Thai gov. to tax (remitted) income from abroad for tax residents starting 2024 - Part I

[BE88]

 

Now I am waiting for an answer if pensions for expats will be taxed or not in 2024, since this must be declared in 2015 there is still a whole year to wait for the news so we will be busy for the next........ 365 days.

[jayboy]

1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:

in that respect they are far better equipped than most well informed laymen

 

No they really aren't.The benchmark is that of a well informed layman, not of some frazzled pensioner.Anybody with a working brain can understand the RD's pronouncements on this matter.

 

I'm not just kicking up the sand here.We will have to await the practical aspects over the next year or so, what to be included in filings or even whether to file at all etc.At the moment we are in the realm of speculation.

 

When all is clear specialist firms will certainly have a role.

[freeworld]

2 hours ago, tomkenet said:

Hope you earned this before 2023.

If earned in 2023 it is taxable.

 

If earned in 2023 and remitted in 2024 it would be tax-free, just like it has always been when remitted the year after earned.

 

This however changes for money earned in 2024.

 

The key word is earned. Just making a transfer does not automatically assume that it is earned income.

[The Cyclist]

14 minutes ago, jayboy said:

I'm not just kicking up the sand here.We will have to await the practical aspects over the next year or so, what to be included in filings or even whether to file at all etc.At the moment we are in the realm of speculation.

 

 

This is exactly where we are, still in the realms of speculation.

 

Which includes

 

* Posters here

 

* Tax Consultancies.

 

* So called experts

 

* Any others that are capable of operating a keyboard, with or without the help of a responsible adult.

[JimGant]

14 hours ago, stat said:

There will be no withholding tax deducted in the coming months as a change like this will take years to implement on bank IT Level,

 

Remember, this whole enchilada was about taxing remitted ASSESSABLE INCOME, not taxing all remitted cash inflows. Banks aren't capable of differentiating between income and capital in a cash flow wire from your home country's checking or savings account. Neither is the RD. And they're not about to tax ALL remittances -- no further discussion needed on that point. Where does that leave us? Self-assessment, I guess -- with some new RD hires to do random compliance audits. Obviously, if they dropped the remittance aspect and just taxed income where and when earned, they'd have a lot bigger tax base -- with CRS and FATCA reporting now in play. But I'm sure there's already push back from the high rollers over dropping the remittance aspect. That we haven't heard anything further of late says there must be some heated discussions going on.

[retarius]

Are they ever going to announce how they will collect the tax?

[Mike Lister]

7 minutes ago, retarius said:

Are they ever going to announce how they will collect the tax?

Via a tax return is the only viable option.

[retarius]

Just now, Mike Lister said:

Via a tax return is the only viable option.

No it's not, they could apply a withholding tax to all transfers, easier and simpler, and more likely to get their money. 

[Mike Lister]

Just now, retarius said:

No it's not, they could apply a withholding tax to all transfers, easier and simpler, and more likely to get their money. 

Nonsense, for all the reasons stated thus to date, it's just not a starter.

[Yumthai]

18 minutes ago, retarius said:

No it's not, they could apply a withholding tax to all transfers, easier and simpler, and more likely to get their money. 

Will never happen although I would be ok for such rule, let's say 0.1% tax on each transaction, with no question asked.

Then, Thailand will become the new tax heaven for all HNWIs and UHNWIs.

Edited January 2 by Yumthai

[freeworld]

54 minutes ago, retarius said:

Are they ever going to announce how they will collect the tax?

The rules already exist and are the same as most other countries.

Edited January 2 by freeworld

[freeworld]

42 minutes ago, retarius said:

No it's not, they could apply a withholding tax to all transfers, easier and simpler, and more likely to get their money. 

False.

[JimGant]

54 minutes ago, retarius said:

No it's not, they could apply a withholding tax to all transfers, easier and simpler, and more likely to get their money. 

All transfers, income and capital...? Did you really think that through before you hit "send?"

[mokwit]

1 hour ago, retarius said:

Are they ever going to announce how they will collect the tax?

Through the nose I would imagine.

