France to ban female students from wearing abayas in state schools

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I have no idea what that means.

 

I'll provide a link for proof as you like those.

 

https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-030-83582-8_16

Most of us grow up assuming that the Qur’an stipulates that women must cover their hair and wear clothing that covers all skin except for the face, hands and feet. Yet there is no dress code whatsoever for either men or women beyond covering their private parts (and there is no ambiguity whatsoever in the Qur’an about what those are).

This is not proof about what people believe their religion requires or how they interpret the Qur'an

https://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/beliefs/hijab_1.shtml#What The Qur'an Says About The Veil and Modesty

 

[thaibeachlovers]

7 minutes ago, placeholder said:

This is not proof about what people believe their religion requires or how they interpret the Qur'an

https://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/beliefs/hijab_1.shtml#What The Qur'an Says About The Veil and Modesty

 

I give up, Carry on without me.

[youreavinalaff]

1 hour ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Thailand is your Country now and Thai Schools do not have Nativity plays .

Wrong.

 

Part of the Englush language teaching curriculum is to have a Christmas day activities day. More often than not, this will include nativity plays.

[BarraMarra]

If they were allowed it they would wear it.

[BarraMarra]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

 

So, apparently, your idea of a good teacher is someone who waits  find out if a student understands rather than address the problem right on the spot. Bizarre.

Or making Muslin Females remove there Burkah through Airport security, why do you think thats done Nick ?

Edited August 29, 2023 by BarraMarra

[BarraMarra]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

More mind reading from you. No chance that they might believe their religion requires clothing and/or accessories?

Rules placeholder a School Uniform for all in School. Once out of School there free To wear whatver they want. 

[BarraMarra]

So if Muslim Schoolgirl is allowed to wear the Burkah whats to stop a boy donning the burkah and enter a class room of 100% Girls,

[placeholder]

17 minutes ago, BarraMarra said:

Rules placeholder a School Uniform for all in School. Once out of School there free To wear whatver they want. 

What is this got to do with panagama's claim about the motives of the parents?

[BarraMarra]

Got me there Placeholder after looking through the threads don't see a Panagama ? post.

[placeholder]

7 minutes ago, BarraMarra said:

Got me there Placeholder after looking through the threads don't see a Panagama ? post.

Dictating to my mobile I didn't check. Hanaguma

[RocketDog]

22 hours ago, observer90210 said:

Do not misunderstand my point as I have no belief in any form of religious symbols or practice. Obviously peer pressure exists and has influence. But I may consider that once an adult and if living in the west, people can choose for themselves and bypass certain codes.

 

Furthermore, I do see many kids within the norms as considered by some... of a "decent family" (caucasian, white, christian catholic bla bla). The teen girls leave home dressed to the neck and once outside, they change clothes and wear the tight tank tops showing cleavage. All teens have social pressure should it be muslims or the puritain catholics and so on. But obviously it can reach some other extremes as you have stated.

 

One cannot take muslims seriously banning booze, praying and on the other side getting drunk or stoned in hi-so circles in Abu Dhabi or Dubai and similar.

 

Neither can one take seriously  those in Sunday church service with wife and family, all squeeky clean and the next night they are showering 1$ bills in some seedy stripper club during the Monday "business trip".

 

One could consider the atheists and agnostics as the future to peace in the world.

Well said and I fully agree, but your premise stated "that once an adult and if living in the west, people can choose" is a key qualifier. Again I agree. I was raised catholic but I was in my 40's before I was able to shed the dogma.

 

Your statement about temporarily 'losing their faith' is clearly evident with many Muslims living or traveling outside their own countries. I've observed it too. The 9-11 highjackers frequented strip bars while taking their flight training and drank excessively. This simply proves my point about their repressive and vindictive treatment of their followers.

 

Also, as one of my muslim friends pointed out, one cannot really speak about Islam collectively as there are literally dozens of variations on Islam and their fight among themselves.

 

Of course many westerners change when leaving home, 'finding themselves', and that is usually gratifying to parents because kids are starting to question things and think for themselves.

That said, my statement bears a similar qualifier for those raised in Islam. Rejecting faith ANYTIME in their future life brands them as apostate, strictly forbidden, and punishable by fatwa and death.

That is not in any way similar to western freedom of choice.

Also Islam's indoctrination begins so early in life and is impressed do deeply that it is all but impossible for those children to shed the dogma, even if they are willing to be banished from their society and face death. Yet another hypocrisy in Islam's claim of being a religion of tolerance and peace.

 

Islam is an outlier cult compared to all other cults globally. It is instead a belief in indoctrination, repression, hypocrisy, intolerance, intimidation, mysogeny, and belligerence.

