When having received a '7 days to leave the country' permission, would doing a border-run result in a refusal to re-enter Thailand?

[Red Phoenix]

A US friend of mine was 'under consideration' for her 1-year extension of stay application for reason of marriage (based on her 90-day Non Imm O Marriage Visa). However at the end of that 'under consideration'  period she did receive notice that her 1-year extension of stay was NOT approved and that she had to report to the local Imm Office (Phuket). The Imm Officer there did not tell her the  reason for the non-approval, but provided her with a retro-active '7 days to leave the country' permission. 

As that does not provide her with sufficient time to organize for that situation which arose completely unexpectedy, she will leave Thailand in 4 days as required but wants to return semi-immediately.  And she is considering either doing a border-run and returning VisaExempt, or alternatively applying for the 1-year ME Non Imm O Marriage Visa at the Thai consulate in Savannakhet.

But the MAIN QUESTION is of course whether that '7 days to leave the country' stamp in her passport, would provide problems when exiting and then semi-immediately wanting to re-enter Thailand (or when applying for the Visa at the Savannakhet Consulate)..  

[DrJack54]

She can exit Thailand within the 7 days and reenter on visa exempt or any visa that she obtains.

[connda]

I'm really curious as why she was not approved as females married to Thai men do not have a financial requirement to meet.  The Thai husband does, but if I remember right, foreign females and Thai husbands can pool their funds to meet the requirement (and that bar is very low).  Other than that, I pretty much thought that foreign gals married to a Thai guy simply needed to prove they are actually married and breathing.  It's a realllllll low bar and it provides a path to citizenship.

[BritTim]

The order to leave within seven days does not, by itself, negate the right to do a border bounce. Getting a (single or multiple) Non O visa before the return would be better. Officials at the border are likely to ask why her application for an extension of stay was denied. If she has a visa, the answer probably will not matter.

[CharlieKo]

Surprised they didn't offer her a visa for visiting family, so she could re apply for her Non O for marriage visa. IMO the 7 day notice to leave is the immigration officer's decision not an order he had been given. Should have said why her application failed.  

[Skipalongcassidy]

There are details missing... IO would not give a non-approval without a reason.

[Lite Beer]

As her application at Phuket immigration was accepted it seems a bit strange that it got turned down at head office without reason.

The fact that Phuket accepted it means that it must have complied.

[Sheryl]

9 hours ago, CharlieKo said:

Surprised they didn't offer her a visa for visiting family, so she could re apply for her Non O for marriage visa. IMO the 7 day notice to leave is the immigration officer's decision not an order he had been given. Should have said why her application failed.  

She already had a non-O visa.

 

She was applying for extension of stay.

[Liquorice]

10 hours ago, connda said:

I'm really curious as why she was not approved as females married to Thai men do not have a financial requirement to meet.  The Thai husband does, but if I remember right, foreign females and Thai husbands can pool their funds to meet the requirement (and that bar is very low). 

There is no financial requirement for either the Thai husband or his foreign spouse.

 

10 hours ago, connda said:

Other than that, I pretty much thought that foreign gals married to a Thai guy simply needed to prove they are actually married and breathing.

It would appear the only reason the application could be refused is on the basis of either not being able to prove a relationship, or prove the marriage isn't de jure and defacto.

Edited October 21, 2023 by Liquorice

[Red Phoenix]

13 minutes ago, Liquorice said:

There is no financial requirement for either the Thai husband or his foreign spouse.

 

It would appear the only reason the application could be refused is on the basis of either not being able to prove a relationship, or the marriage isn't de jure and defacto.

Three months ago she did got the 90-day Non Imm O Marriage Visa at Phuket Immigration, and also her application last month for the 1-year extension of stay was accepted by Phuket Immigration.  She was 'under consideration' and normally had to come back on 18 October to get the stamp in her Passport.  She went to Phuket Imm Office on that date and they told her 'it wasn't ready yet'.  When she checked 2 days later on-line the status of her application it said ' Not Approved'.  Alarmed she went again to Phuket Imm Office, were they confirmed the application was Not approved and did not give a reason, but instead gave her a '7 day to leave the country' stamp.  

The whole thing is totally out of bounds, announcing a Non Approved and 'leave the country' just two days after telling her on date of return for the stamp that 'it was not ready yet' and that she should check the status on-line.  

Note that there was however a non-announced home-visit by Immigration when she and her Thai husband were out, so it's possible that that unsuccessful and non-announced home-visit was the reason for the rejection of her 1-year extension of stay application.  It could also be because during the 1-year extension of stay application, her Thai husband mentioned that they were in the process of applying for a trip to the USA.

[Red Phoenix]

1 hour ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

There are details missing... IO would not give a non-approval without a reason.

