Man kills shopkeeper in US state of California after disparaging Pride flag

[Chomper Higgot]

6 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

I suspect it was what started it. Unfortunately there are those who cannot stand people having differing opinions to themselves 

 

You'd know all about that.

Ad hominem.

[youreavinalaff]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Ad hominem.

That's one of your favourites when you don't have a counter.

 

As predictable as the monsoon showers, yet still funny.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

That's one of your favourites when you don't have a counter.

 

As predictable as the monsoon showers, yet still funny.

Sorry, personal attacks are ad hominem.

If it’s a common response it’s because it comes after commonly made personal attacks.

 

Do you have anything to say about the topic of discussion?

 

[youreavinalaff]

11 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Sorry, personal attacks are ad hominem.

If it’s a common response it’s because it comes after commonly made personal attacks.

 

Do you have anything to say about the topic of discussion?

 

Yes, I have been discussing the topic with others who have the ability for open discussions. Those who do not need to ignore bits they don't like.

 

It works really well and is interesting that way.

Edited August 21, 2023 by youreavinalaff

[Chomper Higgot]

8 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

I think I would disagree on this part Chomper.

I think the GOP and right wing media are on a crusade to demonise the LGBTQ community resulting in a 52% increase in anti-L.G.B.T.Q. hate crimes around the country in 2022 means it could easily just be someone 'being upset at seeing an LGBTQ+ flag'.

(https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/22/us/politics/anti-lgbtq-report-adl-glaad.html) 

I don’t dispute any of that.

 

But just as there is no evidence of religion being the killer’s motivation there is no evidence that the killer was motivated by rightwing hate mongering.

 

As I said, I look forward to hearing what the killer’s motivation was.

 

 

 

[KhunLA]

6 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I don’t dispute any of that.

 

But just as there is no evidence of religion being the killer’s motivation there is no evidence that the killer was motivated by rightwing hate mongering.

 

As I said, I look forward to hearing what the killer’s motivation was.

Obviously the killer was a bit unstable, and possibly a confrontational nutter.  That a flag/flags was the trigger is irrelevant.  The day before, it might have been a soda can on the walkway, but nobody to confront him.

 

Maybe the killer was planning on vandalizing all flags that day, and simply got confronted on the rainbow one before finishing the day's anti flag protest. 

 

Got to put something divisive in the headline.

 

Moral of story ... avoid nutters, call PoPo, as that's why you pay taxes.

Edited August 22, 2023 by KhunLA

[Neeranam]

9 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

This has EVERYTHING to do with the GOP. Why do you think it’s headline news?

One could say its about Biden using the LGBQ issue as a political tool, when we all know his real, historical thoughts on it. 

Many Democrats believe flying that flag in the white house was wrong. 

Sadly, like other things the press are trying to polarizer the issue. 

[jerrymahoney]

 

Suspect identified in shooting death of store owner over Pride flag: Police
The suspect was killed in a confrontation with sheriff deputies.

 

https://abcnews.go.com/US/california-store-owner-shot-dead-dispute-displaying-pride/story?id=102408818

Edited August 22, 2023 by jerrymahoney

[LosLobo]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

Obviously the killer was a bit unstable, and possibly a confrontational nutter.  That a flag/flags was the trigger is irrelevant.  The day before, it might have been a soda can on the walkway, but nobody to confront him.

 

Maybe the killer was planning on vandalizing all flags that day, and simply got confronted on the rainbow one before finishing the day's anti flag protest. 

 

Got to put something divisive in the headline.

 

Moral of story ... avoid nutters, call PoPo, as that's why you pay taxes.

Perhaps if the 'flag/flags were irrelevant', would you like to comment on the relevancy of Trump, shortly after his inauguration, quietly revoking the Obama ban on guns for those 'nutters' with mental illness?

 

Trump Signs Bill Revoking Obama-Era Gun Checks for People With Mental Illnesses (nbcnews.com)

 

 

Edited August 22, 2023 by LosLobo

[jerrymahoney]

A spokesperson for the sheriff's department told NBC News that the incident is being investigated as a potential hate crime, but officials did not elaborate when asked at the Monday press conference.

 

However, officials said Monday that Ikeguchi — a resident of Cedar Glen, California — had a history of making posts that were critical of the LGBTQ community and law enforcement on multiple social media platforms, including X, formerly known as Twitter.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/suspect-named-fatal-shooting-california-store-owner-pride-flag-rcna101085

[KhunLA]

23 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

Perhaps if the 'flag/flags were irrelevant', would you like to comment on the relevancy of Trump, shortly after his inauguration, quietly revoking the Obama ban on guns for those 'nutters' with mental illness?

