Changes To Retirement Visas Heralded

[longball53098]

The topic title here is taken from the headline of an article on the front-page of the most recent issue of the Pattaya Today newspaper date Volume 6, Issue 21 16-31 July 2007

I post this to generate some discussions about this to see if anyone else has seen this article or one like it. Forgive me for any typing errors as I am the hunt and peck typist and I believe I have quoted the article in it's entirety.

I fall into the area of using the letter and partial money in the bank. I am an American over 60 with a full pension and this year I will be renewing for the second time. I just received a new letter from the US Embassy last month so I will easily be OK about the 12 month limit.

The article goes into detail to say:

"The Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs has indicated that effective October 1 this year, foreign applicants for the one year retirement visa, or those renewing, must take their embassy letter guaranteeing their income to the ministry of foreign affairs in Bangkok for a stamp of confirmation. They then return to the local immigration bureau with the letter and process the application as now."

The article goes on to say:

"The ministry emphasized that applicants need journey to Bangkok to do this only once and not annually. The letter they take to the ministry must be the original from the embassy and must not be more than 12 months old. This means that most applicants for a retirement visa, or a renewal, from October 1 this year will need a new letter from their embassy concerning his or her income."

It continues:

"Immigration sources stressed that all applicants for one year visas, whether farangs over the age of 50 or those with a Thai spouse or dependents, will need to register as a one-off with the ministry if they need an embassy letter as part of the process. "It's just one extra step and the immigration bureau will handle the applications as now provided that the embassy letter has to be stamped by the ministry," a senior police official said, adding that no other regulations have been changed."

"The exception to the new rule are those foreigners, aged 50 and above, who keep at least 800,000 baht in a Thai bank and can show it has been there for three months prior to the application renewal.

These long stayers do not need a letter from the respective embassy to apply for the yearly visa and thus do not have to appear at the ministry of foreign affairs in Bangkok. However, only a small minority of retirement visa holders keep such a sum in a Thai bank for the requisite period, most relying on a combination of pension income in their home country and a lessor amount in the Thai bank."

"Holder's of one year visas, whether retirement or the married man's variety, are asked to note the new regulation for the time being."

The article closes by saying, "Nearer the starting date on October 1,2007, there will be leaflets in English and Thai available at immigration bureaus, including currently ambiguous matters such as foreigners who are unable to travel long distances because they are incapacitated."

I am sure I have stirred up some thoughts and questions.

I am wondering why I have not seen anything in this forum already as most of the time you all are on top of these new things whether they are real or rumored

I hope I have shared something that is of use to a lot of us.

[macb]

I think the phrase wait and see comes to mind :

If that be the case and its a one off stamp, I wonder how that will effect renewing each year after this, use the same letter or letter not needed ????? Whatever not bothered

[lopburi3]

There has been mention of a possible new requirement to obtain a legalization from MFA but there has not been any official announcement and as such it is rumor at this time unless the article cites more than it appears.

If the quote is accurate (there does not seem to be any on-line copy) and it appears to be sourced to both MFA and Police which the subject letter is an Immigration Police requirement it seems that one letter can be used for at least as long as current passport is valid (which would clarify that point). The process itself is not that complex (those married have done it for there single letters). For many of us it may make things easier in the long run. Look forward to more details.

[DFCarlson]

Are you sure that you have the correct source? Do you have a link?

The Pattaya Today web page http://www.pattayatoday.net/ shows the current issue (July 16) as Volume 5, Issue 5 and there is no article such as you describe. In addition I searched their site using the word 'retirement' and found nothing.

[Tywais]

Are you sure that you have the correct source? Do you have a link?

The Pattaya Today web page http://www.pattayatoday.net/ shows the current issue (July 16) as Volume 5, Issue 5 and there is no article such as you describe. In addition I searched their site using the word 'retirement' and found nothing.

Sounds like it is on the hardcopy and not on the website yet.

[longball53098]

Are you sure that you have the correct source? Do you have a link?

The Pattaya Today web page http://www.pattayatoday.net/ shows the current issue (July 16) as Volume 5, Issue 5 and there is no article such as you describe. In addition I searched their site using the word 'retirement' and found nothing.

Sounds like it is on the hardcopy and not on the website yet.

I agree,,,,,,,the website is not up to date with their hardcopy,,,,,,,,,,,I have that in front of me as I write this,,,,,,,,,,,and that's where I quoted the article from,,,,,,word for word.

[Maestro]

I see it as the so-called legalisation of the consul’s or authorised consular official’s signature. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) has these signatures on file and can verify them, whereas the Immigration offices would not know if a signature is genuine or not. The MFA collects a fee for its service, of course.

--

Maestro

[DFCarlson]

Where would you have to go in Bangkok to have this done?