Yes, there must be a reason. But Immigration did not tell her what the reason was, but instead provided her with a '7 days to leave the country' stamp.  

[Sophon]

11 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

The Imm Officer there did not tell her the  reason for the non-approval, but provided her with a retro-active '7 days to leave the country' permission. 

As that does not provide her with sufficient time to organize for that situation which arose completely unexpectedy, she will leave Thailand in 4 days as required

Even if the seven days had been enough time for her to organize matters, she would still have had to leave the country within the seven days. The "seven days to leave" is just what it says, no further extension is possible after getting such a stamp. Off course, after leaving and reentering she can start over again, the "seven days to leave" stamp has no negative connotations for future extensions.

[Liquorice]

5 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

Note that there was however a non-announced home-visit by Immigration when she and her Thai husband were out, so it's possible that that unsuccessful and non-announced home-visit was the reason for the rejection of her 1-year extension of stay application. 

They therefore couldn't prove the relationship was de jure and defacto, but they should have made an appointment.
If that is the reason for refusal, then the husband should raise a complaint.
Has the Thai husband approached Immigration for more information.

 

The local office will usually make a house visit before sending the application to the regional office for approval.
In this case it would appear Phuket forwarded an incomplete application, hence it was refused.

 

9 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

It could also be because during the 1-year extension of stay application, her Thai husband mentioned that they were in the process of applying for a trip to the USA.

Extremely doubtful. Had that had any impact on the application, Phuket wouldn't have rejected the application.

[CharlieH]

If it were me, in order to settle this and get answers so as to avoid any future issues, I would be going to the Regional Office that refused the application or Bangkok immigration to sort it out.

Do it as a couple.

 

 

[Liquorice]

2 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

If it were me, in order to settle this and get answers so as to avoid any future issues, I would be going to the Regional Office that refused the application or Bangkok immigration to sort it out.

 

 

From the added facts posted by @Red Phoenix, it would appear Phuket forwarded an incomplete application (without a house visit to confirm the relationship was de jure and defacto). There is nothing the regional office could do in this case, their decision being based on the (incomplete) documentation submitted.

The initial complaint has to be raised at Phuket and why they forwarded the application without proof of a de jure and defacto relationship.
Sheer incompetence, couldn't give a toss attitude.

[bigt3116]

2 hours ago, Liquorice said:

without proof of a de jure and defacto relationship.

Surely the Kor Ror 2 is that proof ?

 

[Nonthaburi Boy]

45 minutes ago, bigt3116 said:

Surely the Kor Ror 2 is that proof ?

 

It’s part of it, along with whatever else the immigration office want (interview, neighbours’ testimony, photos, home visit). In my case it is a Kor Ror 22 (married overseas) issued in 1998 so that proves almost nothing of relevance - it just completes the paperwork.

[BritTim]

5 hours ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

There are details missing... IO would not give a non-approval without a reason.

This is certainly very unusual. Usually, you would be contacted by phone and given the opportunity of rectifying the problem. Inferring a plausible reason is guesswork.

 

To cover a couple of points first:

1. Being ordered out of the country within seven days is the normal consequence of a denied extension.
2. While Immigration will almost always tell you why an application is denied, they have no obligation to do so.

Now, onto the most likely reason. Very likely, there is something in her prior immigration history that the senior official charged with auditing the application did not like. It could be a dodgy Non Ed or volunteer visa, perhaps. Or previous use of an agent that this particular official has a vendetta against. In such a case, the senior official will just deny without comment, and the local immigration office will be as much in the dark about the reason as we are.

 

It is worth mentioning that there have been reports of local immigration offices being reluctant to accept applications just after the use of an agent without a border bounce first. They state that they worry that division headquarters will deny the application.

[DJ54]

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

reluctant to accept applications just after the use of an agent without

Curious how IO would know an agent was used? ….

[CharlieKo]

6 hours ago, Sheryl said:

She already had a non-O visa.

 

She was applying for extension of stay.

Indeed, She was applying to renew her visa, But was refused. But she could have got a (i think) three month visa based on visiting family. Which would have covered her when her Non O expired. And allowing her to re-apply for her extension! The immigration officer was not helpful. He just did what he wanted. Even though there was no need to give her a 7 day notice to leave. IMO.

[CharlieKo]

6 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

Note that there was however a non-announced home-visit by Immigration when she and her Thai husband were out, so it's possible that that unsuccessful and non-announced home-visit was the reason for the rejection of her 1-year extension of stay application.

That is quite a feeble excuse for not allowing the extension. They could have been out shopping or something. Why didn't they arrange another visit?

