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Thai gov. to tax (remitted) income from abroad for tax residents starting 2024 - Part I


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Posted
On 9/18/2023 at 9:57 AM, connda said:

Eventually someone is going to write, "Does that mean farang's pension income too."

Short answer would probably be "No," at least for those countries with bilateral tax agreements with Thailand.  If you're paying income tax in your home countries, then Thailand has no claim to tax the income twice.

But if it is pension income that is not taxable in your home country, then your argument doesn't apply. You could end up having to pay tax on your formerly tax-free pension.

Posted
53 minutes ago, paddypower said:

can I ask are you Canadian resident for tax purposes, or deemed non-resident?

Canadian resident

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Posted
4 hours ago, paddypower said:

very soon, this will have a negative effect on new sales of investment condos to foreigners. unless buyers are advised by real estate agencies to just rent it out and don't report the income. Realtors are called 'real-a-snakes' in Ireland (partially because many are also lawyers).

I wonder what will be the tax mans take if I agree with the owner to pay my rent to his off shore account. So I never brought the money into thailand 🙂

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Posted
On 10/22/2023 at 2:59 PM, mokwit said:

You may at some point in the future need to give your bank your TIN to keep the account open bearing in mind the BoT being stricter about non resident accounts. SCB won't open a bank account now without a TIN. You may need a TIN in order to keep the account open in order to be able to show financial proof at extension time.

When did this come in with SCB? - I was there yesterday getting a new card, and had no issues... also informed my credit card would be sent to my home address, no changes.

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Posted
3 hours ago, stat said:

I wonder what will be the tax mans take if I agree with the owner to pay my rent to his off shore account. So I never brought the money into thailand

If the Thai RD adopts the principles of remittance used in the UK for their remittance-based system of income taxation for non-domiciled tax residents with foreign income, similar to what is being discussed for expat tax residents in Thailand:

 

A taxable remittance also occurs where a service is provided in the UK for the benefit of the individual or any other relevant person and the consideration for that service is met using the individual’s foreign income or gains.

Services provided in the UK

  • You transfer some of your foreign income from your overseas account to the overseas account of a trader who has provided you with a service in the UK.
  • You transfer some of your foreign income to the overseas account of a friend in exchange for using his cottage in the UK for a week.

HMRC Residence, Domicile and Remittance Basis Manual:  RDRM33050 - Remittance Basis: Practical Examples of Remittances to the UK

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Posted
3 hours ago, stat said:

I wonder what will be the tax mans take if I agree with the owner to pay my rent to his off shore account. So I never brought the money into thailand 🙂

The British guidelines posted by Guavaman mean that "remittance" does not have to be a bank transfer.  It is any way that makes use of offshore income to get an economic advantage (goods, services, whatever) onshore.

One can only hope that the Thais will say a "remittance" is a remittance.

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Posted
13 hours ago, Jenkins9039 said:

When did this come in with SCB? - I was there yesterday getting a new card, and had no issues... also informed my credit card would be sent to my home address, no changes.

Apparently they won't open a new account without a TIN now. Not hearing/experiencing request for TIN before they will allow you to do anything, BUT this may come. I can see a possible situation where you might have to provide a TIN to maintain the account.

Posted
14 minutes ago, mokwit said:

Apparently they won't open a new account without a TIN now. Not hearing/experiencing request for TIN before they will allow you to do anything, BUT this may come. I can see a possible situation where you might have to provide a TIN to maintain the account.

 

Yea right, how many Thais have a TIN?.....I bet most Thais do not have one....

Posted
59 minutes ago, mokwit said:

I can see a possible situation where you might have to provide a TIN to maintain the account.

And where might you be seeing that?

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Posted

For us married guys.

 

What about the wife gets an overseas bank account.

 

You both remit half of your needs. Should reduce the tax significantly to share the income 50/50 

Posted
6 hours ago, bugger bognor said:

look into the mirror and repeat the word <deleted> three times! yes that's what you are if you believe you will be submitting tax returns or paying any tax in Thailand and that's being kind

Bell end

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Posted

I can see conversations being held behind closed, particularly by the 61 Countries who have DTA's with Thailand.

 

Along the lines of ' You have less than 4 million Thais paying income tax, suggest you sort our your own internal affairs, before thinking about taxing Citizens of other Countries '

Posted
3 hours ago, tomkenet said:

For us married guys.

 

What about the wife gets an overseas bank account.

 

You both remit half of your needs. Should reduce the tax significantly to share the income 50/50 

True, and kids have bank accounts... and kids don't have to pay tax, and kids can gift to you.

Posted
3 hours ago, bugger bognor said:

Bell end

 

Did you mean a Bell Helmet.

