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Thai gov. to tax (remitted) income from abroad for tax residents starting 2024 - Part I


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7 hours ago, freeworld said:

You are going to sell your house to get clarification?

Don't get me started on the "Joys" of being a small landlord in the UK nowadays & things will only get worse if Labour do what they saying they're going to do when they get in next year. 

 

I was planning to sell the house anyway but this Tax announcement has the potential to make things more complicated, my main reason for selling is it's generating approx. 3% income after management/maintenance fees & you can get a better return by putting the money into a fixed deposit account, plus a big secondary reason for me is it will give me the $250K I need to support an LTR Visa application as my income is < $80 pa.

 

 

Edited by Mike Teavee
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3 hours ago, Misty said:

 

Thanks for posting the link above. At the bottom of the text it says the new criteria "will become enforced on 1 July 2024."  Is that a change or a typo?  I thought the effective date was 1 Jan 2024.

Good spot, I suspect it's a typo as all other sources say the new rules come in 1st January 2024 which makes more sense as it's the start of the new Thai Tax Year.

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7 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Good spot, I suspect it's a typo as all other sources say the new rules come in 1st January 2024 which makes more sense as it's the start of the new Thai Tax Year.

Yes maybe the rules become effective 01 Jan BUT it is impossible to assess an 180 day residency in any year before 180 days have passed

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5 hours ago, redwood1 said:

 

Anyone who stays in Thailand for over 180 days is a RESIDENT of Thailand....

 

Correction: 

Anyone who stays in Thailand for over 180 days is a TAX RESIDENT of Thailand (ie a resident for the purpose of taxation)

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3 hours ago, Negita43 said:

Yes maybe the rules become effective 01 Jan BUT it is impossible to assess an 180 day residency in any year before 180 days have passed

Another thought what if I stay 178 (for the sake of arguement) days until the end of one tax year followed immediately by 178 days (for the sake of arguement) from the beginning of the next tax year. Am I a tax resident? - Total time in Thailand 356 consecutive days

Edited by Negita43
clarifacation
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11 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

If the Revenue Department were to launch an aggressive campaign to generate additional income, it could see some expats from countries that do not have tax treaties with Thailand impacted or where tax has not been paid on retirement funding or other income remittances from foreign countries".

 

Scratches head 😀😀

 

I think I might have said a few times on this thread that income taxed in your home Country will probably not be subject to Thai tax ( especially Countries that have a DTA )

 

The tricky part ( for some ) will be proving that money has been taxed in Home Country before being remitted to Thailand.

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1 minute ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Scratches head 😀😀

 

I think I might have said a few times on this thread that income taxed in your home Country will probably not be subject to Thai tax ( especially Countries that have a DTA )

 

The tricky part ( for some ) will be proving that money has been taxed in Home Country before being remitted to Thailand.

Call me naive if you wish, but a tax return from the home country might help. 🙂

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12 minutes ago, Negita43 said:

Another thought what if I stay 178 (for the sake of arguement) days until the end of one tax year followed immediately by 178 days (for the sake of arguement) from the beginning of the next tax year. Am I a tax resident? - Total time in Thailand 356 consecutive days

No, you would not be tax resident. The days of residency in Thailand must be within a single tax year.

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45 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

My impression is that the Thai Examiner article is  a rewrite of this Sept. 29, 2023  article by Special Professor Kitipong Urapeepattanapong (in Thai, translate this page works fine), which I think was posted by Dogmatix (and copied to this thread by me) at the time. 

https://www.bangkokbiznews.com/finance/investment/1091100

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1 hour ago, The Cyclist said:

 

I always wondered why my pension providers sent me annual P60's all the way out to Thailand  😂😂

 

And which sometimes even arrive here, when our local postie makes his weekly (if that) visit, to our village !  🙄

 

Not knocking Thailand, just making the point that the postal-service is sometimes imperfect.  😎

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1 hour ago, The Cyclist said:

The tricky part ( for some ) will be proving that money has been taxed in Home Country before being remitted to Thailand.

 

I assume most countries revenue office are online and send a report to tax payer, also available when one log into ones personal account there.

No??

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After 130 pages, people are joining this thread who have not absorbed the valuable information about the Thai income tax system that has been shared here.

 

Let's face it, people don't want to wade through the 66% of grievances and personal situations that weigh down this valuable resource for tax planning for expats in Thailand.

 

I suggest that a new thread be established starting with the recent article in the Thai Examiner. 

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3 minutes ago, Guavaman said:

After 130 pages, people are joining this thread who have not absorbed the valuable information about the Thai income tax system that has been shared here.

 

Let's face it, people don't want to wade through the 66% of grievances and personal situations that weigh down this valuable resource for tax planning for expats in Thailand.

 

I suggest that a new thread be established starting with the recent article in the Thai Examiner. 

I understand your point but new people are always going to come along and want personalised answers without having to read the thread. I think it's probably best to keep everything in one place and insist that newcomers read through it all.

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45 minutes ago, Shop mak said:

 

I assume most countries revenue office are online and send a report to tax payer, also available when one log into ones personal account there.

No??

It does not solve the problem how to prove which funds have been taxed and which have not. As an example pls find attached a German Einkommensteuerbescheid. How will Somchai determine which funds have been taxed? Not even a German Wirtschaftsprüfer could tell because there are only cummulated resulted and taxes are not on an account or financial instrument level. Never mind that Somchai does not speak German or has the faintest idea of German tax law. As cyclist has correctly stated it is next to impossible to prove which funds have been taxed. However Thai RD could make some amends like in MY that if you ever had 100K USD in taxed income that would suffice to bring in 100K tax free.

Einkommensteuerbescheid_2019.pdf

Edited by stat
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5 hours ago, redwood1 said:

 

So in other words after 180 days you qualify as a resident for the bad stuff (taxes) but you don't qualify as a resident for any of the good stuff like (30 baht health care)...

 

You got that right.

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44 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

understand your point but new people are always going to come along and want personalised answers without having to read the thread. I think it's probably best to keep everything in one place and insist that newcomers read through it all.

"insist that newcomers read through it all"

Surely you jest -- these are homo sapiens! 

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2 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

An interesting article but it clarifies very little and certainly does nothing for the argument that foreigners are going to suffer:

 

"If the Revenue Department were to launch an aggressive campaign to generate additional income, it could see some expats from countries that do not have tax treaties with Thailand impacted or where tax has not been paid on retirement funding or other income remittances from foreign countries".

 

"Mr Kitipong suggests that Section 41, Paragraph 2 of the country’s Revenue Code gives minimal scope to the Thai government to tax any income from abroad by pointing out that the existing provision does not specify that income earned in foreign countries outside the jurisdiction of the Kingdom is subject to tax at all". 

 

"the change in direction by the new government will be a retrograde step for the Kingdom, which in recent years has been touting itself as a destination for foreign investors and global business executives because of its tax-friendly regime". 

 

"legal experts suggest that the department order issued on September 15 can quickly be challenged with a strong likelihood that it will be overturned".

 

https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news-foreigners/2023/11/04/tax-change-for-expats-living-in-thailand/

 

 

In my view, it clarifies a lot:

  1. Section 41 is for nationals of countries that have no Double Taxation with Thailand (DTA)
  2. The DTAs are for nationals of countries that have a DTA with Thailand.

 

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3 minutes ago, Guavaman said:

"insist that newcomers read through it all"

Surely you jest -- these are homo sapiens! 

 

Never mind the homo sapiens, but I think any homo sapiens sapiens coming fresh to this topic would be more than a little crazy to read through the 130 (so far) pages of this topic.

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