 

Societies that show overbearing tolerance for Muslims will eventually find their children living under sharia law. Those who offer such tolerance should read the koran carefully before lavishing their approval so easily. That was my point in my reply to you.

[RocketDog]

21 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

Or if all those gods have an annual get together, like a G7 meeting...

Surely they must. Are the 72 Virgins allowed to attend as entertainment? Then do they elect a leader among themselves, etc ad infinitum like a reflection caught between two mirrors?

Religion is a house of cards, shake one and the entire structure falls apart. That's when they start up about 'faith' as the key.

 

You get it or you don't and never the twain shall meet.

[placnx]

On 8/28/2023 at 2:49 PM, Sigmund said:

In a Church a Mosque or a Synagogue...religion is plainly an excuse and outlet for many freaks who just want to take the readings out of context and spread their hate with preaching extremists.

 

The Bible, the Coran, the Torah and so on,  have never advocated for hate in their texts.

By today's standards, the Torah, and by extension the Bible and Koran, contain episodes that would be considered ethnic cleansing or genocide. 

[Mr Derek]

Why are people worried about the feelings of immigrants? By becoming an immigrant have by that very fact forfeited their own culture, their own traditions, their own language, their own standards of behaviour, and are required to conform to the culture of the host nation - at least when in public. That has to be understood. They should be made to sign a statement acknowledging such on the immigration document. Problem solved.  

[JeffersLos]

On 8/28/2023 at 2:16 PM, RocketDog said:

Islam is not a religion, it's a cult.

Stand back folks, a professor of religious studies is here. 

[Nick Carter icp]

3 minutes ago, Mr Derek said:

Why are people worried about the feelings of immigrants? By becoming an immigrant have by that very fact forfeited their own culture, their own traditions, their own language, their own standards of behaviour, and are required to conform to the culture of the host nation - at least when in public. That has to be understood. They should be made to sign a statement acknowledging such on the immigration document. Problem solved.  

Are you doing the same in Thailand ?

   Have you forfeiting your own Western culture and fully immersed yourself in Thai Culture ?

  Speaking and reading fluent Thai and Wai ing at appropriate times , always smiling and driving like  lunatic ?

   Have you fully immersed yourself in Thai culture ?

 

[JeffersLos]

3 hours ago, BarraMarra said:

So if Muslim Schoolgirl is allowed to wear the Burkah whats to stop a boy donning the burkah and enter a class room of 100% Girls,

Or the penguin enclosure at the zoo. 

[RocketDog]

21 minutes ago, JeffersLos said:

Stand back folks, a professor of religious studies is here. 

Don't stand back. Get involved; educate yourself to the danger that free societies are facing. Your grandchildren may thank you.

Here's a clue :

China, North Korea, Russia, Iran, and most muslim countries are not our friends. They do not and never will share our ideals/values and work daily for the destruction of western countries.

[RocketDog]

1 hour ago, placnx said:

By today's standards, the Torah, and by extension the Bible and Koran, contain episodes that would be considered ethnic cleansing or genocide. 

All these 'Holy' texts are rife with such examples. So one can read them and form an opinion OR one can remain ignorant but politically correct and grant them all tolerance of their beliefs without thinking.

[placeholder]

57 minutes ago, Mr Derek said:

Why are people worried about the feelings of immigrants? By becoming an immigrant have by that very fact forfeited their own culture, their own traditions, their own language, their own standards of behaviour, and are required to conform to the culture of the host nation - at least when in public. That has to be understood. They should be made to sign a statement acknowledging such on the immigration document. Problem solved.  

And the eating of falafel in public should be banned.

[JeffersLos]

3 minutes ago, placeholder said:

And the eating of falafel in public should be banned.

Or the gas that is expelled 15 minutes later should be, at least. 

[BarraMarra]

5 hours ago, Mr Derek said:

Why are people worried about the feelings of immigrants? By becoming an immigrant have by that very fact forfeited their own culture, their own traditions, their own language, their own standards of behaviour, and are required to conform to the culture of the host nation - at least when in public. That has to be understood. They should be made to sign a statement acknowledging such on the immigration document. Problem solved.  

So if you were born in the UK but your parents came from Pakistan are you a Pakistani or British?

[pacovl46]

12 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The government has every right to tell people in public institutions what to wear. How about if the army can wear whatever soldiers want?

If a muslim wants to make their child wear an abaya they can send them to a private school.

You’re comparing oranges to apples! If someone joins the army then they have to wear a uniform, that’s part of the deal. By the way, the army is not a public institution. If someone wants to go to a specific school and their students are required to wear a school uniform then they know that beforehand and they have a choice. But that idiot is making choices for other people and he has no right to do that. They have religious freedom in France and quite a few religions express their religion through specific clothing and I don’t see anything wrong with that. Who the <deleted> does he think he is that he can make decisions for people like that? And what’s next, everyone who wants to live in France has to convert to Christianity? 
 

