Do you think (most) financially struggling western retirees are stupid for not retiring abroad?

[Prubangboy]

12 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

For discussion purposes you can.

Dullards who try to quash every conversation with a bunch of tedious "it all depends on the individual, you can not generalize"-obtuseness have no real claim to even bare existence.

[Bobthegimp]

2 minutes ago, Prubangboy said:

Trump Trash factor, fellow Americans are assumed guilty until proven innocent.

Canadian here.

 

Do you drag that garbage around with you everywhere you go?

 

  If someone brings up politics around me there is one subtle redirection of the conversation, then I get up and walk away.  Life is too short to waste it on that topic. 

 

Back in the Baby Bush era I met a couple of Boeing engineers on a hike around Mt. Rainier (Wonderland Trail).  They were friendly at first, but it didn't take long for their conversation to devolve into politics.  They asked what Canadians thought of Baby Bush.

 

I evaded as long as possible before unloading the truth. "The man is a moron, and the intelligence of anyone who feels represented by him is highly suspect".  Oh man, that set them off 555. One guy would have shot me if he had one of his guns with him; instead he ran off into the forest like an angry baboon.  I never saw him again. 

 

His more rational friend was angry, but did an excellent job of explaining the situation to me. The alternative was John Kerry, a chameleon who flip flopped on everything and had a dodgy military service record. He said that they just couldn't trust the man.  The election results made more sense to me then, so I thanked him and cranked up my pace so as not to come across either of them again. 

[Prubangboy]

1 minute ago, Bobthegimp said:

Canadian here.

 

Do you drag that garbage around with you everywhere you go?

 

 

 

 

It's like a jokey throw away joke, not an impassioned plea for understanding. Yuck.

 

I'm glad I didn't riff on Canadian/Yank intra-expat relations in Mexico.

 

If forced at gunpoint, I'd pick the humorless coldie's over yee-hah US retired military/and law enforcement living next door to me, but really, only at gunpoint.

 

Many Americans were refugees from Costa Rica ("too Canadian").

[bignok]

13 minutes ago, Bobthegimp said:

Canadian here.

 

Do you drag that garbage around with you everywhere you go?

 

  If someone brings up politics around me there is one subtle redirection of the conversation, then I get up and walk away.  Life is too short to waste it on that topic. 

 

Back in the Baby Bush era I met a couple of Boeing engineers on a hike around Mt. Rainier (Wonderland Trail).  They were friendly at first, but it didn't take long for their conversation to devolve into politics.  They asked what Canadians thought of Baby Bush.

 

I evaded as long as possible before unloading the truth. "The man is a moron, and the intelligence of anyone who feels represented by him is highly suspect".  Oh man, that set them off 555. One guy would have shot me if he had one of his guns with him; instead he ran off into the forest like an angry baboon.  I never saw him again. 

 

His more rational friend was angry, but did an excellent job of explaining the situation to me. The alternative was John Kerry, a chameleon who flip flopped on everything and had a dodgy military service record. He said that they just couldn't trust the man.  The election results made more sense to me then, so I thanked him and cranked up my pace so as not to come across either of them again. 

Or say 9/11 was no big deal. I did that these yanks went crazy.

[Prubangboy]

I was in the Towers on 9/11 and caught the last subway out across the river to Jersey City.

 

As I witnessed that plane hit and change our land forever, I called my pot dealer and ordered a quarter pound. 2 hours later, the whole town was dry.

 

 

[ChristianBlessing]

On 10/21/2023 at 3:22 PM, Lacessit said:

I don't think they are stupid, just unable to uproot themselves. My guess is people who retire outside their homeland are far more likely to have travelled extensively. 

Well stated. Being unaware is far from being stupid. Those who have traveled and have awareness of the possibilities of a life abroad might be more inclined to consider retirement abroad. It has little to do with one intelligence.

[tomazbodner]

15 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I find your post weird.

It's parroting the false myth that you need to be richer than average to retire abroad.

Being rich is always good anywhere, but the overwhelmingly primary motivator for retirement abroad for most people that retire abroad is economics.

Obviously you need some money to get started and have an emergency buffer and obviously not everyone has that.

But you need some money to fit out a vehicle to live in as well. 

 

You're very lousy at reading, and only read what you want to see.

 

I guess you didn't notice anything about language, culture, habits, courage,... But it's your post. Read whatever you wish.

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, tomazbodner said:

You're very lousy at reading, and only read what you want to see.

 

I guess you didn't notice anything about language, culture, habits, courage,... But it's your post. Read whatever you wish.

OK.

Thanks for sharing.

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, Bobthegimp said:

Canadian here.

 

Do you drag that garbage around with you everywhere you go?

