2 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Well of course they will prevail, the mismatch between them and the Palestinians is enormous.

 

Slaughtering fish in a barrel is nothing to be proud of.

Hamas seems pretty proud of the attack on Israel. Lot of Gazans celebrating. Same in the West Bank.

45 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

Image and information  from "The Times" Center is Rut Perez who has muscular dystrophy, she is unable to walk or talk and is entirely reliant on her family to feed her through a tube …. She was abducted by the terrorists of the Palestinian Government, and was taken to Gaza.

 

It is difficult for any normal human being to imagine that another human being on this planet could be so devoid of any humanity as to carry out an act of such extreme cruelty.

 

No doubt one of the Hamas apologists on here will justify this cruelty with some form of whataboutery.

A pity you don't see the difference between explaining and apologizing.

But what else to expect from someone who sees all criticism of Israel as anti-Semitism.

9 minutes ago, stevenl said:

A pity you don't see the difference between explaining and apologizing

Thanks for your reply; so as an explainer, rather than an apologist, would you be kind enough to explain to me the justification for abducting a disabled girl that needs her family to feed her through a tube in order to live. I will be happy to read your explanation, and hope to learn something from it … thanks again

8 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

WTF are you talking about? Nobody believes that anymore.

Sarcasm

7 minutes ago, stevenl said:

A pity you don't see the difference between explaining and apologizing.

But what else to expect from someone who sees all criticism of Israel as anti-Semitism.

That just just nonsense , Anti Semitism is regarded as Anti Semitism and Criticism of Israel is accepted .

   Quite a few posters keep making anti Semitic remarks without realising what they are doing , but they are often old, old fashioned guys who just cannot change their ways as they were bought up when anti-Semitism/racism/Homophobia was quite normal

5 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

That just just nonsense , Anti Semitism is regarded as Anti Semitism and Criticism of Israel is accepted .

   Quite a few posters keep making anti Semitic remarks without realising what they are doing , but they are often old, old fashioned guys who just cannot change their ways as they were bought up when anti-Semitism/racism/Homophobia was quite normal

Yes, anti-Semitic remarks are being made. But also genuine criticism of Israel is being put down as anti-Semitism.

12 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

Thanks for your reply; so as an explainer, rather than an apologist, would you be kind enough to explain to me the justification for abducting a disabled girl that needs her family to feed her through a tube in order to live. I will be happy to read your explanation, and hope to learn something from it … thanks again

And again similar tripe from you. 'explain a justification '. I said nor implied anything of the kind.

2 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Yes, anti-Semitic remarks are being made. But also genuine criticism of Israel is being put down as anti-Semitism.

Can you give some examples ?

("Israel are Nazis" is anti sematic and comparing Israel to Nazis isn't criticism of Israel)

10 hours ago, Morch said:

I feel that you should supply a link.

Use of white phosphorus is not totally banned, though. Can't directly bomb people with it, but as smoke screen and other uses, it's another matter.

Yes.

Smoke is used in battle, and in manoeuvring in sight of an enemy (as the IDF is doing on the borders of Gaza) to screen your own forces or blind the enemy. There are two types: base ejection in which a series of small smoke cannisters are ejected from the base of an artillery shell, to fall in a line across the battlefield, creating the "linear smokescreen" to hinder observation and hide your movement. BE smoke takes time to lay, but is (relatively) long lasting. Because the rounds use a mechanical time fuze (clockwork) they are expensive, usually in limited supply, and the gunnery procedures needed to create a screen are complex.

 

If a quick smokescreen is required, to cover a rapid move across open ground, then white phosphorus is used, bursting on impact with the ground and creating a rapid but quickly dispersing effect. It is usually delivered by light artillery ( I don't think that Israel use that) mortars or hand grenades.

it is not a particularly effective anti personnel weapon, and of little use against dug in troops ( bunkers) or buildings. It is a tool for covering movement. If it is used against personnel or buildings then it is against the law of armed conflict, 

 

If it has been used then it will have been used for covering movement at close quarters.

 

Claims that Israel have used it are dramatic, but all armies use it. It is important to understand why and how it is used.

 

If Hamas have planned and prepared for urban fighting then they may well have and in due course use it themselves, to cover movement - then again they may rely on standing on the street corner and spraying the presumed area of the enemy with AK fire on automatic whilst their mates run across the street - the "Beirut unload". Dispassionate observation of the available videos does show that their training, in some cases anyway, has progressed beyond that.

1 hour ago, Morch said:

Hamas seems pretty proud of the attack on Israel. Lot of Gazans celebrating. Same in the West Bank.

Is this the standard from which you draw your morals.

Terrorists?

