Old age pensions of the World

[freeworld]

People are lucky to get state pensions.

 

In my home country they are not seen as a pension but only as a benefit paid with restrictions

 

No benefit is paid if

One has assets over USD60000

If one is not residing in the country

If one is being cared for in a state institution such as a hospital etc...

 

Oh and one gets taxed fully on worldwide income and assets.

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by freeworld

[Denim]

7 hours ago, georgegeorgia said:

The UK is 67yo but apparently their pension freezes in Thailand,but they can apply from Thailand and no need for them to go back to the UK to apply unlike Australia

The UK is now actually 66. I know because I went back to the UK in August to put in my claim. This so that it appears I reside in the UK and will get any future pension increases. Get my first full payment next week.

[QuantumQuandry]

23 minutes ago, gargamon said:

I considered all that and decided I'd rather live in Thailand where I can get 24/7 one on one support if needed for cheap.

Quality health care at a good private hospital in Thailand isn't cheap, anymore, imo.

[Northstar1]

20 minutes ago, gargamon said:

I see you obviously haven't needed to use the health care system in Canada. Wait until you need to use it. Need a specialist? Get in line and wait months/years to get in to see them. The free long term care consists of them keeping you locked in a room and sedated most of the day. Need the ER? Waits over 10 hours are normal.

 

I considered all that and decided I'd rather live in Thailand where I can get 24/7 one on one support if needed for cheap. And guess what? It never snows in Thailand. 

Cheap health care in Thailand?

where?

government hospitals?

you can’t get coverage as you get older!

I considered that and know for certain where I should be in my retirement years!

no one dies waiting for free medical care in Canada 🇨🇦 

lay off the weed!

Best wishes in your 20 metre fan room  eating rice soup!😂

[Captain Monday]

1 hour ago, Longwood50 said:

The USA social security system is the worlds largest Ponzi scheme.  

There is NO MONEY IN SOCIAL SECURITY as it is structured there can't be. 

1. Money comes into the government and is earmarked as social security
2. Money then is "borrowed" and replaced with IOU's called Treasury Bonds and called "invested"  - So the government owes back to the social security trust fund the money borrowed.
3. The US governement unable to pay its ongoing expenditures borrows more money to pay the interest on the bonds owed to social security

4. All the money from current workers is used to pay the benefits to retired recipients
5. This system is merely accounting smoke and mirrors.  It relys totally on new cash from current workers and borrowed money. 

You can not loan money to yourself and call it invested. It like spending the cash in your left pocket and putting a piece of paper called an IOU in your right pocket and saying, no see I still have the money its invested. 

 

Nice rant. What should I do about it? I never asked for it but as long as I was forced to participate I’ll take my payments. 
 

Otherwise please ask Uncle Sam to return my premiums paid with interest. 

[Longwood50]

16 minutes ago, Captain Monday said:

Nice rant. What should I do about it? I never asked for it but as long as I was forced to participate I’ll take my payments

No you are correct.  It is really nothing but a forced taxation concealed as "contributions"  A contribution is something you do voluntarily.  There is nothing voluntary about your social security "contributions"  

If they were to ever pay you back plus any sort of market interest for the years invested, it would amount to over $1 millon for most people 

 

[Phuketshrew]

54 minutes ago, Denim said:

The UK is now actually 66. I know because I went back to the UK in August to put in my claim. This so that it appears I reside in the UK and will get any future pension increases. Get my first full payment next week.

I think that it changes to 67 after next year. I will be eligible for mine next year at 66, but my sister (2 years younger than me) will have to wait until she is 67.

Edited October 23, 2023 by Phuketshrew

[noobexpat]

55 minutes ago, Denim said:

The UK is now actually 66. I know because I went back to the UK in August to put in my claim.

Its not. 

There is a phasing period depending on your DoB. It can range from age 65 to 68.

The aim is for all younger people to be at 68.

[noobexpat]

51 minutes ago, Northstar1 said:

you can’t get coverage as you get older!

 🇨🇦

Coverage? No thanks. Self insure. 

[Jingthing]

10 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

No you are correct.  It is really nothing but a forced taxation concealed as "contributions"  A contribution is something you do voluntarily.  There is nothing voluntary about your social security "contributions"  

If they were to ever pay you back plus any sort of market interest for the years invested, it would amount to over $1 millon for most people 

 

I call B.S.

The vast majority of people don't have the skills to beat the S.S. payout.

Also the S.S. payout excludes dead people of which there are very many at advanced ages.

That said, the system is quite unfair to demographics of people (particularly black Americans) who statistically die earlier, meaning many more than average never even draw one penny.

[Denim]

14 minutes ago, noobexpat said:

Its not. 

There is a phasing period depending on your DoB. It can range from age 65 to 68.

The aim is for all younger people to be at 68.

Then I can count myself as one of the lucky ones.

[Longwood50]

20 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I call B.S.

The vast majority of people don't have the skills to beat the S.S. payout.

Also the S.S. payout excludes dead people of which there are very many at advanced ages.