 

  If someone brings up politics around me there is one subtle redirection of the conversation, then I get up and walk away.  Life is too short to waste it on that topic. 

 

Back in the Baby Bush era I met a couple of Boeing engineers on a hike around Mt. Rainier (Wonderland Trail).  They were friendly at first, but it didn't take long for their conversation to devolve into politics.  They asked what Canadians thought of Baby Bush.

 

I evaded as long as possible before unloading the truth. "The man is a moron, and the intelligence of anyone who feels represented by him is highly suspect".  Oh man, that set them off 555. One guy would have shot me if he had one of his guns with him; instead he ran off into the forest like an angry baboon.  I never saw him again. 

 

His more rational friend was angry, but did an excellent job of explaining the situation to me. The alternative was John Kerry, a chameleon who flip flopped on everything and had a dodgy military service record. He said that they just couldn't trust the man.  The election results made more sense to me then, so I thanked him and cranked up my pace so as not to come across either of them again. 

So much for not talking politics...

[Bobthegimp]

7 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

So much for not talking politics...

That was 20 years ago and it took a monumental effort on the Boeing guys' part. I was backed into a corner and they weren't going to let me walk away without saying something, so they got a dose of reality, and if we weren't in a national park I'd have likely come down with an acute case of lead poisoning.  

[Prubangboy]

As a self-proclaimed gimp, you really need to lighten up. No one likes a boring gimp.

 

And as a Canadian gimp, you're already on the back foot with the boring part.

[blazes]

11 hours ago, Bobthegimp said:

Canadian here.

 

His more rational friend was angry, but did an excellent job of explaining the situation to me. The alternative was John Kerry, a chameleon who flip flopped on everything and had a dodgy military service record. He said that they just couldn't trust the man.  The election results made more sense to me then, so I thanked him and cranked up my pace so as not to come across either of them again. 

 

Well, he was certainly right about John Kerry, the Climate Alarmist who travels the world in his private jet to tell us all to prepare for the  Apocalypse.  Hypocrisy personified.

[blazes]

12 hours ago, simon43 said:

[quote]

...

. Infinitely better than bronchitis in a cold Blackpool attic and the food bank.

...

[/quote]

 

Lol, that was me back in February when I had to go back to the UK for cancer investigation.  Living in a mouldy hotel room in Blackpool for 3 months. I didn't have to rely on food banks (I mostly eat fresh fruit/veg which is similar price to Thailand. A bitter experience in the UK and it took me about 2 months to recover back in Thailand/Laos from the bronchitus!

 

News to me that you can buy (fresh) papaya, mango, etc for same price in Blackpool as in Bangkok....

[Yellowtail]

4 hours ago, Bobthegimp said:

That was 20 years ago and it took a monumental effort on the Boeing guys' part. I was backed into a corner and they weren't going to let me walk away without saying something, so they got a dose of reality, and if we weren't in a national park I'd have likely come down with an acute case of lead poisoning.  

A dose of reality from the left, that's hilarious. 

[GinBoy2]

On 10/21/2023 at 9:09 AM, JimTripper said:

getting old alone is downright scary. probably top of the list for most people. you don't realize it until you get older.

 

if you start getting less mobile or problems with cataracts, the list goes on... there's nobody around to help you out except the maid who may not speak english. your dead or crawling for help to the next door neighbor.

 

that's why my neighbor in bangkok went back to home country after decades (at that same apartment in bangkok). he did hire a young thai lady to help him out, but probably not for increasing physical care, it was more just for groceries, errands etc.

 

i hope he got along ok. i think he had extended family back in the home country that settled him in.

Well thats the part many an older expat try to push to the back of their mind.

 

'I exercise and eat well' is the most often response on here, almost claiming that they can defy  nature and live forever.

 

It just ain't true, and you're right getting old and starting to have the inevitable health issues, despite exercising and eating well, coping alone is damn scary.

 

Who knows what the stats are, but I also wonder how many relationships between the 50+ year old guy and the 20 year old gal work out 20 years down the road when the shi***t may be hitting the fan.

 

I've said here before, Thailand is a great place for the 50 year old guy, but you need to know when to call it quits, before you become a very sad, possibly infirm and alone guy

Edited October 26, 2023 by GinBoy2

[RichardColeman]

On 10/21/2023 at 3:06 PM, Jingthing said:

Do you think (most) financially struggling western retirees are stupid for not retiring abroad?

Only 'stupid retirees' are people that cut all ties with their homeland and sell their house to live in another country that des not give the citizenship easy.

 

I would never, ever sell my UK house to live here - it provides an income and most importantly an escape route that does not include me living in a bed and breakfast or a cardboard box !