What is the point you are trying to make, as long as Israel's crimes are not quite as bad as those of Hamas then that's perfectly acceptable?

Are you supporting the notion that two wrongs make a right?

25 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Yes, anti-Semitic remarks are being made. But also genuine criticism of Israel is being put down as anti-Semitism.

It's impossibel to have a conversation with these people. I can understand to a certain degree why they are so sensitive but it's really ridicuos when Israel have done and do no wrong.

They obviosuly can't make valid points, so best to ignore them. That poster even had the nerve to call me antisemitic, which is absurd if you knew me.

2 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Is this the standard from which you draw your morals.

Terrorists?

What is the point you are trying to make, as long as Israel's crimes are not quite as bad as those of Hamas then that's perfectly acceptable?

Are you supporting the notion that two wrongs make a right?

????

How responsible is Netanyahu for recent events?

 

"Indeed, Netanyahu himself had effectively admitted as much a couple of months before Distel Atbaryan made her comments, when he declared in a Likud meeting that “anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state needs to support strengthening Hamas."

 

https://responsiblestatecraft.org/benjamin-netanyahu-israel/#:~:text=Indeed%2C Netanyahu himself had effectively,needs to support strengthening Hamas.

 

"The premier’s policy of treating the terror group as a partner, at the expense of Abbas and Palestinian statehood, has resulted in wounds that will take Israel years to heal from"

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

 

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-11/ty-article/.premium/netanyahu-needed-a-strong-hamas/0000018b-1e9f-d47b-a7fb-bfdfd8f30000

10 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

It's impossibel to have a conversation with these people. I can understand to a certain degree why they are so sensitive but it's really ridicuos when Israel have done and do no wrong.

 

No one is saying that though , no one is saying that Israel can do no wrong and no one is saying people are anti sematic for criticising Israel .

   That is all just in your imagination and its not based on peoples posts

44 minutes ago, stevenl said:

And again similar tripe from you. 'explain a justification '. I said nor implied anything of the kind.

 

My post that you replied to was about the abduction by Hamas of a disabled Israeli girl that needs to be tube fed in order to live.

 

You made no comment whatsoever about my post that you were replying to, nor made any condemnation of that heinous act, you simply accused me of not being able to differentiate between explaining and apologising. I offered you the opportunity to explain why Hamas carried out this cruel abduction and you reply with more obfuscation.

 

Your silence about this appallingly cruel act speaks many volumes about your attitude towards Hamas, and unless you can offer any explanation, then you make yourself look very much like an apologist …. thanks

20 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Is this the standard from which you draw your morals.

Terrorists?

What is the point you are trying to make, as long as Israel's crimes are not quite as bad as those of Hamas then that's perfectly acceptable?

Are you supporting the notion that two wrongs make a right?

I'm making a point that many comments on here demand Israel behave in an angelic, unrealistic manner. While at the same time minimizing Hamas's actions and conduct. It's not enough to merely label them as 'terrorists' and say oh well.

 

Nothing was said by myself about Israel actions being 'perfectly acceptable''. I acknowledged that they are not, both with regard to the historical backdrop, and previous iterations vs. Hamas even. With regard to the current situation, I said that it's uncharted territory, and that I expect reaction will be off the scale. It might not be pretty, nice, or even 'legal', but it will happen nevertheless. I can understand that, and to a degree, accept it.

 

I support the notion of not putting up bogus loaded questions.

22 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

How responsible is Netanyahu for recent events?

 

"Indeed, Netanyahu himself had effectively admitted as much a couple of months before Distel Atbaryan made her comments, when he declared in a Likud meeting that “anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state needs to support strengthening Hamas."

 

https://responsiblestatecraft.org/benjamin-netanyahu-israel/#:~:text=Indeed%2C Netanyahu himself had effectively,needs to support strengthening Hamas.

 

"The premier’s policy of treating the terror group as a partner, at the expense of Abbas and Palestinian statehood, has resulted in wounds that will take Israel years to heal from"

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

 

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-11/ty-article/.premium/netanyahu-needed-a-strong-hamas/0000018b-1e9f-d47b-a7fb-bfdfd8f30000

He is most certainly responsible for bad policy, bad decision making, and for the political divides in Israel. Hopefully, this would spell the end of his political career and more. But that's something for the Israelis to contend with after the war.

 

At least Israelis are resisting their bad leadership - something which cannot be said much about the Palestinians. Quite interesting how often people go on, in detail, about Netanyahu, and seem relatively clueless when it comes to Palestinian leadership.

29 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Is this the standard from which you draw your morals.Terrorists?

What is the point you are trying to make, as long as Israel's crimes are not quite as bad as those of Hamas then that's perfectly acceptable?

