep,   the person who will help answer your questions is Crossy,  he's the electrical guy here and will point you in the right direction.   Just wait for him to read your post ....  he'll reply soon I expect.

If you add his name like this ... @Crossy he'll get a notification.

 

[cliveshep]

19 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

I have 18v Makita brushless gear (Drill/driver/impact).

They have copped a lot of punishment but keep on trucking without complaint.

Not cheap though, all 3 tools with 6 batteries and chargers cost me in excess of Bt50,000.

I would never cheapNnasty cordless tool.... they will let you down.

50,000 baht - are you nuts? Look, if you got loads to chuck around I'll send you my bank details! I've bought good quality machines before, AEG, Bosch , Hitachi machines etc, I would not buy DeWalt - owned by the Woolworth's brand and from observation on site not a lot of good. TBH the expensive machines sell you their name but the quality and longevity does not warrant the extra expense.

 

When you hammer a machine in professional use and it lasts 6 years to me that is a damn good bit of kit because few high-end machines would do as well. I speak as a former construction professional working on tools in the UK so I know from experience what I'm talking about!

[cliveshep]

@Crossy - I am calling you-hoo-hoo-hoo!................You know the song I'll bet!

[Crossy]

I too wonder about the very high voltages quoted for some tools. Anything over 48V or so is going to need a physically large pack.

 

My 10.8V (later re-branded to 12V) DeWalt tools just keep going, the impact-driver is particularly good. If you don't have an impact driver, get one, far better than using a drill to put in screws.

 

I will say you tend to get what you pay for, the weak point is almost always the batteries (which are of course unobtainium when you need replacements), and whilst it is possible to re-cell they never really work as well.

 

If your batteries really are still good, then getting a tool that uses the same ones is sensible, but not all packs that look the same are actually interchangeable ????  

[BarraMarra]

If you are using a Cordless for home usage an 18v dill do all you need Makita, Bosch, Dewalt. Same as most go cheap last a year is your lucky, Smoking is a sighn of Brush wear try replacing the brushes cliveshep before you splash out for an expensive replacement.

[dddave]

My building handyman had his expensive Bosch drill rebuilt at a local professional tools shop on Sukhumvit 71 in Bangkok, lower end, near Soi 41.  He said he had the drill for 20 years and this was his 2nd rebuild.

 

I have a cheap, B400 knock-off cordless drill from Lazada.  It's about 5 years old and has been fine for the small jobs I have around my condo.  Never any heavy-duty work.  The 12v batteries just died last week. I was able to buy replacements on Lazada for B80 each.  Probably will give me another 5 years.

[Ralf001]

1 hour ago, cliveshep said:

50,000 baht - are you nuts?

Thats not retail price either..... nor did I include the delivery cost from my home country.

I'm a "buy for life" person... not "buy disposable" person.

Edited August 20, 2023 by Ralf001

[OneMoreFarang]

I have a couple of Bosch cordless tools. Most 18V, one 12V.

 

18V tools have (mostly) more power, but there is no point to have bigger and heavier tool, if you don't need the power.

I have this small 12V thing (Bosch GSR 12V-15 FC). It is small and light and fine for small screws and drilling holes (not in walls).

 

 

I also bought recently this one (Bosch - GSB 18V-90 C), which is bigger and also good enough to drill holes into bricks.

It all depends on what you need it for.

 

There are lots of videos about these kind of tools in YouTube. I suggest watch a couple of them to get a better idea of what you need.

 

 

 

 

[cliveshep]

1 hour ago, BarraMarra said:

If you are using a Cordless for home usage an 18v dill do all you need Makita, Bosch, Dewalt. Same as most go cheap last a year is your lucky, Smoking is a sighn of Brush wear try replacing the brushes cliveshep before you splash out for an expensive replacement.

Brushless motor actually! I've now ordered a 24volt impact wrench 2260Nm as Crossy advised, plus a chuck and adapter for normal drills. Comes with a set of impact sockets although having an air impact wrench I have those anyway. Wife is a bit concerned as other buyers complained it is very powerful, told her if undoing lug nuts hang on tight! But she is unlikely to do much of that, her car got new "boots" all round and my lorry has too but is a bit too heavy for her to work on anyway.

