Old age pensions of the World

[Jingthing]

14 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

It is very much not a pension. It is not a pay out of your contributions (plus your employer's  contributions on your behalf).

 

It is funded through a tax on currently employed people. Today's working people pay for their elders' SS.  Which is exactly why, with numbers of older people rising, there is such uncertainty about future benefits.

 

In the context of THIS topic it is a government pension.

Why?

Because retired expat destination nations that specifically require a government pension always accept it as that.

Depending on the nation you might qualify for permanent residence based on your social security government pension with the current level accepted as secure lifetime income. Yes potentially social security benefits can be cut but that's academic if you've already qualified for permanent residence.  

 

Keep in mind this topic is not only about Thailand. Obviously Thailand income is based on current income and they don't specifically require income to be a government pension. Each country offering  an expat retirement option obviously has specific rules. But again if they're requiring a government pension social security will always be accepted as a government pension whether it technically is or not.

So assuming it's not for this topic that simply doesn't matter.

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by Jingthing

[1happykamper]

Interesting topic for many here. 

I'm curious too.... 

 

I now collect a USA pension after working there 38 years. 

 

I was born July 1951 in the UK... I worked for only 6 years there..low wages. Do I qualify for a UK pension? 

 

Hmmmm....

[GarryP]

1 hour ago, georgegeorgia said:

I don't understand this "paying in " to a social Security fund ?

 

Is that like a Superannuation/Retirement account ,your using your own money ?

 

 

 

About Baht 750 is deducted from your salary and your employer pays an equal amount. This money is held in the Social Security Fund, which is overseen by the Socioal Security Office. Upon retirement, assuming you have paid in for a sufficient number of years, you will be entitled to a monthly pension. In certain instances, you may be entitled to the choice of a lump sum, or monthly pension, while for some others there is only the lump sum option. In my case, I only have the monthly pension option. The accumulated amount saved in my name is Baht 236,929, so assuming I don't pop my clogs, that will cover a monthly payment of Baht 5,500 for 43 months or 3 years and 7 months, however, the SSF will actually continue paying me until I die. This is one of the reasons that there are concerns that the fund may collapse, i.e. due to insufficient funding and aging population

[GarryP]

4 minutes ago, 1happykamper said:

Interesting topic for many here. 

I'm curious too.... 

 

I now collect a USA pension after working there 38 years. 

 

I was born July 1951 in the UK... I worked for only 6 years there..low wages. Do I qualify for a UK pension? 

 

Hmmmm....

No idea. Check out this link. https://www.gov.uk/voluntary-national-insurance-contributions

[Sheryl]

A question for those fro mthe UK:

 

What on earth is the difference between a "state pension" and a government pension? I see the distinction in the UK-Thai DTA but have no idea what it means, to me a "state pension" and a "government pension" would mean the same thing. ???

[Brick Top]

In the UK , I was self employed from 1982 to retiring here in 2004. I had paid over £400,000 in income tax. 

I am entitled to receive my UK pension when I am 66 next year, when I checked I was entitled to £76 a week. I was told I had missing weeks in my National Insurance records.

So I back paid from my own money £13,800 , now i am still not entitled to full pension as some years prior to 2006 I only had 49, 50 and 51 weeks instead of 52. Those shortfalls cant be paid as can only go back to 2006. This means I will still only have 32 full years instead of the 35 full years to get the full state pension. Whilst those who have either never worked or been in the role must of there life will get the full state pension.

Then on top of this UK pensions are frozen from the date you reach retirement age if you reside in Thailand.

This is the UK Government for you , totol shambles

[Brick Top]

8 hours ago, gearbox said:

Depends on the point of view...it is the best pension for freeloaders and dole bludgers. You can get it without working a single day.

Same as the UK , freeloaders win hands down 

[mania]

12 hours ago, Jingthing said:

About the U.S. age 62 thing. At that age you get reduced by 25 percent pay and that's in effect for life, so not as great as you might think. Full payout varies by birthday but is roughly 66. Wait until 70 and you get more.

That's the line they hope you'll bite 😉

 

But do  a proforma & see it basically washes either way

 

Use a simple example like 1k at age 62

Then see what you made & then start the 66 or 70 version with their payout

Remember to pay back first what the guy at 62 already got before you start to calc the greater benefit  of waiting😉

Edited October 23, 2023 by mania

[GarryP]

8 minutes ago, Brick Top said:

In the UK , I was self employed from 1982 to retiring here in 2004. I had paid over £400,000 in income tax. 

I am entitled to receive my UK pension when I am 66 next year, when I checked I was entitled to £76 a week. I was told I had missing weeks in my National Insurance records.

So I back paid from my own money £13,800 , now i am still not entitled to full pension as some years prior to 2006 I only had 49, 50 and 51 weeks instead of 52. Those shortfalls cant be paid as can only go back to 2006. This means I will still only have 32 full years instead of the 35 full years to get the full state pension. Whilst those who have either never worked or been in the role must of there life will get the full state pension.

Then on top of this UK pensions are frozen from the date you reach retirement age if you reside in Thailand.

This is the UK Government for you , totol shambles

That sucks. Totally unfair. 