I don’t understand why this even a subject matter! All it does is create friction and trouble down the road. France has a very dodgy reputation in that regard already anyway, they shouldn’t be throwing oil into the fire in my opinion. But then again, what can you expect from a country that thinks making fun of other religions is way more important than their own citizens keeping their lives! 

[pacovl46]

11 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

So you are in favour of Schoolgirls in France being allowed to wear the full face covering Burka ?

This article isn’t about the burka, now is it? They already banned headscarves. This article is about a loose fitting coverall/dress like garment. Why did this have to go? It just doesn’t make sense! It’s like saying women can’t come to school in lose fitting dresses! This is simply a devious, malicious stab at Muslims, aimed to piss them off. That’s literally all it is. And that <deleted> idiot who “made the decision” is willingly risking the lives of other people, so he can push through is personal vendetta agenda! Don’t be surprised if there will be another terror ist attack on French soil in the near future because unfortunately they have religiously zealous people over there who are willing to die to avenge the “insult!” Which apparently is something that some people in France, the idiot is definitely amongst them, still haven’t grasped. 

[Nick Carter icp]

1 minute ago, pacovl46 said:

This article isn’t about the burka, now is it?  

The point that I was making was that should people have the freedom to wear what they want to or not , the discussion had moved on slightly from the topic of this story .

   

[candide]

54 minutes ago, pacovl46 said:

This article isn’t about the burka, now is it? They already banned headscarves. This article is about a loose fitting coverall/dress like garment. Why did this have to go? It just doesn’t make sense! It’s like saying women can’t come to school in lose fitting dresses! This is simply a devious, malicious stab at Muslims, aimed to piss them off. That’s literally all it is. And that <deleted> idiot who “made the decision” is willingly risking the lives of other people, so he can push through is personal vendetta agenda! Don’t be surprised if there will be another terror ist attack on French soil in the near future because unfortunately they have religiously zealous people over there who are willing to die to avenge the “insult!” Which apparently is something that some people in France, the idiot is definitely amongst them, still haven’t grasped. 

Are you suggesting that terrorists' will should dictate or influence public policies of a democratic and secular country?

[pacovl46]

5 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

The point that I was making was that should people have the freedom to wear what they want to or not , the discussion had moved on slightly from the topic of this story .

   

Full face no,  headscarf not a problem for me at all! 

[pacovl46]

4 hours ago, candide said:

Are you suggesting that terrorists' will should dictate or influence public policies of a democratic and secular country?

Nope! What I'm saying is that France should back off with the needless Islam bashing! All they're doing is make more enemies and for what? What exactly is the point of banning that loose-fitting garment in schools? There's no reason for it. Its just a big fat middlefinger! 

 

Don't get me wrong,  I'm all for governments and judicial systems to be secular, but people don't have to be secular. I don't see them making a move on banning Christians from coming to school without their beloved cross pendant around the neck! In my opinion, if they wanna go down that road then it should apply to all religions and not just Islam! Hence, it's a big fat middlefinger! 

[Nick Carter icp]

2 hours ago, pacovl46 said:

Nope! What I'm saying is that France should back off with the needless Islam bashing! All they're doing is make more enemies and for what? What exactly is the point of banning that loose-fitting garment in schools? There's no reason for it. Its just a big fat middlefinger! 

 

Don't get me wrong,  I'm all for governments and judicial systems to be secular, but people don't have to be secular. I don't see them making a move on banning Christians from coming to school without their beloved cross pendant around the neck! In my opinion, if they wanna go down that road then it should apply to all religions and not just Islam! Hence, it's a big fat middlefinger! 

Not too different to the Taliban/Iran forcing girls to  wear the headscarf's .

   Its both telling girls what they have to wear .

The West is supposed to be tolerant 

[Hanaguma]

5 hours ago, pacovl46 said:

Nope! What I'm saying is that France should back off with the needless Islam bashing! All they're doing is make more enemies and for what? What exactly is the point of banning that loose-fitting garment in schools? There's no reason for it. Its just a big fat middlefinger! 

 

Don't get me wrong,  I'm all for governments and judicial systems to be secular, but people don't have to be secular. I don't see them making a move on banning Christians from coming to school without their beloved cross pendant around the neck! In my opinion, if they wanna go down that road then it should apply to all religions and not just Islam! Hence, it's a big fat middlefinger! 

I believe it has already been done- no crucifixes allowed in public schools in France...

 

People are NOT being forced to be secular- they can be as religious as they like. But when getting educated at government funded schools, they must all equally conform to non religious standards.