RCBO type B available?

[jim234]

All RCBO´s that I can find here in Thailand are type C. Are there no type B´s available here?

 

I thought type B is standard for residential use, type C for (big) machinery use. What is the reason why type C is commonly used here?

 

When using type C, do I need to cut the max cable lenght into half?

For example: 20A, type B max cable lenght approx. 90 meters

                       20A, type C max cable lenght approx. 45 meters

 

Any suggestions where to order RCBO´s, cables, etc.? or is lazada the way to go?

 

[sometimewoodworker]

7 hours ago, jim234 said:

All RCBO´s that I can find here in Thailand are type C. Are there no type B´s available here?

You can find type B units here but will have to go to a real electrical supply shop and order them. It is likely that few Thai electrical fitters know or understand the theory if which category is required and why.

 

7 hours ago, jim234 said:

 

I thought type B is standard for residential use, type C for (big) machinery use. What is the reason why type C is commonly used here?

Your understanding is incorrect, the correct type depends on the type of load and inrush current, so the type that should be used is often B for domestic but not always.

 

In short use the correct type for the correct load

7 hours ago, jim234 said:

When using type C, do I need to cut the max cable lenght into half?

For example: 20A, type B max cable lenght approx. 90 meters

                       20A, type C max cable lenght approx. 45 meters

That maybe correct, quite likely not and you are ignoring the cable size.

 

You need to have a suitable meter and knowledge of the equations and electrical theory and meter usage to understand the correct usage to be able to determine which load curve is correct for your installation.

 

7 hours ago, jim234 said:

Any suggestions where to order RCBO´s, cables, etc.? or is lazada the way to go?

A good electrical supply shop will either have everything required or be able to order it for you. They may even give advice if you know how to ask (probably you need to speak Thai)

 

for the calculations and some of (all of) the theory 

Calculating Maximum Zs Values for Circuit Breakers and Other Devices

 

 

 

Edited September 25, 2023 by sometimewoodworker

[MJCM]

 

Yes available online. Priced around 2k THB

 

Edit: looked at the store where I bought them from and they don't stock them any more.

 

A quick search brought this one up

 

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/etek-type-b-rcbo-10ka-3p-n-4p-40a-63a-30ma-ekl5-i4416315673-s17643642974.html

 

Edited September 25, 2023 by MJCM

[OneMoreFarang]

The official ABB shop on Lazada sells all RCBOs in Type AC:

https://www.lazada.co.th/acb-official-store/

 

[daveAustin]

Other way around in the UK... harder to get C at higher amperages. Most circuits should be on B, resistive rated. Typically, larger pumps, welders would behind C and then D rated or you get nuisance tripping on starting. Having a lighting circuit on a C rated MCB/RCBO, for example, is not necessary since there won't me much inrush on switch on.

[Crossy]

23 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

The official ABB shop on Lazada sells all RCBOs in Type AC:

https://www.lazada.co.th/acb-official-store/

 

 

Yeah, Type-AC are the lowest of the low, being phased out in several countries Aus being one IIRC @bluejets? Type-AC units can be "blinded" by pulsating DC which is a by-product of switching power supplies.

 

Type-A are recommended as a minimum now. Type-B for your EV.

 

Important Note - we are talking about RCD/RCBO types here https://www.electrical-installation.org/enwiki/Types_of_RCDs#: not MCB tripping curves which are related to start-up surge characteristics.

 

 

[jim234]

5 hours ago, Crossy said:

Yeah, Type-AC are the lowest of the low, being phased out in several countries Aus being one IIRC @bluejets? Type-AC units can be "blinded" by pulsating DC which is a by-product of switching power supplies.

 

Type-A are recommended as a minimum now. Type-B for your EV.

 

Important Note - we are talking about RCD/RCBO types here https://www.electrical-installation.org/enwiki/Types_of_RCDs#: not MCB tripping curves which are related to start-up surge characteristics.

 

seems like the commonly used RCBO´s here are type AC with C-curve. 