 

Trump Signs Bill Revoking Obama-Era Gun Checks for People With Mental Illnesses (nbcnews.com)

As soon as you present evidence that the gun was legally obtained.

 

We all know every shooting death is Trump's fault.  I stumped my toe the other day, and all I could think of was ... 'damn you Trump'

 

No need to, as I found the information, IT WAS NOT registered to the suspected killer:

"Further revelations include that the gun used in the murder was a Smith & Wesson 9mm semi-automatic pistol, which was not registered to the suspect.

 

Additionally, it was noted that Ikeguchi’s family had reported him as missing the day before the tragic incident occurred."

 

Now, will the owner of the weapon be prosecuted, or will this be simply a continuation of failed enforcement of gun laws already in place.

 

But hey, let's add some more, so people can't defend themselves against nutters and or bigots.

 

Imagine the outcome if she/victim was trained and possessed a firearm.

 

Just a thought.

 

Edited August 22, 2023 by KhunLA

[JonnyF]

Interesting details starting to emerge.

 

https://opoyi.com/usa/who-was-travis-ikeguchi-murder-suspect-of-laura-carleton-named/

 

It would appear she knew she was upsetting people in her community but continued to ramp up the confrontation.

 

 

A terrible tragedy, RIP Laura. Maybe time for a pause for thought, it's possible to hold views without constantly ramming them down the throats of others. 

[heybruce]

11 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Interesting details starting to emerge.

 

https://opoyi.com/usa/who-was-travis-ikeguchi-murder-suspect-of-laura-carleton-named/

 

It would appear she knew she was upsetting people in her community but continued to ramp up the confrontation.

 

 

A terrible tragedy, RIP Laura. Maybe time for a pause for thought, it's possible to hold views without constantly ramming them down the throats of others. 

She didn't ram anything down anyone's throat, she publicly displayed her views, much like people wearing MAGA merchandise do.  Would you accuse a MAGA republican of ramming his/her views down the throats of others for wearing a MAGA hat in a predominantly Democrat area?

[KhunLA]

15 minutes ago, heybruce said:

She didn't ram anything down anyone's throat, she publicly displayed her views, much like people wearing MAGA merchandise do.  Would you accuse a MAGA republican of ramming his/her views down the throats of others for wearing a MAGA hat in a predominantly Democrat area?

Not to victim blame, and R I P, but to confront someone, vandalizing her flag, when it seems to be an ongoing thing, wasn't her best use of common sense.

 

That why you pay taxes & have police.  Hopefully since as you say, predominantly Dem area, they weren't defunded to the point of being short staffed to handle all calls.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 22, 2023 by KhunLA

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, jerrymahoney said:

 

Suspect identified in shooting death of store owner over Pride flag: Police
The suspect was killed in a confrontation with sheriff deputies.

 

https://abcnews.go.com/US/california-store-owner-shot-dead-dispute-displaying-pride/story?id=102408818

I suppose they call him Japanese American. 

[bamnutsak]

19 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

That why you pay taxes & have police.  Hopefully since as you say, predominantly Dem area, they weren't defunded to the point of being short staffed to handle all calls.

The alleged assailant was confronted by the police subsequently, and he died in an exchange of gunfire.

 

The suspected killer, who is now deceased, was identified as Travis Ikeguchi, 27, Sheriff Shannon Dicus said at a news conference on Monday evening.

 

After allegedly shooting Carleton, the suspect fled the crime scene on foot, but was found by sheriff's deputies several miles from her store, where he was fatally shot in a confrontation, authorities said. The sheriff's office said the assailant was armed with a handgun, which authorities said Monday night was a Smith & Wesson 9mm automatic handgun, and refused orders to drop the weapon.

 

When deputies tried to apprehend the suspect, he reportedly shot at them and they fired back. Despite using lifesaving measures, the suspect died at the scene, the sheriff said Monday.

 

https://abcnews.go.com/US/california-store-owner-shot-dead-dispute-displaying-pride/story?id=102408818

[KhunLA]

5 minutes ago, bamnutsak said:

The alleged assailant was confronted by the police subsequently, and he died in an exchange of gunfire.

 

The suspected killer, who is now deceased, was identified as Travis Ikeguchi, 27, Sheriff Shannon Dicus said at a news conference on Monday evening.

 

After allegedly shooting Carleton, the suspect fled the crime scene on foot, but was found by sheriff's deputies several miles from her store, where he was fatally shot in a confrontation, authorities said. The sheriff's office said the assailant was armed with a handgun, which authorities said Monday night was a Smith & Wesson 9mm automatic handgun, and refused orders to drop the weapon.

 

When deputies tried to apprehend the suspect, he reportedly shot at them and they fired back. Despite using lifesaving measures, the suspect died at the scene, the sheriff said Monday.