Are you supporting the notion that two wrongs make a right?

Hamas, in and of itself, beyond all consideration, is utterly wrong. ⚫ <== period.

 

Would you like to discuss anything else?

 

1 hour ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

My post that you replied to was about the abduction by Hamas of a disabled Israeli girl that needs to be tube fed in order to live.

 

You made no comment whatsoever about my post that you were replying to, nor made any condemnation of that heinous act, you simply accused me of not being able to differentiate between explaining and apologising. I offered you the opportunity to explain why Hamas carried out this cruel abduction and you reply with more obfuscation.

 

Your silence about this appallingly cruel act speaks many volumes about your attitude towards Hamas, and unless you can offer any explanation, then you make yourself look very much like an apologist …. thanks

I'll leave you to your twisted opinion.

Hamas self-implicating political leadership....

 

Hamas official: Non-military leaders ‘surprised by date, not by actions’ of shock onslaught

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/hamas-official-non-military-leaders-surprised-by-date-not-by-actions-of-shock-onslaught/

 

Out goes 'it's-only-the-militants', 'only the military wing'....

A post requiring a subscription to read has been removed also a reply pointing this out

 

Just reported on the  BBC news website that the Israeli army have recovered an as yet undisclosed number of bodies of Israelis that were abducted by Hamas, in a ground raid into Gaza.

 

The bodies have been taken back to Israel and an update will follow.

 

An IDF spokesman said they are doing everything they can to minimise civilian casualties in Gaza as they seek to free more than 120 Israelis still held hostage.

 

He said many Palestinians had listen to their warnings and were leaving the area, but he said it was “extremely sad and worrying” to see Hamas trying to stop Palestinian civilians from evacuating the area.

A social media clip has been removed, please see our Community Standards

29 minutes ago, Morch said:

Hamas self-implicating political leadership....

 

Hamas official: Non-military leaders ‘surprised by date, not by actions’ of shock onslaught

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/hamas-official-non-military-leaders-surprised-by-date-not-by-actions-of-shock-onslaught/

 

Out goes 'it's-only-the-militants', 'only the military wing'....

A  chilling read ….. from the article, the words of Abu Marzouk, of the Hamas political bureau:

 

Of the hostages, he says, “the innocent people who were imprisoned, we will not keep them,” and adds that “it’s too early to talk about swaps” between captured Israeli soldiers and Palestinian security prisoners in Israeli jails.

 

Well, the IDF have just announced finding the bodies of some of them in a ground raid into Gaza; so talking of prisoner exchanges is rather futile on his part.

14 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

The death toll of this decades old conflict is in excess of 10 to 1.

That is more than 10 Palestinians dead for each Israeli.

 

The current situation - as of right now 447 Palestinian babies have been killed by Israeli bombs dropped in the last few days.

 

What sort of human being can express grief and sympathy for one group of babies but discount another as mere collateral damage simply because of their birth place, religion or skin colour.

 

Such people are worse than the Hamas terrorists.

Hamas knew the consequences of their terror attack on Israel. Blame them, not Israel.

It appears that any nation, organization, or entity that opposes Israel is often swiftly labeled as terrorist groups. In this forum too, anyone criticizing Israel’s inhumane actions in Gaza is swiftly accused of being Jews hater, anti-Semite and the rest of ready labels.

 

The founding of Israel itself involved various Jewish organizations, including Haganah, Lohamey Heruth Israel (Stern Gang), and Irgun Zvai Leumi, which was led by Menachem Begin, later becoming the Prime Minister of Israel.

 

These organizations were associated with tragic events such as the Deir Yassin and Kufur Qasim massacres. Additionally, they were responsible for the assassination of Folke Bernadotte, a Swedish diplomat who was unanimously appointed as the United Nations Security Council mediator during the 1947-1948 Arab-Israeli conflict. Bernadotte was assassinated in Jerusalem in 1948 by the paramilitary Zionist group Lehi while carrying out his official duties.

 

To this day, Israel has continued to employ terrorist measures including extrajudicial assassination, confiscation of land, collective punishment and bombings. Just yesterday, they issued a notice for 1.1 million people in Gaza to relocate within 24 hours or risk facing airstrikes. They might just as well march 1.1 civilians into a new concentration camp complete with gas champers.

A group of Hamas fighters, numbering in the hundreds, managed to humiliate the Israeli army, its intelligence agencies and brought the entire country on its knees. In retaliation, they have been targeting civilians in a pure act of vengeance and to restore their shattered image and to justify getting billions in military aid from USA.