 

Type AC is prohibited in my home country, curve-C is only used for specific machinery with a high start-up surge. So it does confuse me why they seem to be the standard here.

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, jim234 said:

So it does confuse me why they seem to be the standard here.

The reason was given above 

7 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

It is likely that few Thai electrical fitters know or understand the theory if which category is required and why.

 

[jim234]

5 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

The reason was given above 

7 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

It is likely that few Thai electrical fitters know or understand the theory if which category is required and why.

I understand your point.

 

Just want to know what the safety hazards are by using RCBOs Type-AC with C-curve opposed to using RCBOs Type-A with B-curve. 

 

Or am I overthinking things by questioning the use of RCBOs type-AC with C-curve? 

 

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, jim234 said:

I understand your point.

 

Just want to know what the safety hazards are by using RCBOs Type-AC with C-curve opposed to using RCBOs Type-A with B-curve. 

 

Or am I overthinking things by questioning the use of RCBOs type-AC with C-curve? 

 

You need to ask someone who is qualified to answer.
I am not, but I do know enough to know what I don’t know.

[Crossy]

1 hour ago, jim234 said:

I understand your point.

 

Just want to know what the safety hazards are by using RCBOs Type-AC with C-curve opposed to using RCBOs Type-A with B-curve. 

 

Or am I overthinking things by questioning the use of RCBOs type-AC with C-curve? 

 

 

The C-curve only affects the magnetic switch-on surge protection, in reality no hazard.

 

The Type-AC RCBO section can be "blinded" by pulsating DC faults, since pretty well everything these days has switching power supplies these days you should really avoid Type-AC (although better than nothing) use Type-A if at all possible.

 

[jim234]

2 minutes ago, Crossy said:

The C-curve only affects the magnetic switch-on surge protection, in reality no hazard.

 

The Type-AC RCBO section can be "blinded" by pulsating DC faults, since pretty well everything these days has switching power supplies these days you should really avoid Type-AC (although better than nothing) use Type-A if at all possible.

Thank you!

 

So no need to worry about C-curves being used, that´s good to know.

 

I will search further for schneider Type-A RCBOs.

So far only found the Type-AC ones on lazada.

[OneMoreFarang]

1 minute ago, jim234 said:

Thank you!

 

So no need to worry about C-curves being used, that´s good to know.

 

I will search further for schneider Type-A RCBOs.

So far only found the Type-AC ones on lazada.

I am also interested where to buy them.

 

[OneMoreFarang]

I just found a video which explains the differences.

Summary: Don't use AC anymore. A is minimum what should be used, F and B are even better.

There are also symbols for these types.

 

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

On 9/25/2023 at 5:57 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

I am also interested where to buy them.

I found a supplier in Thailand for Type A and Type B.

เบรคเกอร์ MCB กันดูด (RCCB) ABB (pnbmart.com)

Good that they are available at all. But they are very expensive in Thailand.

[jim234]

6 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I found a supplier in Thailand for Type A and Type B.

เบรคเกอร์ MCB กันดูด (RCCB) ABB (pnbmart.com)

Good that they are available at all. But they are very expensive in Thailand.

Thanks for that! Expensive indeed. I still have some lying around here which I plan to use, but it is good to know that they are available there.

[xtrnuno41]

Red all, but there seems to be a confusion in devices?

The opp is talking about the characteristics of the fuses?

You have them in B and C, C switching off in higher range 10x In.

B switching 5 X In. In Asian countries mostly C fuses, western B.

However in Thaiwahtsadu, I bought B fuses (RCBO) with 30 mA differential switch.

 

And then things came up about the differential switch and their classes.

The GEYA GYL9 as shown in pic is ONLY a B type differential switch. NO fuse function add to it. Checked it. According to video it is the most complete differential switch up to 1 Khz and smooth DC, but again NO fuse. So that one would be right to use in solar panel installations, smooth DC, but can also be used in normal house hold.