 

Phuket immigration is one of the worse offices to have to use. They charged me 200 baht too do a 90 day report, There is no charge for doing a 90 day report. I don't live in Phuket anymore.   

[StayinThailand2much]

19 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

But the MAIN QUESTION is of course whether that '7 days to leave the country' stamp in her passport, would provide problems when exiting and then semi-immediately wanting to re-enter Thailand (or when applying for the Visa at the Savannakhet Consulate)..  

Most unlikely, as those 7 days are commonly given when a visa extension is refused. Any 'problems' will rather depend on the overall visa history, and/or whether the visa officer/IO decides that the applicant/visitor has "too many Thailand visas in the passport", or "spends too much time in Thailand"...

Edited October 21, 2023 by StayinThailand2much

[XJPSX]

Use a descent agent to pay for your worries to go away.

[Skipalongcassidy]

19 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

Three months ago she did got the 90-day Non Imm O Marriage Visa at Phuket Immigration, and also her application last month for the 1-year extension of stay was accepted by Phuket Immigration.  She was 'under consideration' and normally had to come back on 18 October to get the stamp in her Passport.  She went to Phuket Imm Office on that date and they told her 'it wasn't ready yet'.  When she checked 2 days later on-line the status of her application it said ' Not Approved'.  Alarmed she went again to Phuket Imm Office, were they confirmed the application was Not approved and did not give a reason, but instead gave her a '7 day to leave the country' stamp.  

The whole thing is totally out of bounds, announcing a Non Approved and 'leave the country' just two days after telling her on date of return for the stamp that 'it was not ready yet' and that she should check the status on-line.  

Note that there was however a non-announced home-visit by Immigration when she and her Thai husband were out, so it's possible that that unsuccessful and non-announced home-visit was the reason for the rejection of her 1-year extension of stay application.  It could also be because during the 1-year extension of stay application, her Thai husband mentioned that they were in the process of applying for a trip to the USA.

Aw... the rest of the story... bit by bit... when you are "under consideration" you agree to make yourselves available at a moments notice for a home visit... she didn't do that... there's the reason for the "non approval"... all she had to do is stay home for a month and she wouldn't do that... sop for IO is a phone call a couple of hours before the visit.

[Lite Beer]

2 hours ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

Aw... the rest of the story... bit by bit... when you are "under consideration" you agree to make yourselves available at a moments notice for a home visit... she didn't do that... there's the reason for the "non approval"... all she had to do is stay home for a month and she wouldn't do that... sop for IO is a phone call a couple of hours before the visit.

Total rubbish.

[Red Phoenix]

19 hours ago, BritTim said:

...

It is worth mentioning that there have been reports of local immigration offices being reluctant to accept applications just after the use of an agent without a border bounce first. They state that they worry that division headquarters will deny the application.

She is married to a Thai national, so there is no financial requirement to be met for her Non Imm O Marriage Visa and subsequent extensions.  So there is no reason to use an agent, and I am pertinent that she did not make use of one, not even for a 'handhold' service to help with the other requirements for her 1-year extension of stay application.

[Red Phoenix]

4 hours ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

Aw... the rest of the story... bit by bit... when you are "under consideration" you agree to make yourselves available at a moments notice for a home visit... she didn't do that... there's the reason for the "non approval"... all she had to do is stay home for a month and she wouldn't do that... sop for IO is a phone call a couple of hours before the visit.

She nor her Thai husband did leave Phuket.  She was probably just at the temple or at the grocery store when the Imm Officer arrived UNANNOUNCED (NO phone-call). 

Are you suggesting that you are under virtual house-arrest during the under consideration period so that the Imm Officer can drop-in at any time of his liking?

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

She is married to a Thai national, so there is no financial requirement to be met for her Non Imm O Marriage Visa and subsequent extensions.  So there is no reason to use an agent, and I am pertinent that she did not make use of one, not even for a 'handhold' service to help with the other requirements for her 1-year extension of stay application.

I am not suggesting that there was anything fundamentally wrong with the marriage extension application, only that there could have been something in her immigration history that the official at Division headquarters did not like. I assume she married in Thailand which implies that there was a period during which she was in Thailand without being married. Divining the reason for the denial is all guesswork, and my guess might be wrong. The unannounced visit would not normally be the issue, though if they spoke to a neighbour who told the officials something negative, I guess that could be a reason.

[Sheryl]

6 hours ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

Aw... the rest of the story... bit by bit... when you are "under consideration" you agree to make yourselves available at a moments notice for a home visit... she didn't do that... there's the reason for the "non approval"... all she had to do is stay home for a month and she wouldn't do that... sop for IO is a phone call a couple of hours before the visit.

Per the OP no notice - much less a couple of hours notice -- was given.

[Maestro]

Removed an off-topic post and the replies to it.