how to handle request of " no income declaration" from Thai authorities

[fvw53]

I am 79, married to a Thai wife, retired with Non Immigrant O visa and 800,000 THB blocked in SCB Bank which is verified by the local Immigration Officer.

From time to time we transfer money to Thailand to cover our living expenses here.

Now the tax authorities of my own country (EU member state) want me for the year 2020 to obtain a "no income declaration" (otherwise declare any income made in Thailand).

Some people say I need to apply for a TIN (Taxpayer Identification Number) but I had never any contact with the local Tax Authorities :  they have no data about me.

I never made any money in Thailand : I am too old to work and as a retiree I would not obtain a work permit.

Did any of the Forum members have to face a similar situation and how did it work out for them?

 

Edited September 18, 2023 by fvw53
typo

[foreverlomsak]

UK bank requested similar from me, I responded that I do not have a Thai TIN as I do not work here and all income in the UK is subject to UK taxes. Have not received any response to this statement.

[mfd101]

19 minutes ago, foreverlomsak said:

UK bank requested similar from me, I responded that I do not have a Thai TIN as I do not work here and all income in the UK is subject to UK taxes. Have not received any response to this statement.

Ditto for me re the Australian authorities. (I also gave them a lecture on sending me important papers thru the snailmail to Thailand, instead of emailing. That made me feel better.)

[Pdavies99]

15 hours ago, foreverlomsak said:

UK bank requested similar from me, I responded that I do not have a Thai TIN as I do not work here and all income in the UK is subject to UK taxes. Have not received any response to this statement.

They are normally okay with that.

[Shop mak]

Got a message from my bank back home that due to FATCA, I was required to get a TIN number.

I was not asked for income declaration from Thailand.

 

Was warned about that money transfer would stop, if I didn't send proof of TIN number.

 

Went to local Revenue office who wanted copy id page and last arrival stamp in Passport + Residence Certificate from Immigration, before issue a temporary TIN number, awaiting the blue card few weeks later.

 

Cities can have more than 1 Revenue branch, and one must be living in their 'area', to be issued a TIN card.

Different branches can have different requirements as I found out myself.

Call first.

 

 

[Shop mak]

Link with phone numbers to Revenue branches

 

https://www.rd.go.th/7452.html

 

https://rd.go.th/english/index-eng.html

 

[soalbundy]

16 hours ago, fvw53 said:

I am 79, married to a Thai wife, retired with Non Immigrant O visa and 800,000 THB blocked in SCB Bank which is verified by the local Immigration Officer.

From time to time we transfer money to Thailand to cover our living expenses here.

Now the tax authorities of my own country (EU member state) want me for the year 2020 to obtain a "no income declaration" (otherwise declare any income made in Thailand).

Some people say I need to apply for a TIN (Taxpayer Identification Number) but I had never any contact with the local Tax Authorities :  they have no data about me.

I never made any money in Thailand : I am too old to work and as a retiree I would not obtain a work permit.

Did any of the Forum members have to face a similar situation and how did it work out for them?

 

Yes, I had this problem once. The Thai tax office won't give you a declaration because you have no tax number (obviously because you aren't working) When I explained this to the manager he said he still cant give me the declaration because I may have unregistered income. My problem concerned the German tax office. I was advised to ask for a declaration from the German embassy which stated that the tax office in Thailand wouldn't sign the no income declaration and to send this to my tax office in Germany, this I did and it was accepted, I heard no more from them. Best of luck, I know how worrying this can be.

[arithai12]

28 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

The Thai tax office won't give you a declaration because you have no tax number (obviously because you aren't working)

"obviously" is a bit misleading. You mean, if he was working he obviously would have a TIN number. However, even as a retiree not having any fixed income in Thailand, it is entirely possible to obtain a TIN number.

 

I am retired, I declare income in Thailand from money I transfer from abroad, even if I don't really have to under current rules if the money was earned prior to the current year. This way, I pay a ridiculously low income tax in Thailand, and as I am a tax resident here I don't need to pay any income tax in my home country - showing TIN and tax declaration, similar to what is being asked from the OP.

 

 

[soalbundy]

7 minutes ago, arithai12 said:

"obviously" is a bit misleading. You mean, if he was working he obviously would have a TIN number. However, even as a retiree not having any fixed income in Thailand, it is entirely possible to obtain a TIN number.

 

I am retired, I declare income in Thailand from money I transfer from abroad, even if I don't really have to under current rules if the money was earned prior to the current year. This way, I pay a ridiculously low income tax in Thailand, and as I am a tax resident here I don't need to pay any income tax in my home country - showing TIN and tax declaration, similar to what is being asked from the OP.

 

 

Whatever, I merely wrote concerning my own experience at the Surin Tax office.

[mfd101]

12 minutes ago, arithai12 said:

"obviously" is a bit misleading. You mean, if he was working he obviously would have a TIN number. However, even as a retiree not having any fixed income in Thailand, it is entirely possible to obtain a TIN number.

