ISRAEL IS AT WAR !

[MrMojoRisin]

6 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Troll bait.

This is the second time you have sidestepped answering such a simple question.

No one is fooled.

[MrMojoRisin]

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Define Palestinian homeland.

Hamas wants Israel to not exist at all.

Your rhetoric sounds similar.

Hamas had the opportunity to make Gaza bloom into peace and prosperity if they had only agreed to live in peace and cooperation with Israel. Remember that Israel left Gaza long ago.

 

 

Extremist Palestinians want Israel not to exist at all.

Do extremist Israeli's want Palestine not to exist at all?

 

Israel was on the path to peace and then they murdered their own Prime Minister.

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

I support a 2 state solution based upon the 1967 green line.

 

Do you agree with your comrade that the world would spin very nicely without Hamas or Gaza?

 

Do you think such commentary is on par with the grossest forms of antisemitism?

 

Have you the courage to answer the above 2 questions?

I have the wisdom to ignore Hamas terrorist apologist troll baiting questions that are structured like -- when did you stop beating your wife? You keep playing this stupid game. 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Extremist Palestinians want Israel not to exist at all.

Do extremist Israeli's want Palestine not to exist at all?

 

Israel was on the path to peace and then they murdered their own Prime Minister.

Hamas is the government of Gaza.

There is nobody in power in Israel that wants to exterminate all the Arabs in Israel, Gaza, and the west bank.

Your attempt at two side-ism here is not grounded in morality or reality.

As far as why there aren't two states -- there is more than enough blame to go around starting with when the Arab world attacked in 1948 when Israel was founded.

[MrMojoRisin]

30 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Just watched John Kirby ( W H spokesman ) trying to waffle his way out of answering all the tough questions asked by Al Jazeera interviewer.

Just the usual "we support the israelis" and "israelis are the victims".

Complete waste of time asking him anything.

Almost feel sorry for the poor bastard...., one wrong word and his career is over and he's cancelled for life.

 

Must say: Israel is defending itself

Can't say: with state of the art weaponry in occupied territories populated by impoverished non combatants

Must say: Israel has a right to exist

Can't say: No such right for Palestine though

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Almost feel sorry for the poor bastard...., one wrong word and his career is over and he's cancelled for life.

 

Must say: Israel is defending itself

Can't say: with state of the art weaponry in occupied territories populated by impoverished non combatants

Must say: Israel has a right to exist

Can't say: No such right for Palestine though

Hamas occupies Gaza. 

[MrMojoRisin]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Hamas occupies Gaza. 

You're quite selective in the posts you respond to, this is a dead giveaway that your positions are not supported by facts (i.e. indefensible) and are basically garbage.

[Jingthing]

Just now, MrMojoRisin said:

You're quite selective in the posts you respond to, this is a dead giveaway that your positions are not supported by facts (i.e. indefensible) and are basically garbage.

I must have missed the memo about signing a contract with the forum that people are obligated to response to each and every TROLL BAIT post. 

[MrMojoRisin]

6 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I must have missed the memo about signing a contract with the forum that people are obligated to response to each and every TROLL BAIT post. 

You are absolutely not obligated to respond to anything you choose not to.

What one chooses or chooses not to respond to though paints a very clear picture.

Not saying anything often says a lot.

There is a very obvious reason why you avoid certain facts and topics - remaining silent sends a very loud and very clear message to that end.

Edited October 10, 2023 by MrMojoRisin

[ExpatOilWorker]

A little celebration never hurts anyone. ....... oh well.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, MrMojoRisin said:

You are absolutely not obligated to respond to anything you choose not to.

What one chooses or chooses not to respond to though paints a very clear picture.

Not saying anything often says a lot.

There is a very obvious reason why you avoid certain facts and topics - remaining silent sends a very load and very clear message to that end.

Says you. I don't appreciate being stalked and baiting as you persist in doing. 

[MrMojoRisin]

19 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I have the wisdom to ignore Hamas terrorist apologist troll baiting questions that are structured like -- when did you stop beating your wife? You keep playing this stupid game. 

Once again you are avoiding very simple questions.

 

You began in this thread with post after post accusing people of antisemitism yet here you are avoiding condemning the exact same sort of rhetoric aimed at Palestinians.

 

BTW - the analogy would be "Do you think it's wrong for people to beat their wife".

Why would any decent person avoid answering such a question?

