Transgenderism 'a mental health disorder'

[johnnybangkok]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

Yes, as long as schools/the left (redundant) were allowed to promote transgenderism in secret, it was a complete non-subject. 

 

 

You are more than welcome to bury your head in the sand, stick your fingers in your ears and loudly shout lah, lah, lah BUT the adults in the room recognised the issue and started helping those that needed it.

There's no promoting transgenderism; all they are saying is it's ok to be trans.There is a difference.

[Yellowtail]

33 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

I was responding to you saying

 

"Yes, as long as schools/the left (redundant) were allowed to promote transgenderism in secret, it was a complete non-subject."

 

You do make me laugh 

 

I've already responded to johnnybangkok.

 

 

Yes, I saw that, but when you responded to johnny's claim that "I think the point being made is this is/was a complete non-subject until the GOP decided to make it political.",

 

your response was: 

 

I agree and it's a shame.

 

"By posting facts and knowledge I have gained through study, research and work experience, I have been branded a " trans promoter". Whatever that is." 

 

Apparently, you agreed it was not an issue when he said it. 

 

Carry on

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

You are more than welcome to bury your head in the sand, stick your fingers in your ears and loudly shout lah, lah, lah BUT the adults in the room recognised the issue and started helping those that needed it.

There's no promoting transgenderism; all they are saying is it's ok to be trans.

I'm sure they exist, but I do not know anyone that says it's not okay to be trans.

2 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

There is a difference.

Indeed, difference is, some have to resort to making things up. 

 

You want to pretend my position is something it is not. 

 

I have no issue with people being trans, my issue is with puberty blockers and reassignment surgeries for children. 

 

How about being honest? 

 

[Yellowtail]

16 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

What causes gender dysphoria may not be 'settled' but the condition itself is. Therefore you have a choice of either helping these people or stigmatising and treating them like outcasts. 

The whole thing reminds me of the battle the gay community had to endure for decades. Treated often with contempt and open hostility, they faught hard for their rights to the point where they can now get married and are seen (certainly by the more enlightened amongst us) as just normal people with a different sexual preference. They too didn't have a choice to be gay (I mean who in their right mind would choose being gay and all it's associated problems to being straight?) and I don't see any difference with the trans community.

You come across as one of the more reasoned debaters on this thread but this insistance that transgender is a choice and there are clinics and the likes exploiting confused children just doesn't ring true. There's nothing easy about choosing to be trans; it's a lifetime of being ostricized by family, friends and the general populace. It's hard to form meaningful relationships as well as establish a fruitful career. There's so many obstacles that no-one would willingly choose this path UNLESS they really, really thought they had no other choice for their own happiness and/or sanity.

All they want is to be treated like human beings and much like the gay community, accepted for who they are.

Is that really too much to ask?    

So to be clear, your position is that not providing puberty blockers and performing gender reassignment surgeries on children is the same as: "...stigmatising <sic> and treating them like outcasts."

 

Is that correct? 

 

[johnnybangkok]

4 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I'm sure they exist, but I do not know anyone that says it's not okay to be trans.

Indeed, difference is, some have to resort to making things up. 

 

You want to pretend my position is something it is not. 

 

I have no issue with people being trans, my issue is with puberty blockers and reassignment surgeries for children. 

 

How about being honest? 

 

Well you’ve met one now. I do think it’s ok to be trans (and gay and bisexual and other private choices) because, unlike you I don’t see they have a choice. 
And we’ve done the whole “but, but think about the children “ routine with you already. You’re not listening so no point in explaining it all again. 

[johnnybangkok]

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

So to be clear, your position is that not providing puberty blockers and performing gender reassignment surgeries on children is the same as: "...stigmatising <sic> and treating them like outcasts."

 

Is that correct? 

 

My position (not that you really care) is that denying a child medical help when they have a serious condition is akin to child torture. I see no difference to this treatment as to any other treatment a child must have whether their condition is of a physical or psychological nature. 
However, I also believe these decisions are best left in the hands of medical professionals who know a lot more than me and certainly a lot more than you. 

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

Well you’ve met one now. I do think it’s ok to be trans (and gay and bisexual and other private choices) because, unlike you I don’t see they have a choice. 
And we’ve done the whole “but, but think about the children “ routine with you already. You’re not listening so no point in explaining it all again. 

What I said was: I'm sure they exist, but I do not know anyone that says it's not okay to be trans.

 

And you claim I'm not listening. 

 

 

And we have not met. If we had actually met, we would likely be much more genial. 