[retarius]

38 minutes ago, JimGant said:

All transfers, income and capital...? Did you really think that through before you hit "send?"

OF course I did. 

[retarius]

53 minutes ago, freeworld said:

False.

Prove it. Withholding taxers are much more efficient....they could make the banks and money transfer agents tax collectors meaning little effort and costs for themselves. The governments hold all the cars. The US do this all the time...anyone not complying gets hit with a huge fine. FACTA is an example of a government forcing foreign banks, to report earnings....banks already apply withholding  taxes on incomes of foreigners, hope easy is it to apply that to any foreign income sent to the same account. True it up at the end of the tax year. If I were the Thai government I would want all foreigners applying to get taxes back at the end of the year. 

Edited January 2 by retarius

[retarius]

57 minutes ago, freeworld said:

The rules already exist and are the same as most other countries.

So what are they? That we self report and pay taxes we hate? Then most of us will cheat. Not me obviously because I am an honest fellow. 

Edited January 2 by retarius

[retarius]

1 hour ago, Yumthai said:

Will never happen although I would be ok for such rule, let's say 0.1% tax on each transaction, with no question asked.

Then, Thailand will become the new tax heaven for all HNWIs and UHNWIs.

Totally wrong.....apply a 20% or 30% withholding tax and then make you true it up at the end of the year.....as you have to do if you have a withholding tax on your bank account interest. Cost the government nothing....like VAT. This makes the banks and money transfer companies in Thailand free tax collectors for the government. 

[freeworld]

6 minutes ago, retarius said:

So what are they? That we self report and pay taxes we hate? Then most of us will cheat. Not me obviously because I am an honest fellow. 

Read them on the rd web site, the tax code and refer to accountancy companies and their  websites, go to rd and ask them for help.

Edited January 2 by freeworld

[freeworld]

2 minutes ago, retarius said:

Totally wrong.....apply a 20% or 30% withholding tax and then make you true it up at the end of the year.....as you have to do if you have a withholding tax on your bank account interest. Cost the government nothing....like VAT. This makes the banks and money transfer companies in Thailand free tax collectors for the government. 

Nonsense.

[proton]

1 hour ago, retarius said:

Are they ever going to announce how they will collect the tax?

 

An app which will not work 

[retarius]

6 minutes ago, freeworld said:

Nonsense.

Why, are you staying it can't be done? It's done all over the world by other governments here. It's done by banks for interest income, and it's done by companies for employees paid salaries the same as PAYE. Explain to me why it can't be done. You can't because it can be done, and very easily. It's New Year and I'm already sick of dealing with morons.

[Bluetongue]

Like most I assume that I wait for the fine print. As far as Aus goes they changed to this 180 day rule recently but its based on financial year ie July 1 to June 30. Before you could self assess, and I always got to the statement that said contact the tax office, I never did. Now I have been in the habit of doing about 6 months here and 6 months over there. Perhaps the pencil necks who now run the world would like me to pay as a resident in both countries, as I have done 180 days in both. The idea that people should run their lives on some arbitrary bureaucratic determination of what residency consists of is ridiculous and the fact that all countries seem to be doing it is proof that the politicians have been convinced to go along with it. So there must be more money in it. One of its stated aims would be to catch the super rich but of course they will be alright. As Kerry Packer, an Australian business once said to a senate tax inquiry, " of course I minimize my tax, anyone that doesn't needs their head read, you aren't spending it well enough to make me want to give you more than I have to". And their judicious spending of our money has only gotten much worse in the intervening 30 years.

[Mike Lister]

19 minutes ago, retarius said:

Prove it. Withholding taxers are much more efficient....they could make the banks and money transfer agents tax collectors meaning little effort and costs for themselves. The governments hold all the cars. The US do this all the time...anyone not complying gets hit with a huge fine. FACTA is an example of a government forcing foreign banks, to report earnings....banks already apply withholding  taxes on incomes of foreigners, hope easy is it to apply that to any foreign income sent to the same account. True it up at the end of the tax year. If I were the Thai government I would want all foreigners applying to get taxes back at the end of the year. 

