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China and Thailand should expedite building of the China-Thailand railway : Xi Jinping


snoop1130

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4 hours ago, RocketDog said:

Modis operendi.

Tentacles slide in slowly and serriptitiously until they've got you by the b*Alls and squeezing your heart.

Very true! The IMF and World Bank lend for infrastructure if built at all is over budget and inferior

China does it transparently.

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That project has been underway for a while now. Hua Hin is building a new gigantic train station. Funds are Chinese I believe. It's pretty obvious the train will go from Vientiane to the Malaysia through Thailand. Great project for the region. Much needed based on my train experiences here !

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1 minute ago, Pipi Olly said:

That project has been underway for a while now. Hua Hin is building a new gigantic train station. Funds are Chinese I believe. It's pretty obvious the train will go from Vientiane to the Malaysia through Thailand. Great project for the region. Much needed based on my train experiences here !

By the way - I agree. 

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20 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

accelerate construction of the China-Thailand railway

By the time the HST link between Vientiane, Nong Khai and Korat is complete (only "on paper" at the moment), the section between Korat and Bangkok will be obsolete and need upgrading!!

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17 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

"Laos has had to make compromises, including on its own sovereignty, to appease Beijing and seek some financial forbearance, allowing Chinese security agents and police to operate in the country as Beijing extends its repression beyond its borders, according to human rights groups and Lao activists. The Laotian electrical grid is now partly controlled by China, in what analysts believe is a trade-off in lieu of debt repayments. A Chinese company provides security for the new train line."

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/interactive/2023/laos-debt-china-belt-road/

 

It seems that a major sticking point on the Thai section is that China is demanding property rights along the whole length. China out of the goodness of it's heart will not overburden Thai companies that could supply engineering, labour  and components such as cement and steel, but instead will contractually specify purchase of everything needed, including labour, right down to railway sleepers and tracks from China.

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20 hours ago, RabbitFoot said:

Usual western propaganda. Full of resentment.

I've been there. Train is great and is benefiting the country.

Period.

It is indeed. Laos needs others to do their part to get the real benefit.

Can't for the life of me understand why they are not progressing the freight link between Vientiane and Nong Khai, probably the Thais cannot decide where to put the new station and freight depot

When I was there in January the Vietnamese were looking to improve connectivity with Laos to benefit from the new train service, only takes 1.5 hours from Chinese border to Luang Prabang and 2 hours from LP to Vientiane.

 

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This could go either way from my perspective. One way is the Chinese way, super fast efficient trains with rails built at the speed of light. The other way is the Thai SuperSpeed train from BKK to Udon Thani that has taken almost a decade in building so far; is not yet near being operational; indeed it is further behind that it was when the project started and the maximum speed is now 50kph and the train stops at every station and has only one line. 

If I have confidence that the Thais would step out of the way and let the Chinese build the railway, then I would have full confidence in the future infrastructure of Thailand......but that won't happen will it? We'll get some festering sub-committee secreting money about their persons while the project never gets completed. 

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7 hours ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

What would be great right now is if China was  serious  would be to tell Taiwan, were  sorry we  will stop all activity concerning your  nation and will also stop demanding the S China sea.....this would  have incredible repurcussions round the world and bring massive stability and give them some decent credibility, way more than the constant crap they spew out.

Great for who exactly?

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5 hours ago, Iamloki said:

No doubt the train is very pretty Rabbit... but that does not address the debt and overall cost to Laos. If it weren't for all the financial damage to all those African nations, I would be more inclined to write it all off as American propaganda... But then, there are all those African examples aren't there?

Don't forget the Chinese port of Hambantota in Sri Lanka.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hambantota_International_Port

 

Lots of information about Chinese loans in the link.

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On 10/20/2023 at 11:20 AM, RabbitFoot said:

It's gonna be great. The train that China build in Laos is pretty amazing. Thailand could greatly benefit.