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, johnnybangkok said:

My position (not that you really care) is that denying a child medical help when they have a serious condition is akin to child torture. I see no difference to this treatment as to any other treatment a child must have whether their condition is of a physical or psychological nature. 
However, I also believe these decisions are best left in the hands of medical professionals who know a lot more than me and certainly a lot more than you. 

Gender dysphoria is a medical condition that can be cured? 

[johnnybangkok]

24 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

What I said was: I'm sure they exist, but I do not know anyone that says it's not okay to be trans.

 

And you claim I'm not listening. 

 

 

And we have not met. If we had actually met, we would likely be much more genial. 

My apologies for the misread. But having read all of your other posts, you can probably understand why. 
And I don’t know why you don’t think I’m being genial. I’ve not been rude or unduly provocative. And being this sensitive yourself, you would have thought you would understand trans kids better. 
(ok that was a bit provocative but couldn’t help myself). 

Edited October 6, 2023 by johnnybangkok

[Yellowtail]

18 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

My apologies for the misread. But having read all of your other posts, you can probably understand why. 

No, I don't understand why. You really thought I do not know anyone that thinks it's okay to be trans?

 

I have never said anything that would indicate I do not think it's okay to be trans. 

 

18 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

 

And I don’t know why you don’t think I’m being genial. I’ve not been rude or unduly provocative.

"You are more than welcome to bury your head in the sand, stick your fingers in your ears and loudly shout lah, lah, lah BUT the adults in the room recognised the issue and started helping those that needed it."

 

18 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

 

And being this sensitive yourself, you would have thought you would understand trans kids better. 
(ok that was a bit provocative but couldn’t help myself). 

Why do you assume you understand trans kids better than I do? 

 

 

[impulse]

1 hour ago, johnnybangkok said:

What causes gender dysphoria may not be 'settled' but the condition itself is. Therefore you have a choice of either helping these people or stigmatising and treating them like outcasts. 

What, exactly, about the condition itself has been settled? 

 

Here's a study out of UCLA, showing that 0.5% of adults identify as trans, while 1.4% of US young people identify as trans.  Does that mean it works itself out for the majority of young people as they pass into adulthood?  Or does it mean that there's something going on that's drawing more kids into it?  Or more kids identifying transient, youthful feelings as "trans"? 

 

https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/subpopulations/transgender-people/

https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/trans-adults-united-states/

[Chomper Higgot]

18 minutes ago, impulse said:

What, exactly, about the condition itself has been settled? 

 

Here's a study out of UCLA, showing that 0.5% of adults identify as trans, while 1.4% of US young people identify as trans.  Does that mean it works itself out for the majority of young people as they pass into adulthood?  Or does it mean that there's something going on that's drawing more kids into it?  Or more kids identifying transient, youthful feelings as "trans"? 

 

https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/subpopulations/transgender-people/

https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/trans-adults-united-states/

Or does it mean that a proportion of trans adults were forced into denial by social mores during their lifetime?

 

 

Edited October 6, 2023 by Chomper Higgot

[Yellowtail]

12 minutes ago, impulse said:

What, exactly, about the condition itself has been settled? 

 

Here's a study out of UCLA, showing that 0.5% of adults identify as trans, while 1.4% of US young people identify as trans.  Does that mean it works itself out for the majority of young people as they pass into adulthood?  Or does it mean that there's something going on that's drawing more kids into it?  Or more kids identifying transient, youthful feelings as "trans"? 

 

https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/subpopulations/transgender-people/

https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/trans-adults-united-states/

It does not matter what it means, the only thing that matters is that these children get on puberty blockers and have reassignment surgery before they change their minds. 

 

Tattoo? Wait until you're 18

Drink? Wait until you're 18

Cigarette? Wait until you're 18

Puberty blockers? The sooner the better!

Cut your penis off? Sure, right this way! 

 

[impulse]

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

Or does it mean that a proportion of trans adults were forced into denial be social mores during their lifetime?

Good question.   But that would mean that it's not settled science, wouldn't it?

 

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, Yellowtail said:

It does not matter what it means, the only thing that matters is that these children get on puberty blockers and have reassignment surgery before they change their minds. 

 

Tattoo? Wait until you're 18

Drink? Wait until you're 18

Cigarette? Wait until you're 18

Puberty blockers? The sooner the better!

Cut your penis off? Sure, right this way! 

 

The hyperbole is upon you again brother.

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Or does it mean that a proportion of trans adults were forced into denial be social mores during their lifetime?