They are very good,  I gave my misses one. :giggle:

 

Could contain:

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Posted
5 hours ago, jacko45k said:

And where might you be seeing that?  (Needing a TIN)

In Australia and most western countries, banks require a Tax Number or they withold part of the 'earnings' and report that to their Tax Dept.

Likely that one day Thailand will also adopt the same practice - if directed by Thai Govt (very suprised if SCB has already done that).

Also a possibility that in order to receive an extension in the future, a TIN and last year's tax certificate/return will be required (years away). 

Posted
3 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

I can see conversations being held behind closed, particularly by the 61 Countries who have DTA's with Thailand. Along the lines of ' You have less than 4 million Thais paying income tax, suggest you sort our your own internal affairs, before thinking about taxing Citizens of other Countries '

 

Huh? The DTAs with Thailand already give Thailand the right to tax certain foreign income belonging to foreign tax residents of Thailand (like, as a Yank, my IRA payout or my pension from Boeing, etc). Only because of their "remittance" requirement -- a domestic law, with no relationship to any DTA language -- to include "exempt if brought in in a later calendar year" have foreigners (along with Thai fat cats) been allowed to avoid Thai income tax.

 

Now, they're wising up, modifying their domestic remittance law to allow them to take full advantage of the DTA language giving them priority, or even exclusive taxation rights on certain foreign income belonging to tax resident foreign expats. Don't blame them for finally using the DTA agreement they signed to finally collect some tax on foreign income, that had been denied due to a stupid domestic law regarding "remittance."

 

Yes, the stupid remittance law will still be in place, which will still allow some, or maybe all, income from an expat to avoid taxation (if he doesn't need to bring that income into Thailand, ever). And the reason it will still be in place is because Thai fat cats still need it to shelter foreign income, which now, instead of being remitted in the following year, will stay abroad in Swiss ski chalet property, or used to buy yachts and private jets, to finally end up in Thailand for resale. Hey, Thailand, if you really want to fatten your coffer, do away with the remittance requirement and just tax foreign income -- like the rest of the civilized world does. Much harder for the fat cats to duck this.

 

Anyway, to somehow think the new proposed rule violates any language in any DTA is ridiculous. To the contrary -- just shows Thailand can finally make money by using the language of all those DTAs to its advantage.

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Posted
1 hour ago, quake said:

 

Did you mean a Bell Helmet.

They are very good I gave my misses one. :giggle:

 

Could contain:

 

I think it must be the place where he is from.  Must be a big fan of Bell End.

 

 

 

 

 

Posted
53 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Huh? The DTAs with Thailand already give Thailand the right to tax certain foreign income belonging to foreign tax residents of Thailand

 

Sure, that is not in doubt.

 

However, I do not think I will be the only one raising an eyebrow over this, especially when there are less than 4 million Thais paying income tax in Thailand, out of a population of some 7O odd million.

Posted
1 hour ago, The Cyclist said:

I can see conversations being held behind closed, particularly by the 61 Countries who have DTA's with Thailand.

 

Along the lines of ' You have less than 4 million Thais paying income tax, suggest you sort our your own internal affairs, before thinking about taxing Citizens of other Countries '

 

Thailands population is 69 million...

If only 4 million are paying taxes

That means 94% of the Thai population

pays NO tax on income....

 

Let that sink in.....

 

And they want farangs to pay their fair share...lol

 

This is beyond a joke....

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Posted
3 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

Thailands population is 69 million...

If only 4 million are paying taxes

That means 94% of the Thai population

pays NO tax on income....

 

Let that sink in.....

 

And they want farangs to pay their fair share...lol

 

This is beyond a joke....

 

Most sheep are always ready and even obediently ask to be sheared.

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Posted
22 hours ago, Metapod said:

So from all of this, my take away for my situation is to simply remit less money into Thailand and pay tax on what I remit. I had planned to make some more investments here but I'll be parking that money abroad and investing outside of Thailand instead. I'll also consider any large purchases or plans domestically as well if it will cost me an additional 30% to do it locally. I travel abroad frequently, so I'll do my major shopping in other countries and things like elective surgury for LASIK etc will just be done elsewhere.

 

 

I have been thinking about these issues too, but surely it's the case that we just don't know enough of the detail at this stage to make specific arrangements.I don't object to paying Thai income tax if fairly implemented.I do object to Thai income tax on inward remittances on sums which are from savings not income, and in my case have in part already had Thai tax paid on them years ago.

 

Be that as it may some possibilities come to mind:

 

- paying school fees directly to the school from off shore

- using foreign credit cards for Thailand expenditure - hotels, flights etc

- ramp up cash/bank holdings in Thailand now

 

and of course reduce remittances to Thailand as far as possible.

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