[MrMojoRisin]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Says you. I don't appreciate being stalked and baiting as you persist in doing. 

Trolling, baiting, stalking...let the moderators moderate.

 

The fact is you have lost the argument and now you have gone ad hominem and are attempting to have the moderators come in and rescue you.

 

If you are unhappy, stop replying and use the ignore button.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Trolling, baiting, stalking...let the moderators moderate.

 

The fact is you have lost the argument and now you have gone ad hominem and are attempting to have the moderators come in and rescue you.

 

If you are unhappy, stop replying and use the ignore button.

You're a real piece of work.

So it's me who has gone ad hominem?

Hilarious. 

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Once again you are avoiding very simple questions.

 

You began in this thread with post after post accusing people of antisemitism yet here you are avoiding condemning the exact same sort of rhetoric aimed at Palestinians.

 

BTW - the analogy would be "Do you think it's wrong for people to beat their wife".

Why would any decent person avoid answering such a question?

You are obviously too dense to get the When did you stop beating your wife reference. Sad.

[Yagoda]

31 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

And to some the utter destruction of urban areas, knowingly slaughtering untold numbers of non combatants is acceptable as long as the victims are from a different religion or have a different skin colour.

 

It's quite amusing, all of those here who have leapt at every imagined opportunity to accuse others of antisemitism in this thread have nothing to say when posts such as yours appear.

 

Would the world would spin very nicely without Israeli's or Israel?

We did it to the Japanese and Germans and I have no problem for the Izzys doing it to Gaza. We flattened Leipzig and Tokyo and the Germans learned their lesson. 

 

And no, the world would hitch indeed without those arrogant Izzies.  Our military wouldnt be happy, nor would global science and medicine. And whos gonna turn Saudi Arabia into the Country of the Future? The Gazans?

 

After Gaza gets flattened, turn to Iran. Bet Aliyev's Israeli advisors are happily pointing out the new borders of Azerbaijan, where gals dont need hijabs and you can buy beer.

 

Personally, I get a kick out of how worked up folks get over Israel and the Joooos. Its an obsession.

 

 

[MrMojoRisin]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You are obviously too dense to get the When did you stop beating your wife reference. Sad.

Back to the topic at hand....

 

Do you agree with your comrade that the world would spin very nicely without Hamas or Gaza?

 

Do you think such commentary is on par with the grossest forms of antisemitism?

 

Have you the courage to answer the above 2 questions?

[MrMojoRisin]

2 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

We did it to the Japanese and Germans and I have no problem for the Izzys doing it to Gaza. We flattened Leipzig and Tokyo and the Germans learned their lesson. 

 

And no, the world would hitch indeed without those arrogant Izzies.  Our military wouldnt be happy, nor would global science and medicine. And whos gonna turn Saudi Arabia into the Country of the Future? The Gazans?

 

After Gaza gets flattened, turn to Iran. Bet Aliyev's Israeli advisors are happily pointing out the new borders of Azerbaijan, where gals dont need hijabs and you can buy beer.

 

Personally, I get a kick out of how worked up folks get over Israel and the Joooos. Its an obsession.

 

 

????‍♂️

[Yagoda]

1 minute ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Back to the topic at hand....

 

Do you agree with your comrade that the world would spin very nicely without Hamas or Gaza?

 

Do you think such commentary is on par with the grossest forms of antisemitism?

 

Have you the courage to answer the above 2 questions?

Have you to courage to admit that one has nothing to do with the other. Are you saying the world needs Hamas? Are you saying that opposing Hamas is bad?  Are you one of the dudes jumping around and cheering videos of beheaded babies?

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Back to the topic at hand....

 

Do you agree with your comrade that the world would spin very nicely without Hamas or Gaza?

 

Do you think such commentary is on par with the grossest forms of antisemitism?

 

Have you the courage to answer the above 2 questions?

My comrade? Just stop the troll baiting and move on. 

[Yagoda]

1 minute ago, MrMojoRisin said:

????‍♂️

Guess I won. 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Yagoda said:

Have you to courage to admit that one has nothing to do with the other. Are you saying the world needs Hamas? Are you saying that opposing Hamas is bad?  Are you one of the dudes jumping around and cheering videos of beheaded babies?

He certainly comes off at the very least adjacent to that. 

[MrMojoRisin]

Just now, Yagoda said:

Guess I won. 