 

I am retired, I declare income in Thailand from money I transfer from abroad, even if I don't really have to under current rules if the money was earned prior to the current year. This way, I pay a ridiculously low income tax in Thailand, and as I am a tax resident here I don't need to pay any income tax in my home country - showing TIN and tax declaration, similar to what is being asked from the OP.

 

 

That sounds very tempting. As an Australian 'not resident in Australia for tax purposes' I have 1/3 of my income confiscated each year by the Australian government.

 

If I could stop that and change to paying a nominal amount of income tax in Thailand, that would make a huge difference to our living standard here.

[koolkarl]

Starting this year, Thailand is now part of the international income and asset reporting agreement.  Your assets and income from outside Thailand will be reported to Thai authorities yearly and visa versa. Thailand is finished.

[andre47]

I went to the revenue office and asked for a TIN. Many foreign banks want you to show a TIN in order to be exempt from the final withholding tax. I have no income in Thailand and have never filed a tax return.

[TigerandDog]

1 hour ago, mfd101 said:

That sounds very tempting. As an Australian 'not resident in Australia for tax purposes' I have 1/3 of my income confiscated each year by the Australian government.

 

If I could stop that and change to paying a nominal amount of income tax in Thailand, that would make a huge difference to our living standard here.

Unfortunately that's not possible in Oz. Income earned in Oz is taxable in Oz but NOT in Thailand under current tax rules if earned in the previous year.  Even when the new Thai tax rules come into effect next year whereby all monetary transfers into Thailand are going to be treated as income and subject to Thai income tax, there is a tax treaty between Oz and Thailand so your income should still only be taxed in Oz , not both countries.

[mfd101]

7 minutes ago, TigerandDog said:

Unfortunately that's not possible in Oz. Income earned in Oz is taxable in Oz but NOT in Thailand under current tax rules if earned in the previous year.  Even when the new Thai tax rules come into effect next year whereby all monetary transfers into Thailand are going to be treated as income and subject to Thai income tax, there is a tax treaty between Oz and Thailand so your income should still only be taxed in Oz , not both countries.

Sob sob. It seemed like a good idea ... ????

[mfd101]

9 minutes ago, TigerandDog said:

Unfortunately that's not possible in Oz. Income earned in Oz is taxable in Oz but NOT in Thailand under current tax rules if earned in the previous year.  Even when the new Thai tax rules come into effect next year whereby all monetary transfers into Thailand are going to be treated as income and subject to Thai income tax, there is a tax treaty between Oz and Thailand so your income should still only be taxed in Oz , not both countries.

PS But what if it's earned in the current year?as mine is. ie Every time I bring currency in from Oz, I pay x amount of tax to Thailand ...

[TigerandDog]

2 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

PS But what if it's earned in the current year?as mine is. ie Every time I bring currency in from Oz, I pay x amount of tax to Thailand ...

if you're paying tax in Thailand too, then get a Thai Tax ID and lodge a tax return each year at your local Revenue Office  I don't bring money in from Oz but I earn interest on my Thai bank account balance and it is taxed at 15%. I lodge a tax return each January and as my total interest earned falls within the tax free income threshhold I receive a 100% refund of all tax paid.

[foreverlomsak]

2 hours ago, arithai12 said:

This way, I pay a ridiculously low income tax in Thailand, and as I am a tax resident here I don't need to pay any income tax in my home country -

Lucky you.

In the UK all income generated in the UK (including pensions - state and private) are taxed at source before you see it, and I have not found a way to become non-tax resident in the UK despite having no UK address for 18 years.

[scorecard]

19 hours ago, mfd101 said:

Ditto for me re the Australian authorities. (I also gave them a lecture on sending me important papers thru the snailmail to Thailand, instead of emailing. That made me feel better.)

Snailmail / e.mail not the point. 

Grow up.

 

C'link have said many times that they almost never use e.mail, because it's not secure. And they are correct, it's not secure. 

If you open your Mygov link thre's other means of communication. 

 

For what it's worth the Oz DVA is trying a new version of secure e.mail. If it works maybe (maybe) C'link and other gov't agencies will also use it. 

 

Do you have Mygov? Or are you in the brigade of 'They don't tell me what to do!'

Edited September 19, 2023 by scorecard

[mfd101]

4 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Snailmail / e.mail not the point. 

Grow up.

 

C'link have said many times that they almost never use e.mail, because it's not secure. And they are correct, it's not secure. 

If you open your Mygov link thre's other means of communication. 

 

Do you have Mygov? Or are you in the brigade of 'They don't tell me what to do!'

Yes I can & do use Mygov when I know there's something to check ...

[topt]

1 hour ago, foreverlomsak said:

Lucky you.

In the UK all income generated in the UK (including pensions - state and private) are taxed at source before you see it, and I have not found a way to become non-tax resident in the UK despite having no UK address for 18 years.

Yes I find the statement "being registered as non-resident for tax" in the UK slightly disingenuous as you still pay tax on most UK generated income.