 

However, I will take the smoky machine to bits when I get a minute but like I say - 6 years of heavy use is good going really for a cordless. 

[TimeMachine]

If you use it mainly for screws and sockets I would recommend an impact driver.  And then a seperate drill for drilling holes and hammering. 

Lazda have now some decent makita copies but there are some crap ones too.  Let me know if you wanna try makita and ill give you link in PM.  Not a real makita but better value for money. If you run the drill all day,  sure buy original

As someone  suggested worth opening your old drill. 

 

Dc voltges above 50v are starting to become dangerous to touch. 

Those numbers will be nonsense numbers and most likely is the 20v or possibly 48v variety. You need to confirm with seller for real voltage. 

[cliveshep]

40 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

Thats not retail price either..... nor did I include the delivery cost from my home country.

I'm a "buy for life" person... not "buy disposable" person.

Wow, are you expecting to live that long that you can justify 50,000 baht? Sorry friend, for that amount I'd build the house as well! Out of my league, good tools can be had for a fraction of that and unless you are full-time working, for you as with most farang "lifetime working" is not daily hard use but occasional jobs around the house. 

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, BarraMarra said:

Smoking is a sighn of Brush wear try replacing the brushes cliveshep before you splash out for an expensive replacement.

Or buy brushless. They are better in many ways.

[OneMoreFarang]

4 minutes ago, cliveshep said:

Wow, are you expecting to live that long that you can justify 50,000 baht? Sorry friend, for that amount I'd build the house as well! Out of my league, good tools can be had for a fraction of that and unless you are full-time working, for you as with most farang "lifetime working" is not daily hard use but occasional jobs around the house. 

Some of us, including me, just one quality tools which last "forever" and we don't have to worry that they malfunction or give us any other headache.

Sure, professional tools are more expensive than the cheap things. But as some sales guys say: It hurts once when you pay for it and then they are great to use for years.

 

 

[cliveshep]

@Crossy - Sorry - got waylaid answering other posts. Taken your advice and ordered a really heavy-duty cordless impact wrench plus a chuck and adapter for normal drills. It comes with screwdriver bit attachment as part of the kit. So thanks for the advice there, it will do a lot more than originally anticipated.

 

@ TimeMachine - see above and other posts. I'm ahead of you lol!

 

[cliveshep]

@OneMoreFarang - all my corded tools bar two are Bosch or Makita. One exception is a 9 inch angle grinder which replaced a similar cheapo machine that had been cutting bricks and paving slabs for many years. If you are English you'll know of Wickes which at £40 is where it came from back in the late 90's. I bought a Chinese similar 9 inch one last year that cost me the same (converted from the baht) probably 30 years later!

 

So far I have cut down the external wall openings in our house (rendered concrete block) for 10 new ali windows replacing old wooden ones, plus several hundred paving slabs probably, and loads of Sheera roofing sheets all with a cheap chinese diamond blade still showing almost no signs of wear. Frankly if the machine quit tomorrow it has earned it's keep already saving us many thousands of getting in a company to cut down the walls. 

[Negita43]

I had this post sometime ago also

It is all very confusing I agree

 

[xtrnuno41]

Checked lazada, you see them, however not any machine has a product number.

All of them with the higher voltages and are mixed within the, I think, real ones. They have product numbers. Thats weird.

I was googling on DeWalt machines. Not any machine found with 149 volts.

Checked DeWalt site, not mentioning of any 149 volts machine. Tops is 54 volt, special series.

Connecting Li-on in series. A Li-on does 3.7 volt/cell, so for 149 volts the holder would be more then twice as big.

FV , well that could be, there is a converter in it. You can pump it up then to other voltages. 

Voltages higher, less amps. Never the less, battery is still Li-on with 3.7 volts.

No product number for the machines as i said is weird, then to me it looks FAKE.

Chinese (?) product with misuse of global name of manufacturers?

Dropshopping from China, where there are other rules?

 

About your machine, you cant open it? Maybe a minor fault, which you could fix?

Some dirt? you only state smoke.