Whilst you are entitled to your opinion in all matters, there is such a weight of evidence to the contrary in this matter that for you to go against that raises the questions of whether or not you are trolling or purposely trying to spread disinformation for some reason! Regardless of your motives, you need to understand that by continuing to argue this point, you are causing substantial distress to people who don't understand taxation. Let me once again set out some of the reasons why a tax on all transfers is simply not viable:

 

1) Neither the banks nor the RD knows when a transfer is made, whether the funds are assessable income or not.

 

2) Neither the banks nor the RD understands whether the recipient of the funds transfer is tax resident or not.

 

3) A tax on all transfers would, kill the Thai property markets, in places such as Phuket, stone cold dead.

 

4) A tax on all inbound transfers would reduce FDI to a trickle. Who is going to invest in Thailand, knowing their initial investment is taxed at source.

 

5) A tax on all inbound transfers would cause large numbers of retired expats to leave, along with the support those 150,00 people bring to the local economies',

 

6) A tax on all transfers would badly hurt several business sectors, including medical and automobile sales.

 

7) A tax on inbound transfers has no precedent anywhere in the world, apart from Myanmar (a military junta in civil war) and India (as it relates to certain locations only). Thailands reputation as a business friendly country would reverse and they would be seen as a pariah state.

 

 

 

[freeworld]

41 minutes ago, retarius said:

Why, are you staying it can't be done? It's done all over the world by other governments here. It's done by banks for interest income, and it's done by companies for employees paid salaries the same as PAYE. Explain to me why it can't be done. You can't because it can be done, and very easily. It's New Year and I'm already sick of dealing with morons.

Why must it be done. Where in the world do countries tax money just transferred?

 

What about investors and companies, must govt tax their transfers?

 

The world over interest in come is taxable subject to an exempt part, that rule already exists for many years, the interest income is generated on a sum of money in a bank account and on the statement it is seen and interest income.

 

Just transfers of money into a bank account is not pure income, the bank knows nothing about that money how and where it was earned. The origin of that money and how it was generated with documentary evidence that is the income and is dealt with by the tax payer and the tax office, it is then declared/reported as assessable income by filling in a tax return as it is done everywhere.

Edited January 2 by freeworld

[jaideedave]

18 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

US Social Security overseas is paid primarily on 3rd each month, not long to wait.

I just transferred one of my pensions from Canada yesterday Jan 1st using Wise.

All done in a matter of seconds exactly as stated with zero deductions and no surprises.

[Ralf001]

2 hours ago, retarius said:

Are they ever going to announce how they will collect the tax?

 

Some time before end of the financial year I reckon.

Edited January 2 by Ralf001

[Ralf001]

51 minutes ago, retarius said:

 FACTA is an example of a government forcing foreign banks, to report earnings

 

How does he bank know it is earnings ?

[StayinThailand2much]

2 hours ago, retarius said:

No it's not, they could apply a withholding tax to all transfers, easier and simpler, and more likely to get their money. 

 

Yes, that's the question. Will they...

 

(A) Patiently wait for lodged tax returns by Thais who invest overseas, and foreigners, possibly resulting in very little extra revenue (after all, they don't have contact addresses of expats, or Thais who never lodged a tax return), or

 

(B) Go after transfers, forcing the account holders to lodge tax returns, and provide whatever proof of earlier taxation they have/don't have, resulting in large extra revenue for the RD.

 

 

(A) would indicate that they just want to comply with international regulations, while (B) would generate a lot of income which the government is keen to get their hands on.

 

 

 

Edited January 2 by StayinThailand2much

[Trip Hop]

36 minutes ago, retarius said:

Why, are you staying it can't be done? It's done all over the world by other governments here. It's done by banks for interest income, and it's done by companies for employees paid salaries the same as PAYE. Explain to me why it can't be done. You can't because it can be done, and very easily. It's New Year and I'm already sick of dealing with morons.

Let's put a bit of common sense in your argument?  Thailand wants investment, period.  In the case of an individual wanting to buy say a condo, under your rhetoric they'd have to remit say 20% over the purchase price to cover the withholding tax on the chance that they may get it back at the end of the year or possibly several months after that?  Need I say any more?