 

https://abcnews.go.com/US/california-store-owner-shot-dead-dispute-displaying-pride/story?id=102408818

And what relevance does that have to my reply, except maybe to enforce my thought, they are not staffed to handle misdemeanors, and didn't take action till a murder was committed.

 

Wee bit late, don't you think ?

 

In my experience, police aren't there to prevent crime, simply to take a record of it after the fact.

[Jingthing]

8 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I don’t dispute any of that.

 

But just as there is no evidence of religion being the killer’s motivation there is no evidence that the killer was motivated by rightwing hate mongering.

 

As I said, I look forward to hearing what the killer’s motivation was.

 

 

 

Anti LGBTQ hate crime.

Sometimes a cigar is a cigar.

[FritsSikkink]

16 hours ago, Baht Simpson said:

She was demonstrating her belief, which is her right to freedom of expression.  He turned up at her property with a gun, trespassed, then damaged her property, confronted her then shot and killed her.  But all you can see is her imposing her beliefs on him, of which there is no evidence.  

You are wrong, read my earlier post. I believe these religious fundamentalists should mind their own business.

[jerrymahoney]

14 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Anti LGBTQ hate crime.

Sometimes a cigar is a cigar.

Also sounds like maybe there was a suicide-by-police element.

[Jingthing]

43 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

Also sounds like maybe there was a suicide-by-police element.

He was fleeing so that part of it is more ambiguous. 

[jerrymahoney]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

He was fleeing so that part of it is more ambiguous. 

He was fleeing on foot and fired back at the police when they caught up with him. And one report says that his family reported him missing yesterday.

 

But he apparently did have a track record of posting anti-LGBTQ messages online.

[Bkk Brian]

The questioning whether he was after any flag better look at his twitter  feed. It’s still up. Not only was he anti trans, homophobic, antisemitic, anti vax and anti Biden but the Pride flag was a prime target for him.

 

https://x.com/travisikeguchi/

 

 

 

 

Edited August 22, 2023 by Bkk Brian

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

I suppose they call him Japanese American. 

You suppose wrongly.

 

2 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Interesting details starting to emerge.

 

https://opoyi.com/usa/who-was-travis-ikeguchi-murder-suspect-of-laura-carleton-named/

 

It would appear she knew she was upsetting people in her community but continued to ramp up the confrontation.

 

 

A terrible tragedy, RIP Laura. Maybe time for a pause for thought, it's possible to hold views without constantly ramming them down the throats of others. 

Hanging a flag of whatever size is ramming opinions down someone's throat? Did she strap viewers into a chair, prop open their eyelids and make them stare at the flags? You keep on edging closer and closer to She was asking for it.

[Jingthing]

23 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

He was fleeing on foot and fired back at the police when they caught up with him. And one report says that his family reported him missing yesterday.

 

But he apparently did have a track record of posting anti-LGBTQ messages online.

Not apparently. 

Did.

[jerrymahoney]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Not apparently. 

Did.

OK.

[heybruce]

2 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Not to victim blame, and R I P, but to confront someone, vandalizing her flag, when it seems to be an ongoing thing, wasn't her best use of common sense.

 

That why you pay taxes & have police.  Hopefully since as you say, predominantly Dem area, they weren't defunded to the point of being short staffed to handle all calls.

Seriously?  You open with "Not to victim blame" then you victim blame?

 

Do you think the civil rights movement would have succeeded without confronting people about injustice?

[johnnybangkok]

2 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Not to victim blame, and R I P, but to confront someone, vandalizing her flag, when it seems to be an ongoing thing, wasn't her best use of common sense.

 

That why you pay taxes & have police.  Hopefully since as you say, predominantly Dem area, they weren't defunded to the point of being short staffed to handle all calls.

 

 

 

 

'Not to victim blame' - then predictably continues to victim blame.

Edited August 22, 2023 by johnnybangkok

[johnnybangkok]

3 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Interesting details starting to emerge.

 

https://opoyi.com/usa/who-was-travis-ikeguchi-murder-suspect-of-laura-carleton-named/

 

It would appear she knew she was upsetting people in her community but continued to ramp up the confrontation.

 

 

A terrible tragedy, RIP Laura. Maybe time for a pause for thought, it's possible to hold views without constantly ramming them down the throats of others. 

And talking about victim blaming.................

[johnnybangkok]

55 minutes ago, placeholder said:

You suppose wrongly.

 

Hanging a flag of whatever size is ramming opinions down someone's throat? Did she strap viewers into a chair, prop open their eyelids and make them stare at the flags? You keep on edging closer and closer to She was asking for it.

That's been his common sentiment throughout this thread. A fluffy, pearl clutching version of 'she was asking for it'.