That said, the system is quite unfair to demographics of people (particularly black Americans) who statistically die earlier, meaning many more than average never even draw one penny.

You know Jingthing you remind me of a quote from the Seinfeld show where Elaine said to Jerry, just when I think you are the most shallow person in the world you drain just a little more water from the pool. 

However with you, its your comments. 

Social Security could easily be set up to have the contributions "invested" in a balanced fund or perhaps just the S&P 500.  Assuming a person and their employer just contributed $1,000 each year for 40 years and earned the average rate of return on the S&P 500 it would amount to 

 

40

$1,207,188.13

$2,000.00

$130,255.60

$1,337,443.73

 

As to your comment about blacks  Your comment shows you are truly symptomatic of the Dunning Kreuger effect thinking you know far more about subjects than you actually do.  This is the average lifespan by race.  I guess caucasians should feel discriminated against since they live shorter than Hispanic and much shorter than Asian. 

You truly have a mania about "discrimination" or what you perceive as such.  

I am surprised you didn't say that social security was obviously biased against gays since studies have shown that the average gay male dies 20 to 30 years sooner than the average heterosexual male. 

I know this will come as a shock to you but life ain't fair.  Women live longer than men.  Asians live the longest of the racial groups.  People who smoke die on average younger.  Blacks tend to be among the heaviest people by racial group and weight is a huge contributing factor to early death. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by Longwood50

[GarryP]

Still waiting to back-pay into the UK SS system. Applied back in January in order to avoid the cutt-off date and called to follow up. Apparently there is a massive backlog due to impending changes and I shouldn't expect to hear anything before this month or next. The deadlines have been greatly extended though and I was told that as my application was received before the deadline, I had nothing to worry about. Don't know how many years I'll be able to back pay though.   

[noobexpat]

10 minutes ago, Denim said:

Then I can count myself as one of the lucky ones.

In 20 yrs when i get to state pension age (68), god knows what form it may take.

I've planned retirement on the basis of getting £0.

I live in thailand now and will do forever - so i also count myself as a lucky one 😃

 

[Sheryl]

5 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

For guys from the US collecting at age 62 and have kids, they get another check for the kid till it reaches age 18 or older if they attend college.

.Age related SS benefits are not related to the number and age of dependents.

 

There are some specific situations where a dependent child (aged under 18, or aged 18-19 and still in school) can themselves receive a SS benefit tied to the retiree's earning record.

 

 

[GarryP]

29 minutes ago, noobexpat said:

In 20 yrs when i get to state pension age (68), god knows what form it may take.

I've planned retirement on the basis of getting £0.

I live in thailand now and will do forever - so i also count myself as a lucky one 😃

 

I have lived here for 41 years, and still got a few years left before I hit the state pension age. However, I had a good look into the matter and despite having made very few NI contributions, found that I still qualified if I back paid. Obviously, I won't get the full pension, but it is still a really good investment in my case. I would be paying Class 2 Voluntary Contributions, which are Pounds 3.45 per week (179.4 per year). So if they allow me to back pay for 6 years (there is a chance I will be able to pay for more years) I would end up paying Baht 47,840, but hopefully I will be allowed to pay back 12 years and make annual contributions for the next 6.     

 

Gov.uk "The deadline for paying voluntary National Insurance contributions for the tax years 6 April 2006 to 5 April 2018 has been extended to 5 April 2025, if you’re eligible." 

Edited October 23, 2023 by GarryP

[bondjames007]

What about Thailand ? 😀 Interested to know how much my wife will get, with a career spanning 10 years.

[Denim]

27 minutes ago, noobexpat said:

In 20 yrs when i get to state pension age (68), god knows what form it may take.

I've planned retirement on the basis of getting £0.

I live in thailand now and will do forever - so i also count myself as a lucky one 😃

 

Twenty years. I feel for you. By then , when you get to 68 you will have to pay a hefty tax the for having the themerity of living to that age. 

It will be called the disinheritance tax.

[GarryP]

11 minutes ago, bondjames007 said:

What about Thailand ? 😀 Interested to know how much my wife will get, with a career spanning 10 years.

In my case, I have been paying into the social security fund together with my employer for the past 30 years and when I finally retire, which is likely to be next year, I will draw approximately Baht 5,500 per month. So if your wife has only paid in for 10 years, she will get much less than that. On the other hand, if she hasn't paid in at all, she will get the Baht 600/month when she hits 60, which will increase to a whopping 700 when she hits 70.  

[georgegeorgia]

3 hours ago, Northstar1 said:

Being Canadian I too am entitled to 2 pensions.

I can take my Canada pension at 60 at a reduced rate and old age pension at 65.

I can wait till 65 for my Canada pension at full rate.

along with free health care, free prescription drugs, dental work can be deducted from my tax to a certain amount.

free long term care when I need my diapers changed!

along with my work pension.

I feel fortunate to live in Canada 🇨🇦 

Canada sounds the best ,even better than Australia where we have to wait until 67 

[georgegeorgia]

I'm gathering by the info here that some Countries eg America , required you to pay taxes for awhile to get the old age pension when your times comes?