Their lives are not over, why would they not come out now? 

Edited October 6, 2023 by Yellowtail
sp

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, impulse said:

Good question.   But that would mean that it's not settled science, wouldn't it?

 

No it would not.

 

It would suggest, and this isn’t a a surprise, that people hide their personal feelings under influence of social pressures,

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Their lives are not over, why would they not come out now? 

Habit, fear induced by leading politicians stigmatizing Transgenderism as a mental health disorder.

 

Who knows? Feel free to do a survey.

 

Edited October 6, 2023 by Chomper Higgot

[impulse]

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

It does not matter what it means, the only thing that matters is that these children get on puberty blockers and have reassignment surgery before they change their minds. 

One of my concerns is the unintended consequence of sporting authorities banning trans woman who underwent male puberty.  3 that I recently read about, and more in discussion.  Seems like that forces kids to make that decision before puberty, which is pretty darned young. 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, impulse said:

One of my concerns is the unintended consequence of sporting authorities banning trans woman who underwent male puberty.  3 that I recently read about, and more in discussion.  Seems like that forces kids to make that decision before puberty, which is pretty darned young. 

 

Since you read about this you must have a link or a reference we can all refer to?

[Bkk Brian]

6 minutes ago, impulse said:

One of my concerns is the unintended consequence of sporting authorities banning trans woman who underwent male puberty.  3 that I recently read about, and more in discussion.  Seems like that forces kids to make that decision before puberty, which is pretty darned young. 

 

I thought puberty blockers were used primarily to pause puberty and buy transgender children and their caregivers time to consider their options? Ie so as not to go ahead with any surgery before puberty

Edited October 6, 2023 by Bkk Brian

[impulse]

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Since you read about this you must have a link or a reference we can all refer to?

World Aquatics banned transgender swimmers who had transitioned after the age of 12

 In July, the International Cycling Union barred cyclists who underwent male puberty from women’s events

The World Athletics Council enacted a similar rule in March, prohibiting athletes who had undergone male puberty from competing in women’s track and field events 

 

https://www.rt.com/news/584035-world-aquatics-trans-category-suspended/

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, impulse said:

World Aquatics banned transgender swimmers who had transitioned after the age of 12

 In July, the International Cycling Union barred cyclists who underwent male puberty from women’s events

The World Athletics Council enacted a similar rule in March, prohibiting athletes who had undergone male puberty from competing in women’s track and field events 

 

https://www.rt.com/news/584035-world-aquatics-trans-category-suspended/

RT.

Beyond my widest guesses, well almost beyond.

 

Remind me, the Russians, they are the people who were injecting athletes with hormones, or was it their chums the East Germans?!

[Baht Simpson]

6 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

I thought puberty blockers were used primarily to pause puberty and buy transgender children and their caregivers time to consider their options? Ie so as not to go ahead with any surgery.

Yes, and not just for transgender children but for medical and physiological issues like precocious puberty.  

[Thorgal]

12 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Since you read about this you must have a link or a reference we can all refer to?

There's Chloe Cole and so many more: You need more?

 

https://familyfirst.org.nz/2022/10/26/mcblog-listen-to-chloe-cole-18-before-any-gender-activist/

 

 

 

 

[impulse]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

RT.

Beyond my widest guesses, well almost beyond.

 

Remind me, the Russians, they are the people who were injecting athletes with hormones, or was it their chums the East Germans?!

Are they factually incorrect, or do you just object to reading more than one side of a story? 

 

I often disagree vehemently with RT's analysis, but they usually get their facts right.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

There's Chloe Cole and so many more: You need more?

 

https://familyfirst.org.nz/2022/10/26/mcblog-listen-to-chloe-cole-18-before-any-gender-activist/

 

 

 

 

Interesting but not related to my question.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, impulse said:

Are they factually incorrect, or do you just object to reading more than one side of a story? 

 

I often disagree vehemently with RT's analysis, but they usually get their facts right.

 

RT is a propaganda outlet

 

NOTHING it broadcasts can be relied upon.

 

 

[impulse]

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

RT is a propaganda outlet

 

NOTHING it broadcasts can be relied upon.

I'd say the same about CNN and MSNBC.  But I still go there for their facts.  Just not for the analysis.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, impulse said:

I'd say the same about CNN and MSNBC.  But I still go there for their facts.  Just not for the analysis.

 

CNN and MSNBC are not propaganda arms of any government.

 

The alignment of RT with Alt-Right Republican culture wars is with taking note of.