[lopburi3]

Location :

Legalization Division , 3rd floor

Department of Consular Affairs

Ministry of Foreign Affairs

123 Chaeng Watthana Road

Bangkok 10210

Tel : 0-2575-1056-59 Fax : 0-2575-1054

Service hours : 08.30 - 14.30 hrs. (Closed on Saturday - Sunday and Public Holidays)

Email : [email protected]

[bedbugy]

could the reason for the changes

many farangs are scanning the documents and changing the amount recieved to quallify and re printing with new figures

not showng the correct amount if fraud

it wont be long before all married and single farangs on fixed income who say they quallify must show the bank book every 3 months when reporting to the immigration if the sums don't match deportation and prison term and fine will be order of the da

[tijnebijn]

could the reason for the changes

many farangs are scanning the documents and changing the amount recieved to quallify and re printing with new figures

not showng the correct amount if fraud

it wont be long before all married and single farangs on fixed income who say they quallify must show the bank book every 3 months when reporting to the immigration if the sums don't match deportation and prison term and fine will be order of the da

Another doom talker , please keep your thoughts for yourself . It is not helpful , this topic is a positive one and we all would like to keep it this way

[thaireg]

I see it as the so-called legalisation of the consul's or authorised consular official's signature. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) has these signatures on file and can verify them, whereas the Immigration offices would not know if a signature is genuine or not. The MFA collects a fee for its service, of course.

--

Maestro

If the only reason for this is to verify signatures, surely it's possible for the MFA to send copies of those signatures to each Immigration Office for verification when applying for the extension.

I've been using the same consul letter for 4 years now and was planning to get a new one before my application in October anyway, but I hadn't planned on an extra trip to Bangkok and a probable stay whilst things are sorted out. It rarely takes one visit to get papers stamped.

[Gary A]

Is it saying that since you only have to do it once that you can continue to use the same letter year after year? When it is legalized, do you have to verify your pensions with the Thai government?

[gavstah]

Where would you have to go in Bangkok to have this done?

Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

AKA the Ministry of Interminable Waiting . . .

[Maestro]

...extra trip to Bangkok...

Can’t one do it by mail? It’s asking a lot for everybody to have to go to Bangkok in person.

--

Maestro

[Pez]

The topic title here is taken from the headline of an article on the front-page of the most recent issue of the Pattaya Today newspaper date Volume 6, Issue 21 16-31 July 2007

I post this to generate some discussions about this to see if anyone else has seen this article or one like it. Forgive me for any typing errors as I am the hunt and peck typist and I believe I have quoted the article in it's entirety.

I fall into the area of using the letter and partial money in the bank. I am an American over 60 with a full pension and this year I will be renewing for the second time. I just received a new letter from the US Embassy last month so I will easily be OK about the 12 month limit.

The article goes into detail to say:

"The Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs has indicated that effective October 1 this year, foreign applicants for the one year retirement visa, or those renewing, must take their embassy letter guaranteeing their income to the ministry of foreign affairs in Bangkok for a stamp of confirmation. They then return to the local immigration bureau with the letter and process the application as now."

The article goes on to say:

"The ministry emphasized that applicants need journey to Bangkok to do this only once and not annually. The letter they take to the ministry must be the original from the embassy and must not be more than 12 months old. This means that most applicants for a retirement visa, or a renewal, from October 1 this year will need a new letter from their embassy concerning his or her income."

It continues:

"Immigration sources stressed that all applicants for one year visas, whether farangs over the age of 50 or those with a Thai spouse or dependents, will need to register as a one-off with the ministry if they need an embassy letter as part of the process. "It's just one extra step and the immigration bureau will handle the applications as now provided that the embassy letter has to be stamped by the ministry," a senior police official said, adding that no other regulations have been changed."

"The exception to the new rule are those foreigners, aged 50 and above, who keep at least 800,000 baht in a Thai bank and can show it has been there for three months prior to the application renewal.

These long stayers do not need a letter from the respective embassy to apply for the yearly visa and thus do not have to appear at the ministry of foreign affairs in Bangkok. However, only a small minority of retirement visa holders keep such a sum in a Thai bank for the requisite period, most relying on a combination of pension income in their home country and a lessor amount in the Thai bank."

"Holder's of one year visas, whether retirement or the married man's variety, are asked to note the new regulation for the time being."

The article closes by saying, "Nearer the starting date on October 1,2007, there will be leaflets in English and Thai available at immigration bureaus, including currently ambiguous matters such as foreigners who are unable to travel long distances because they are incapacitated."

I am sure I have stirred up some thoughts and questions.

I am wondering why I have not seen anything in this forum already as most of the time you all are on top of these new things whether they are real or rumored

I hope I have shared something that is of use to a lot of us.