China's investments in Laos are not that wonderful.

THe eco-damage is phenomenal and the economic n=benefits largely favour China over anything for Laos.

THey have destroyed the ecology of Mekong with their dams

THe railway actually does little for the Laos economy - it isn't even very near to most of the towns - it isn't used by the people - they can't afford it.

 

The reason for the railway is so that China can ship goods out of Westen China into markets in the West without having to go round via ports on their east coast. THey are particularly interested in deep water ports in Burma and the Andaman coast.

 

To do this they tie up Laos and other countries into debts for these facilities that they can't possibly repay thus giving China even more sway over the country in the years to come.

 

China basically is trying to get all of South East Asia in their debt by dangling these "prestigious" civil engineering projects in front of politicians who are all too eager to boost their own reputation and popularity regardless of the massive downside further down the road - by which time They probably won't be in office,

 

Britain and France used railways as a tool of colonisation in the 19th Century, China is doing the same now. Interestingly Thailand refused railways from both France and Britain then - but maybe the current crop of politicians haven't learned from history.

Edited by kwilco
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13 hours ago, Pipi Olly said:

That project has been underway for a while now. Hua Hin is building a new gigantic train station. Funds are Chinese I believe. It's pretty obvious the train will go from Vientiane to the Malaysia through Thailand. Great project for the region. Much needed based on my train experiences here !

Nah thats just an upgrade to dual tracks so slow trains dont have to stop to let another pass in certain areas, its  all narrow  guage also if you go and look at it.

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11 hours ago, billd766 said:

Don't forget the Chinese port of Hambantota in Sri Lanka.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hambantota_International_Port

 

Lots of information about Chinese loans in the link.

These 2 professors from Harvard and Johns Hopkins really did a good job researching the subject:

 

The Chinese ‘Debt Trap’ Is a Myth

 

As said in the wiki article, China was not even involved in the beginning. It was the Canadians and the Danes that did the feasibility studies.

 

I particularly like this paragraph from the above article:

 

Quote

As Michael Ondaatje, one of Sri Lanka’s greatest chroniclers, once said, “In Sri Lanka a well-told lie is worth a thousand facts.” And the debt-trap narrative is just that: a lie, and a powerful one.

 

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2 hours ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

Nah thats just an upgrade to dual tracks so slow trains dont have to stop to let another pass in certain areas, its  all narrow  guage also if you go and look at it.

Correct, the SRT have slowly (it's a 20-year plan, and running late) been duelling some of their single-track main-lines, but it's all just a much-needed improvement of their existing metre-gauge system.

 

And not funded by China, as claimed.

 

Interestingly much of the new Chinese-built line through Laos is also reported to be single-track, with passing-places along the way, and is medium-speed at best (understandable given the difficult terrain), Wikipedia say "The railway is built on a single track with passing loops and is electrified to China's Class I trunk railway standards, suitable for 160 km/h (100 mph) passenger and 120 km/h (75 mph) freight trains" .

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6 hours ago, Selatan said:

These 2 professors from Harvard and Johns Hopkins really did a good job researching the subject:

 

The Chinese ‘Debt Trap’ Is a Myth

 

As said in the wiki article, China was not even involved in the beginning. It was the Canadians and the Danes that did the feasibility studies.

 

I particularly like this paragraph from the above article:

 

 

quote from your post "As said in the wiki article, China was not even involved in the beginning. It was the Canadians and the Danes that did the feasibility studies".

 

Did Denmark or Canada actually fund the port, or just do a feasibility study?

 

But WHO does Sri Lanka owe the money to? Denmark, Canada or the Chinese banks who actually provided the funds?

 

Who paid the loan off and now controls the port?

 

Denmark, Canada or China?

 

To which country did Sri Lanka default on the loan?

 

Denmark, Canada or China?

 

It does not matter whether China was involved in the beginning or not. What matters is which country provided the funds to rebuild the port.

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