 

While Israel, with the support of the United States and other major powers, may potentially eliminate Hamas, the question remains: will they ever succeed in quashing the aspirations of millions of Palestinians for their own state and ending the ongoing Israeli occupation?

 

Quote

A doxxing truck has been driving around the campus of Harvard University with the names and pictures of the students who allegedly wrote an open letter squarely blaming Israel for the recent escalation in the region.

  https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/us/truck-at-harvard-university-campus-reveals-names-photos-of-students-who-wrote-controversial-israel-letter/articleshow/104380544.cms?from=mdr

I love the truck! Long live the truck!

3 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

It appears that any nation, organization, or entity that opposes Israel is often swiftly labeled as terrorist groups. In this forum too, anyone criticizing Israel’s inhumane actions in Gaza is swiftly accused of being Jews hater, anti-Semite and the rest of ready labels.

 

The founding of Israel itself involved various Jewish organizations, including Haganah, Lohamey Heruth Israel (Stern Gang), and Irgun Zvai Leumi, which was led by Menachem Begin, later becoming the Prime Minister of Israel.

 

These organizations were associated with tragic events such as the Deir Yassin and Kufur Qasim massacres. Additionally, they were responsible for the assassination of Folke Bernadotte, a Swedish diplomat who was unanimously appointed as the United Nations Security Council mediator during the 1947-1948 Arab-Israeli conflict. Bernadotte was assassinated in Jerusalem in 1948 by the paramilitary Zionist group Lehi while carrying out his official duties.

 

To this day, Israel has continued to employ terrorist measures including extrajudicial assassination, confiscation of land, collective punishment and bombings. Just yesterday, they issued a notice for 1.1 million people in Gaza to relocate within 24 hours or risk facing airstrikes. They might just as well march 1.1 civilians into a new concentration camp complete with gas champers.

A group of Hamas fighters, numbering in the hundreds, managed to humiliate the Israeli army, its intelligence agencies and brought the entire country on its knees. In retaliation, they have been targeting civilians in a pure act of vengeance and to restore their shattered image and to justify getting billions in military aid from USA.

 

While Israel, with the support of the United States and other major powers, may potentially eliminate Hamas, the question remains: will they ever succeed in quashing the aspirations of millions of Palestinians for their own state and ending the ongoing Israeli occupation?

 

The Hamas aspiration is not a Palestinian state. Their aspiration is a Caliphate and to exterminate the Jews and to end Israel.

5 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Real Americans couldn’t find Israel on a map.

 

If the Utahan was trans, half of American would be cheering on Hamas.

What are you on about?

That trans comment was bizarre.

25 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

It appears that any nation, organization, or entity that opposes Israel is often swiftly labeled as terrorist groups. In this forum too, anyone criticizing Israel’s inhumane actions in Gaza is swiftly accused of being Jews hater, anti-Semite and the rest of ready labels.

 

The founding of Israel itself involved various Jewish organizations, including Haganah, Lohamey Heruth Israel (Stern Gang), and Irgun Zvai Leumi, which was led by Menachem Begin, later becoming the Prime Minister of Israel.

 

These organizations were associated with tragic events such as the Deir Yassin and Kufur Qasim massacres. Additionally, they were responsible for the assassination of Folke Bernadotte, a Swedish diplomat who was unanimously appointed as the United Nations Security Council mediator during the 1947-1948 Arab-Israeli conflict. Bernadotte was assassinated in Jerusalem in 1948 by the paramilitary Zionist group Lehi while carrying out his official duties.

 

To this day, Israel has continued to employ terrorist measures including extrajudicial assassination, confiscation of land, collective punishment and bombings. Just yesterday, they issued a notice for 1.1 million people in Gaza to relocate within 24 hours or risk facing airstrikes. They might just as well march 1.1 civilians into a new concentration camp complete with gas champers.

A group of Hamas fighters, numbering in the hundreds, managed to humiliate the Israeli army, its intelligence agencies and brought the entire country on its knees. In retaliation, they have been targeting civilians in a pure act of vengeance and to restore their shattered image and to justify getting billions in military aid from USA.

 

While Israel, with the support of the United States and other major powers, may potentially eliminate Hamas, the question remains: will they ever succeed in quashing the aspirations of millions of Palestinians for their own state and ending the ongoing Israeli occupation?

 

Everybody makes the Palestinian issue more complex by conflating Gaza with the West Bank.

 

Gaza has no issues with Israeli settlers stealing their land.

 

The big issue for Gaza is Hamas, which focuses on destroying Israel via rocket launches and terror attacks, rather than improving the lives of Gazans. If Hamas were eliminated, the Gazans would live better.

 

However, the West Bank is another issue. How to resolve the West Bank issue?

 

I got nuttin.