 

Plus most of the people struggling in the west are mostly people that have not planned for their retirement , smoked and drunk and wasted their money in life - what on earth makes you think these same people would adjust their lifestyle to living in Thailand in later life ? 

[JimTripper]

18 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

Well thats the part many an older expat try to push to the back of their mind.

 

'I exercise and eat well' is the most often response on here, almost claiming that they can defy  nature and live forever.

 

It just ain't true, and you're right getting old and starting to have the inevitable health issues, despite exercising and eating well, coping alone is damn scary.

 

Who knows what the stats are, but I also wonder how many relationships between the 50+ year old guy and the 20 year old gal work out 20 years down the road when the shi***t may be hitting the fan.

 

I've said here before, Thailand is a great place for the 50 year old guy, but you need to know when to call it quits, before you become a very sad, possibly infirm and alone guy

i don't think they work out often. the lady usually ends up finding a younger guy. the reasoning being, they want to be taken care of rather then the other way around.

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

Only 'stupid retirees' are people that cut all ties with their homeland and sell their house to live in another country that des not give the citizenship easy.

 

I would never, ever sell my UK house to live here - it provides an income and most importantly an escape route that does not include me living in a bed and breakfast or a cardboard box !

 

Plus most of the people struggling in the west are mostly people that have not planned for their retirement , smoked and drunk and wasted their money in life - what on earth makes you think these same people would adjust their lifestyle to living in Thailand in later life ? 

Condescending arrogant elitist POV. No further response warranted.

[Jingthing]

Things eventually go south in Thailand, your home country, or anywhere else.

 

Sure support systems or lack of thereof should be considered. 

 

It's not crazy to place a lower value on the very last period of life and or not obsess about living the longest possible amount of time.

 

All decisions have trade offs and consequences. 

 

One advantage of declining in a lower cost country is the relatively lower cost of in home elder care.

 

I think the Philippines because of the English speaking and glut of nurses is maybe the best choice for that purpose.

[scubascuba3]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Things eventually go south in Thailand, your home country, or anywhere else.

 

Sure support systems or lack of thereof should be considered. 

 

It's not crazy to place a lower value on the very last period of life and or not obsess about living the longest possible amount of time.

 

All decisions have trade offs and consequences. 

 

One advantage of declining in a lower cost country is the relatively lower cost of in home elder care.

 

I think the Philippines because of the English speaking and glut of nurses is maybe the best choice for that purpose.

Apparently in UK (maybe same everywhere) in the last 6 months of your life NHS costs are the same as the rest of your life, so expect same huge costs everywhere. People should give it a lot of thought whether to put themselves through it

[JimTripper]

4 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Apparently in UK (maybe same everywhere) in the last 6 months of your life NHS costs are the same as the rest of your life, so expect same huge costs everywhere. People should give it a lot of thought whether to put themselves through it

what's the alternative?

[Jingthing]

11 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Apparently in UK (maybe same everywhere) in the last 6 months of your life NHS costs are the same as the rest of your life, so expect same huge costs everywhere. People should give it a lot of thought whether to put themselves through it

Yes and no.

It's worth asking the question if the majority of our lifes work and resources should be allocated for the last and worse period of life?

Speaking of a typical old age journey. 

There is the period where there is still good quality of life. Then you know what and that miserable period can be short or take years.

People don't move abroad when they've already entered the total <deleted> zone.

They more to better enjoy the still good zone.

The ages that all this occurs of course varies widely.

Edited October 26, 2023 by Jingthing

[noobexpat]

3 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

I've said here before, Thailand is a great place for the 50 year old guy, but you need to know when to call it quits, before you become a very sad, possibly infirm and alone guy

 

Thailand has a number of mega-resort style condos that are for these people. You can get 1 to 1 care if needed.

 

All you need is the money. Its not for those with modest amounts though.

[noobexpat]

3 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

Only 'stupid retirees' are people that cut all ties with their homeland and sell their house to live in another country that des not give the citizenship easy.

 

I would never, ever sell my UK house to live here - it provides an income and most importantly an escape route that does not include me living in a bed and breakfast or a cardboard box !

 

Plus most of the people struggling in the west are mostly people that have not planned for their retirement , smoked and drunk and wasted their money in life - what on earth makes you think these same people would adjust their lifestyle to living in Thailand in later life ? 

 

Load of nonsense. As if i need more taxable income anyway.

The capital from my house doesn't just dissapear you know. In fact i'll unlikely ever spend it.

 

[noobexpat]

2 hours ago, JimTripper said:

what's the alternative?

 

Switzerland?

[GinBoy2]

8 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Condescending arrogant elitist POV. No further response warranted.

Not sure thats true.

 

I also think it's foolhardy to cut all links to a country to which you are a citizen, and hopefully family to go back to, for a country for which you are at best a long term tourist.