You sure did.

I am pretty quick to pick up when I'm up against an intellectual titan and I simply throw in the towel ASAP.

Congrats champ, continue to spread your wisdom.

[Yagoda]

6 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

You sure did.

I am pretty quick to pick up when I'm up against an intellectual titan and I simply throw in the towel ASAP.

Congrats champ, continue to spread your wisdom.

No problem. Very sportsmanlike of you to acknowledge your defeat and I appreciate the compliment. 

 

So perhaps now we can discuss the future after Hamas is gone. Im sort of a modified Marshall plan dude myself. The Izzies will break it, so they need to fix it.. Feel free to contibute any ideas you have even if you feel they are intellectually insufficient.

Edited October 10, 2023 by Yagoda

[Jingthing]

Just now, Yagoda said:

No problem. Very sportsmanlike of you to acknowledge your defeat and I appreciate the compliment. 

 

So perhaps now we can discuss the future after Hamas is gone. Im sort of a modified Marshall plan dude myself. Feel free to contibute any ideas you have even if you feel they are intellectually insufficient.

Well first Israel needs to succeed in wiping out Hamas. That's not going to be quick or easy and it's hard to imagine how many of the hostages will survive either.

Assuming they do succeed, then yes, there might at least be the hope and chance for Gaza to do some kind of much more positive rebirth. As I said before Hamas occupies Gaza. After they don't -- that could really be the much more challenging aspect of this war.

[MrMojoRisin]

4 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

Have you to courage to admit that one has nothing to do with the other. Are you saying the world needs Hamas? Are you saying that opposing Hamas is bad?  Are you one of the dudes jumping around and cheering videos of beheaded babies?

1. No, one has everything to do with the other, this is the very crux of the issue. The only way to defend Israel's crimes is by applying a double standard.

 

2. The world doesn't need Hamas, the situation in the middle east has created an environment that enables Hamas to flourish. Get rid of Hamas and it will only result in a Hamas clone taking its place. The problem needs to be resolved at it's source - the Israeli occupation of Palestine.

 

3. Opposing Hamas is the correct thing to do, it is the ethical thing to do. Ignoring the fact that the cause of Hamas's existence is the Israeli occupation of Palestine only ensures that the conflict (and the inevitable subsequent atrocities from both sides) will continue unabated.

 

4. No, I don't cheer any deaths, whether they be Israeli babies that have been beheaded, festival goers who have been shot point blank, Israeli soldiers dying whilst performing their jobs, Palestinian grandmothers and infants who have perished in residential buildings flattened by laser guided missiles, Palestinian youths shot dead by Israeli soldiers for throwing rocks, Palestinians needlessly dying through lack of proper medical attention caused by Israeli blockades, etc. etc.

[MrMojoRisin]

15 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

My comrade? Just stop the troll baiting and move on. 

Let the moderators moderate.

[Yagoda]

4 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

 

 

4. No, I don't cheer any deaths, whether they be Israeli babies that have been beheaded, festival goers who have been shot point blank, Israeli soldiers dying whilst performing their jobs, Palestinian grandmothers and infants who have perished in residential buildings flattened by laser guided missiles, Palestinian youths shot dead by Israeli soldiers for throwing rocks, Palestinians needlessly dying through lack of proper medical attention caused by Israeli blockades, etc. etc.

Any person dumb enough to throw rocks at armed soldiers...well..Darwin. 

 

I feel bad for Abdul's Nona, too bad Hamas killed her by putting their missles in the apartment across the hall.

 

Bet the folks in Gaza will be glad when Hamas is gone.

 

Keep trying though.

[herfiehandbag]

1 hour ago, MrMojoRisin said:

There are two clearly defined camps here:

 

1. Those who condemn violence and atrocities committed by both sides that honestly apply the same standards to both sides and base their commentary on facts

 

2. Those that only condemn Palestinian violence and atrocities explicitly applying a double standard by not only blindly excusing Israeli crimes and atrocities, but having the temerity to blame Israeli crimes and atrocities on Palestinians.

 

The fact that there is no third group who blindly support Palestinians tells me that all of the rational, sane, decent, empathetic, educated, civilised and humane people are exclusively located amongst the first group.