Is this the same with the UK now?

I'm a bit confusing with the UK because some said you needed to make "contributions"? 

 

what if you didn't bother to work all your life eg live in council housing on unemployment benefits 

 

in Australia you don't even have to work all your life eg be on unemployment benefits and still able to access the old age pension at 67 without paying a dime in tax all your life .

 

I mean there's people in Australia who haven't found a job in 20 years ,I'm sure same with the UK 

 

what happens in America with that if you didn't bother to work ,are you still eligible for the old age pension at 62 or whatever age ?

 

So if I didn't bother to work all my life in America say lived in a trailer park or whatever and lived in unemployment welfare benefits (if they have it in America) then I can still get the old age pension at 62?

Edited October 23, 2023 by georgegeorgia

[georgegeorgia]

25 minutes ago, GarryP said:

In my case, I have been paying into the social security fund together with my employer for the past 30 years and when I finally retire, which is likely to be next year, I will draw approximately Baht 5,500 per month. So if your wife has only paid in for 10 years, she will get much less than that. On the other hand, if she hasn't paid in at all, she will get the Baht 600/month when she hits 60, which will increase to a whopping 700 when she hits 70.  

I don't understand this "paying in " to a social Security fund ?

 

Is that like a Superannuation/Retirement account ,your using your own money ?

 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by georgegeorgia

[TheAppletons]

12 hours ago, georgegeorgia said:

what happens in America with that if you didn't bother to work ,are you still eligible for the old age pension at 62 or whatever age ?

 

So if I didn't bother to work all my life in America say lived in a trailer park or whatever and lived in unemployment welfare benefits (if they have it in America) then I can still get the old age pension at 62?

 

  In America, one does not qualify for Social Security retirement payments until one has worked at least 40 quarters (10 years).  

 

  The amount one receives is calculated based upon one's highest 35 years' worth of earnings.  

 

https://www.ssa.gov/myaccount/assets/materials/eligibility-for-benefits.pdf

 

Edit to add:  there are exceptions, of course.  For example, non-working spouses can claim benefits based upon their spouse's lifetime earnings.

Edited October 23, 2023 by TheAppletons

[Sheryl]

Worth noting that US Social Security is not a pension. Which is why future benefit levels are hard to predict. It is not funded by what you paid into it but by a payroll tax being paid by all currently employed persons.

 

[gargamon]

2 hours ago, Northstar1 said:

Cheap health care in Thailand?

where?

government hospitals?

you can’t get coverage as you get older!

I considered that and know for certain where I should be in my retirement years!

no one dies waiting for free medical care in Canada 🇨🇦 

lay off the weed!

Best wishes in your 20 metre fan room  eating rice soup!😂

No. It will be a villa with a private pool. And the food will be whatever I want. Rule #1: don't retire poor. Good luck waiting for medical care in Canada. You're going to need it. 

[gargamon]

2 hours ago, QuantumQuandry said:

Quality health care at a good private hospital in Thailand isn't cheap, anymore, imo.

Compared to what it would cost in the west? Haha. You clearly haven't looked at availability and waiting lists trying to get your shared accommodations. Good luck. 

[QuantumQuandry]

14 minutes ago, gargamon said:

Compared to what it would cost in the west? Haha. You clearly haven't looked at availability and waiting lists trying to get your shared accommodations. Good luck. 

 

It's cheap-ER than the most expensive countries...but it's not cheap.  No need for sarcasm.  Can find more expensive countries, can find cheaper countries.  Thailand is not on the cheap end of the spectrum, anymore, if you want high quality care.

Edited October 23, 2023 by QuantumQuandry

[Old Nomad]

The German "social insurance" provides a pension and nursing care. Pensions are paid in full regardless of where in the world you live and increases are not frozen (as I have heard for UK). There are restrictions for disability pensions. Nursing care is only paid when living in Germany. The retirement age is gradually shifted to 67. One can claim the old-age pension early from the age of 63, but with a deduction of up to 14.4 percent.

[Sheryl]

5 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Old age social security is equivalent to a pension.

A GOVERNMENT pension.

 

It is very much not a pension. It is not a pay out of your contributions (plus your employer's  contributions on your behalf).

 

It is funded through a tax on currently employed people. Today's working people pay for their elders' SS.  Which is exactly why, with numbers of older people rising, there is such uncertainty about future benefits.

 

[jaideedave]

3 hours ago, gargamon said:

I see you obviously haven't needed to use the health care system in Canada. Wait until you need to use it. Need a specialist? Get in line and wait months/years to get in to see them. The free long term care consists of them keeping you locked in a room and sedated most of the day. Need the ER? Waits over 10 hours are normal.

 

I considered all that and decided I'd rather live in Thailand where I can get 24/7 one on one support if needed for cheap. And guess what? It never snows in Thailand. 

I left Cda in 2004 and moved to LOS permenantly.I will never go back and besides I wouldn't fit in with what I see on the telly these days.

I have med insurance here and have used both private and govt hospitals with no issues.