Back in April 2007 I went to renew the retirement(in BKK) visa and was told to take my Pension verification letter from the UK embassy to the Min of Forign Affairs for verifying. This was done cost 200Bht, you can opt for the sameday service - 2 hours or accept the next day service for 100Bht. Net day got the visa no problem.

[lopburi3]

And I did mine, from US Embassy, in June with no such request. But it does show that the subject has come up before. Thanks for the report.

//as a matter of interest did you provide a passbook/bank letter also?//

[macb]

Here is the positive reply:

Why not wait until you see something in black and white from Immigration or the Government :

Your all surmising and not getting the correct answers it appears to me.

Right now its from News clippings and nothing concrete we are guests in there country if they will want a trip to MFA so be it no problem

[wowpow]

I was at Pattaya Immigration Office this morning. The Senior Police officer at the retirement section confirmed that this rule will apply from 1st October 2007.

One cannot help wondering what they hope to achieve. The letter from the Embassy says that you have told them that you get $XXX pension, that's all.

Another peg in the Thai Immigration 'charm offensive' to make foreigners welcome?

[Gary A]

I'm not surprised at all. The last two times I got my visa, the letter from the US embassy was questioned. In the past, I got money from my US ATM card and that money never went through my Thai bank account. Both times the immigration officer sat there with a calculator determining how much went through my account. (Thanks to Citibank US for raising the fee that makes it too expensive to use my US ATM card). My money is now wire transferred and DOES go through my Thai bank account. Now it looks like I have to get another letter from the embassy then have it verified. If that letter is good year after year, I welcome this change.

[Krub]

Do you have to go in person or can it be done by a third party ?

[Jingthing]

October. hel_l month?

MOFA strikes again.

(Ministry Of Farang Annoyances)

[ProThaiExpat]

We all have known for sometime that no verification of the stated pension amount in your letter is required by the U.S. authorities. Perhaps, in order to get the MFA stamp, verification of income will be required when you appear at MFA.

What puzzles me is why is the MFA involved in what is clearly within the jurisdiction of the Immigration Police? After all, we are talking about extending an already granted visa, not the obtaining of one.

[lopburi3]

If this happens it will be to certify that the paper is real. The MFA will have a copy of the signatures and Consulate seals used by the various Embassies and make sure they are real and keep a copy on file of the paper (so any later change can easily be detected) in my understanding. It may also help to provide legal consequences under Thai law, as well as home country, in the event of tampering.

[Larryst]

Will the embassies certifying letters. Tell the customers to go to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to get the extra stamp? Hopefully they will tell them and give directions. So they don't get held up when there applying.

Edited July 21, 2007 by Larryst

[Bagwan]

Earlier this month I renewed my retirement visa at the Jomtien office. I followed the advice of Barry Kenyon, the Honorary Consul, not to bother with the married man's visa since it is too much hassle. I paid about 2300 baht for a letter which confirmed by annual income and was under the impression that this would hold good for a period of two years. I have since learned that I have to pay 2300 baht every year for this piece of paper. Since it cost only 1900 baht to get the visa it begs the question why so much? I did have to provide proof of income BTW. Since pensions can only increase and annuities are fixed monthly sums going to BKK once and the documentation being good for several annual renewals seems to be a good idea.

[Krub]

Earlier this month I renewed my retirement visa at the Jomtien office. I followed the advice of Barry Kenyon, the Honorary Consul, not to bother with the married man's visa since it is too much hassle. I paid about 2300 baht for a letter which confirmed by annual income and was under the impression that this would hold good for a period of two years. I have since learned that I have to pay 2300 baht every year for this piece of paper. Since it cost only 1900 baht to get the visa it begs the question why so much? I did have to provide proof of income BTW. Since pensions can only increase and annuities are fixed monthly sums going to BKK once and the documentation being good for several annual renewals seems to be a good idea.

Did you get your letter on the spot or did you have to wait ? What is the Consul's contact (office address, tel number) ?

Thanks

[lopburi3]

The current talk is that letters in the future (October?) will have to be registered with MFA after issue but then can be used for a number of years. Currently some offices seem to accept copy and you can use same letter and others want original each year. Time will tell.

As for the price believe it is very reasonable for those getting from officer who is locally present to provide. Am sure most other nationalities would welcome the chance to obtain in there city of extension application.

[chiang mai]

The requirement for holders of retirement visa's to have 800,000 baht on deposit three months before renewal date has been in place since at least April of this year. I renewed my retirement visa in May and was asked to sign a form at that time stating the 900k would need to be on deposit three months prior to renewal in 2008.

[Lifelover]

The requirement for holders of retirement visa's to have 800,000 baht on deposit three months before renewal date has been in place since at least April of this year. I renewed my retirement visa in May and was asked to sign a form at that time stating the 900k would need to be on deposit three months prior to renewal in 2008.

Which Immigration Office was that?