 

The rampant tears and tantrums by those firmly ensconced in the second group every time someone utters anything even slightly critical of Israel, the gutless, weak and intellectually dishonest hurling of accusations of antisemitism when the truth is spoken stands in stark contrast to the utterly disgusting slurs in this threads aimed at Palestinians. Go back and read what has been written by some here and you will see that the worst filth, the biggest lies, the most disgusting and vile dehumanising cheerleading is all coming from just one side.

 

 

You oversimplify. By suggesting that there are can only be two camps, by arbitrarily allocating participants in this debate in this forum to one of those camps, you are effectively trying to close down the debate.

 

I see myself in neither camp. I have taken part in neither the "worst filth, the biggest lies, the most disgusting and vile dehumanising cheerleading", nor have I expressed anti Semitism.

 

These most recent events, the attacks by Hamas are appalling atrocities, which frankly will not advance the cause of the Palastinian people one bit. Rather they will serve to load even more ills upon the people of Gaza, a people oppressed by Hamas and who, if we assume Hamas were elected for a 4 year term, have been denied any opportunity to express a view on the regime they live under for at least 12 years. Hamas can not but have been fully aware of the reaction they would provoke. They launched a raid, in and out, accompanied by a rocket barrage. a killing and hostage taking spree. Once the Israelis recovered their footing after the initial surprise they knew that the incursion would be rapidly defeated, and they knew the reaction it would provoke. They didn't care, perhaps they welcome it.

 

Israel's position is more nuanced. First it is a democracy. The present government faces strong opposition, and is by no means guaranteed to survive. There are many voices which oppose it as exemplified by the interview with the Deputy Mayor of Jerusalem earlier in this thread. Because it is a democracy, and had been since it's founding, that shapes it's long term path. So, for. example, the occupation of the West Bank and the Golan Heights were political decisions, taken by a democracy, as measures of political expediency. Yes it was over 5 decades ago, yes things have changed, but you cannot decouple the present realities from history. 

 

If you deny Israel has a right to exist ( I don't), what then to do with it's 9 million Jews? Hamas, with its creed of "from the river to the sea" has a simple solution, exterminate them. There may be, are, more moderate compromising schools among the Palestinians. They are ruthlessly surprised.

 

Returning to present. Air bombardment is a crude tool. For all the air mens boasts of precision bombing it causes a lot of what is casually dismissed as collateral damage, a particularly callous term. Yet Israel is right to aim for the destruction of Hamas, and in particular it's military capacity and infrastructure. How to do that? Air bombardment is today the only tool available, it should be used sparingly. In the near future we may see a land invasion, but of course that faces the same problem, Hamas hides behind the civilian population.

 

Complex isn't it. Returning to your two camps analogy - " my way or the highway" and the comments you made are grossly unfair to those who consider, ponder and try and find solutions, framed by the prism of decency and humanity, in what is possibly the most intractable problems of our time.

 

Dawn is breaking, the village headman is haranguing us through his loudspeakers ( now there is a candidate for a "surgical air strike") and another long night of insomnia is over. That's why I am so grouchy - still the dogs are sleeping soundly!

???? ZZZ

 

Edited October 10, 2023 by herfiehandbag

[Bkk Brian]

Some more first hand reports from the massacres carried out by Hamas

 

‘It’s Not a War or a Battlefield. It’s a Massacre.’

Nobody could say how many of them were lying here, in Kfar Azza, but it is emerging as one of the worst sites of the bloodshed. Soldiers and rescue workers said scores, possibly hundreds, had been slaughtered here, including grandparents, infants and children.

“It’s not a war or a battlefield; it’s a massacre,” said Maj. Gen. Itai Veruv, an Israeli commander on the scene. “It’s something I never saw in my life, something more like a pogrom from our grandparents’ time.”

At least a dozen corpses were strewn along the pathways and on lawns gathering flies, some of them of Hamas fighters, others of Israelis loosely covered with blankets. The smell of death was in the air.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/10/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-kibbutz-kfar-azza.html

 

Inside Kfar Aza where Hamas militants killed families in their homes

Mr Ben Zion said Hamas gunmen who killed families, including babies, were "just a jihad machine to kill everybody, [people] without weapons, without nothing, just normal citizens that want to take their breakfast and that's all."

Some of the victims, he said, were decapitated.

"They killed them and cut some of their heads, it's a dreadful thing to see… and we must remember who is the enemy, and what our mission is, [for] justice where there is a right side and all the world needs to be behind us."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67065205