Cow has compatibility with battery? Just one little change in it and your batteries dont fit.

Manufacturers mostly take care, you cant swap.

 

You see the difference in chargers of the Makita's and price?

Find without product number and high voltage, the other with product name.

 

 

Edited August 20, 2023 by xtrnuno41
additional txt

[cliveshep]

@xtrnuno41 - That is very informative, thanks. Had an epiphany this morning, at 77 and 78 at Christmas, chronic back pain, arthritis etc, realised that while Crossy and others are absolutely correct about an impact driver reality says 3 things.

1. I'm too old and decrepit to ever need it's massive power and 2. it would be useless to undo small screws in things as it would smash the item. Also 3, my wife will often use the cordless for her jobs and she won't want some super-powered tool that will rip itself out of her hands and when I am gone it is she who wants one available.

So we cancelled the impact driver that was costing twice as much as the one below that might or might not use the same batteries although they look identical, Muscle Cow ordered and on it's way.

As for the smoking old machine I can't open, as it is cooler in the mornings I'll take it into the workshop, clamp it in a vice, and belt the living hell out of it with a hammer and pry-bar as all the screws are out of it so it ought to come apart. Sh*t or Bust as they say, I suspect front thrust bearing is seized in the housing which is why the front won't come off although the main shell separates. But lots of gentle smoke wafting out of it in use suggests terminal short circuit somewhere. Still, it might be a capacitor and they are easily replaced.

Edited August 21, 2023 by cliveshep

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, cliveshep said:

I'm too old and decrepit to ever need it's massive power and 2. it would be useless to undo small screws in things as it would smash the item.

While you do have a couple of years on me your knowledge is a little lacking.

 

An impact driver is easier to use than the drill-driver illustrated above. It will undo screws in everything your muscle cow above can and others that the muscle cow will not.

 

A drill driver actually requires more strength to resist the torsional forces than an impact driver.

 

I don’t say that you shouldn’t have both I actually have 3 drill drivers 2 hammer drills and 1 impact driver, I regret not having bought the impact driver sooner.

 

The thing with the impact driver is that it can provide enough force to shear of No. 12 screws without you really noticing. DAMHIKT.

 

The drill-driver does have a clutch which the impact lacks but trigger control obviates the need for that.

[cliveshep]

@sometimewoodworker: Lacking knowledge is a bit steep when you don't know what I work on. The clutch is vital when working on electronics as I sometimes do, like our recalcitrant tv, lap top, kettle, coffee machine, freezer, washing machine, compressor etc all of which I have worked on in our home since we have been here. Availability of parts is far better than it is in the UK with it's "chuck it away not repair" culture.

 

For example, the UK washing machine tub & drum bearings failed due to a leaking seal and it's pump and drive belt needed replacement. The replacement bearings, identical Timkin bearing numbers, came from an autoparts shop in Minburi, the oil seal from a different shop also Minburi, the pump from Amorn in Rangsit, compressor capacitor from a spares place in a Ragsit back street, and the washing machine belt from ebay. The cordless was invaluable in speeding up dismantling/repair/reassembly of all of these. You dare not use an impact wrench on a pcb, not if you only intend to de-solder duff components and solder in new ones so the cordless is perfect.

 

I got a compressor and retractable hose reel in the workshop, and all the impact air tools if I get stuck with lug nots for example but for most things like cowlings and casing parts on the motorbike for example, or the dashboard elements on the lorry a cordless is ideal. 

 

You are right, an impact wrench would be a useful addition to the workshop, but my pension supports a wife, her family, a total of 3 large and 1 medium and 3 small dogs including my own Berger Picard, not a small dog by any means, owned by familt members so I got to spend wisely. No one is working, and two older of her relatives are not well, one requiring expensive medication, and that constrains me.

[Ralf001]

22 hours ago, cliveshep said:

Wow, are you expecting to live that long that you can justify 50,000 baht? Sorry friend, for that amount I'd build the house as well! Out of my league, good tools can be had for a fraction of that and unless you are full-time working, for you as with most farang "lifetime working" is not daily hard use but occasional jobs around the house. 

50k aint much.... and a drop in the ocean considering all the other tools I have.