 

Only an fool doesn't have an escape plan should things turn south.

 

At the end of the day you have a passport for your home country when things go bad, so don't expect Thailand to pick up the pieces.

 

How many 'Go Fund Me' threads have we had on here? It might be a clue of how tenuous your life in Thailand might be!

 

I'd put it this way.

 

Thailand is great until it's not. After that it can be for many an aging expat a nightmare

Edited October 26, 2023 by GinBoy2

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, GinBoy2 said:

Not sure thats true.

 

I also think it's foolhardy to cut all links to a country to which you are a citizen, and hopefully family to go back to, for a country for which you are at best a long term tourist.

 

Only an fool doesn't have an escape plan should things turn south.

 

At the end of the day you have a passport for your home country when things go bad, so don't expect Thailand to pick up the pieces.

 

How many 'Go Fund Me' threads have we had on here? It might be a clue of how tenuous your life in Thailand might be!

 

I'd put it this way.

 

Thailand is great until it's not. After that it can be for many an aging expat a nightmare

You might want to refresh yourself about the demographic this topic is addressed to. Financially distressed older people that can barely make survival level in the west, maybe even homeless or flirting with it, etc. The arrogant post I was responding to was about much better off people that own homes free and clear, who have a decent additional nest egg beyond what they could get selling that home, etc.

 

Of course, obviously, at whatever your level, expats should try to keep in contact with close people in the home country, if that applies to them.

 

He was talking about something specific -- saying it was always stupid to sell a home back home to fund moving abroad -- and not only is that a totally separate discussion, it obviously isn't always true. It would depend on a person's specific situation. Keeping a far away rental property isn't always worth the hassle and as someone else mentioned, there may be negative tax consequences.

 

Again, this is about the poorer demographic.

 

For example a person with a 800 to 2000 dollar a month pension, who doesn't own a home free and clear, and has some sort of nest egg, at least enough to fly out, get set up, and have an emergency fund.

 

Many such people have already moved abroad. I am suggesting many more in similar poverty levels in the west at the very least explore the options (not only Thailand). Success or failure as an expat isn't necessarily tied to income levels. There are people who succeed well with lower income, and others that fail miserably while being very well funded. So moving abroad isn't for everyone, but I think it's definitely for more people than actually do it.

Edited October 26, 2023 by Jingthing

[EVENKEEL]

Keeping homes in the US as rentals is a pain. I have 2 rentals and the repair bills, taxes and Ins are starting to put a squeeze on my finances. To top it off the stock markets are down so withdrawing 401 K money is a downer.

Thailand is definitely a place for a healthy retiree with limited funds to hang their hat. As has been said before, the unknown is what keeps the majority from making the move to Thailand. Health insurance would be the biggest.... what if?

 

If all you have is $2000./mo SS and no paid for home, life is dismal in the US. No way to afford rent and live in a reasonable manner. 

[Prubangboy]

35 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Keeping homes in the US as rentals is a pain. 

Agreed. It's not a huge money-spinner for us after the agent, air BNB fee etc. It's a giant lump of capital netting out at 4% return. 

 

Plus, we are sick of home (and farm) owning. A one bedroom apartment that the maid cleans is more our old age-style.

 

If we ever went back, we'd buy a small condo. But why would we? Whatever health needs we might have can be done here cheerier for a third the money. We don't have any family ties (or at least no family ties that we're not actively dodging).

 

This doomsday scenario where we must suddenly flee, exodus-style, from Yuppie-Nimman Chiang Mai seems a little drama queeny.

 

End of life-wise, I am moderately covered. My wife is 10 years younger, my best friend is 20 years younger. Someone will (probably) be on hand to sign me into somewhere decent if it comes down to it.

[EVENKEEL]

11 minutes ago, Prubangboy said:

Agreed. It's not a huge money-spinner for us after the agent, air BNB fee etc. It's a giant lump of capital netting out at 4% return. 

 

Plus, we are sick of home (and farm) owning. A one bedroom apartment that the maid cleans is more our old age-style.

 

If we ever went back, we'd buy a small condo. But why would we? Whatever health needs we might have can be done here cheerier for a third the money. We don't have any family ties (or at least no family ties that we're not actively dodging).

 

This doomsday scenario where we must suddenly flee, exodus-style, from Yuppie-Nimman Chiang Mai seems a little drama queeny.

 

End of life-wise, I am moderately covered. My wife is 10 years younger, my best friend is 20 years younger. Someone will (probably) be on hand to sign me into somewhere decent if it comes down to it.

If I didn't have kids I'd maybe sell the lot of RE and live the super good life in Thailand. My kid in Thailand will be set with just one house in the US.