 

The only way to avoid on a private pension would have been to move offshore in some way but that comes with it's own set of costs and issues.

 

The other issue is that in the DTA with Thailand both state and private pensions are not included (govt/civil service are) which in theory could lead to double taxation of said income.......

 

At least as a UK citizen you get to keep the PA if you want to.

[freeworld]

21 hours ago, fvw53 said:

I am 79, married to a Thai wife, retired with Non Immigrant O visa and 800,000 THB blocked in SCB Bank which is verified by the local Immigration Officer.

From time to time we transfer money to Thailand to cover our living expenses here.

Now the tax authorities of my own country (EU member state) want me for the year 2020 to obtain a "no income declaration" (otherwise declare any income made in Thailand).

Some people say I need to apply for a TIN (Taxpayer Identification Number) but I had never any contact with the local Tax Authorities :  they have no data about me.

I never made any money in Thailand : I am too old to work and as a retiree I would not obtain a work permit.

Did any of the Forum members have to face a similar situation and how did it work out for them?

 

Theoretically the 800000 in the bank is earning interest and any transfers to Thailand bank account any balances would also be earning some interest.

 

To have any dealings or trying to get documents and letters with the tax authorities one needs a tax number which should be obtained from revenue department.

[brianthainess]

20 hours ago, mfd101 said:

Ditto for me re the Australian authorities. (I also gave them a lecture on sending me important papers thru the snailmail to Thailand, instead of emailing. That made me feel better.)

I ignored my 3month old sopping wet letter when it arrived twice, then when I logged in-again up came a warning about this BS clicked on it and now I could just click a box yes or no, I can't even remember how I answered 

[Adumbration]

3 hours ago, mfd101 said:

That sounds very tempting. As an Australian 'not resident in Australia for tax purposes' I have 1/3 of my income confiscated each year by the Australian government.

 

If I could stop that and change to paying a nominal amount of income tax in Thailand, that would make a huge difference to our living standard here.

Are you trapped with your capital invested in the Australian residential property ponzi.

 

Income on interest is only taxed at 10% for non tax resident Australians.  There is no tax on fully franked dividends.

[Madgee]

1 hour ago, foreverlomsak said:

Lucky you.

In the UK all income generated in the UK (including pensions - state and private) are taxed at source before you see it, and I have not found a way to become non-tax resident in the UK despite having no UK address for 18 years.

UK state pension is not taxed at source as it is under the personal allowance but does go against any other income including private pensions.
Hence the tax you pay is on any income above the personal allowance including private pensions. This is normally deducted at source by your pension company.
How is my State Pension taxed? | MoneyHelper

[mfd101]

9 minutes ago, Adumbration said:

Are you trapped with your capital invested in the Australian residential property ponzi.

 

Income on interest is only taxed at 10% for non tax resident Australians.  There is no tax on fully franked dividends.

No to your question.

 

The point about no longer being an Oz 'resident for tax purposes' is that you lose your 1st $20K tax-free threshold. Which makes a real difference when the majority of your income comes from federal (CSS/CSC) superannuation + investments from retirement lump sum many many moons ago.

[Adumbration]

4 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

No to your question.

 

The point about no longer being an Oz 'resident for tax purposes' is that you lose your 1st $20K tax-free threshold. Which makes a real difference when the majority of your income comes from federal (CSS/CSC) superannuation + investments from retirement lump sum many many moons ago.

Tax free threshold is 18K6 AUD last time I checked.  10% of that is 1.8K  AUD and change.  Is you annual budget so tight that you can not survive on 1,860 dollars less?

[freeworld]

3 hours ago, koolkarl said:

Starting this year, Thailand is now part of the international income and asset reporting agreement.  Your assets and income from outside Thailand will be reported to Thai authorities yearly and visa versa. Thailand is finished.

Your assets and income inside Thailand will be reported to the Thai tax office who will automatically share that info with ones home country.

[Dickp]

Strange I don’t see any USA person on this subject. US and Thai government’s also single tax law if income is tax in one country the other one does not tax the income. US taxes my pension and 7/8 of my social security payments but not my VA disability income. For as long as I can remember the last 15 years the US government requires all Thai banks to report any money eared in Thailand to the IRS. That’s the reason it’s so hard for a US person to open a bank account in Thailand.

[foreverlomsak]

2 hours ago, Madgee said:

UK state pension is not taxed at source as it is under the personal allowance

For how much longer, as the personal allowance is locked at 12,750 GBP for another 5 years.

Even if the state pension goes above the PA I believe the collection of tax will still be made from  the private elements of your income.

[VBF]

5 hours ago, foreverlomsak said:

Lucky you.

In the UK all income generated in the UK (including pensions - state and private) are taxed at source before you see it, and I have not found a way to become non-tax resident in the UK despite having no UK address for 18 years.

Have you looked at this?

Tax on foreign income: UK residence and tax - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

Depending on your personal circumstances, it may help.