[wwest5829]

12 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I recall Japan pays out massively but not sure about the age required.

Norway pays medical bills for expats. 

I don't have the link now but I recently saw an article which ranked national retirement systems and the U.S. ranked in the middle as average.

Though I can see your angle is expat friendly retirement systems. 

That would be interesting to see a detailed report on that.

About the U.S. age 62 thing. At that age you get reduced by 25 percent pay and that's in effect for life, so not as great as you might think. Full payout varies by birthday but is roughly 66. Wait until 70 and you get more.

Agree with your observations. I retired here in 2011 at age 64 1/2 as I was on the academic year calendar and having had 5 by-passes in 2005, I did not want to wait another year before retiring. I do count myself fortunate in my U.S. Social Security continuing and receiving the annual cost of living adjustments. Not as fortunate in getting Medicare coverage as supplied to fully retired military retirees. US Social Security is based on lifetime earnings … a large reason why I cannot retire in my own country.

[Jingthing]

13 minutes ago, mania said:

That's the line they hope you'll bite 😉

 

But do  a proforma & see it basically washes either way

 

Use a simple example like 1k at age 62

Then see what you made & then start the 66 or 70 version with their payout

Remember to pay back first what the guy at 62 already got before you start to calc the greater benefit  of waiting😉

I claimed at 62.

Time will tell of the wisdom or folly of that.

[wwest5829]

7 hours ago, In Full Agreement said:

 

Are you paying into the Medicare system?

 

I am paying monthly, as do US military retirees. They get global medical coverage, I get zip (I will continue to support the military retirees rights, I just want equal coverage). The monthly premium I view as insurance in case of need to return to the U.S. for major medical … I have strong doubts if, in fact, that is a smart decision as there would co-pays and deductibles. 

[KhunLA]

18 minutes ago, mania said:

That's the line they hope you'll bite 😉

 

But do  a proforma & see it basically washes either way

 

Use a simple example like 1k at age 62

Then see what you made & then start the 66 or 70 version with their payout

Remember to pay back first what the guy at 62 already got before you start to calc the greater benefit  of waiting😉

I took company pension early, as rolling the dice, that I'll crap out before 75.   Live longer, and it was a bad idea, but only about 12.5k a month at 35.5/$1. loss.

 

Soc Sec was irrelevant, as been collecting (disability) for 22+ yrs, since 46 yrs old.

 

Agree, they want you to wait, as they know, most will die.  I've posted this before, and accurate #s from IAM union.  I know they disperse 18 months of retirement checks on average to NWA employees, (now DL) and in my job classification, only 11 months worth 😲  Meaning most would not have made it to my age.

 

That's why retirement funds are underfunded, (for those thinking about 70s & 80s) as they know, they'll never never need to pay out that much.

[charleskerins]

8 hours ago, Captain Monday said:

US social security is NOT a pension it is more of a mandatory insurance policy.

 

We can argue over the terminology like everything else and can call it what you want as long as you understand the rules. In my case by the time I had a decent job they had rolled out got these 401k/Roth programs in most of my industry so I will never get a "pension".  Deciding to when start taking SS payments is a gamble. Medicare something I'll probably never use. America sucks.

What does it insure? It works like a pension  ,payments based on what you paid and worked.  

[wwest5829]

6 hours ago, Captain Monday said:

Of course, automatically deducted every month along with other deductions, and a huge chunk of income tax wasted on who knows what. Problem It is not portable internationally after I retire I plan NEVER to go there again !

I pay also but this Medicare, Part b coverage is voluntary, we can chose not to have this hospitalization coverage.

[Captain Monday]

9 minutes ago, charleskerins said:

What does it insure? It works like a pension  ,payments based on what you paid and worked.  

No No, It is not paid on what you paid and worked.

 

I don't wish to hold forth to argumenst  over definitions but as explained to me by EXPERTS in the subject of USA retirement and benefit programmes it is more akin to a life assurance product than a pension. I do know a few people who are enrolled to get private pensions in my industry and it sounds great. One problem historically in our industry is company declring bankruptcy and workers lose everything.

 

At least the funds in the 401k/Roth/Medical saving plan are MY monies.

Edited October 23, 2023 by Captain Monday

[Captain Monday]

3 minutes ago, wwest5829 said:

I pay also but this Medicare, Part b coverage is voluntary, we can chose not to have this hospitalization coverage.

I'm still working. Prt B coverage is a decision for the future which I will base on a plan never setting foot in the Gun/God/Freedumb entity ever again after retirement.

[wwest5829]

6 hours ago, KhunLA said:

NOT A TRUMP VS BIDEN CONVERSATION (PLENTY OF THOSE) just an observation of administrations and debt increases.  All things, including interest & inflation affects our buying power, where ever we live.

 

And for those Yanks keeping score, inflation vs COLA, aren't even close.  Inflation easily 100-150% since 2000.   So spend it now, as worth less tomorrow 😎

 

-0- inflation, that's just insulting

 

Why I love Biden and hope for a win in 2024 🤣

(COLA = 17.8 % + 25% (exchange rate)

2024 - 3.2%

 

Along w/better exchange rate, for whatever reason

 

 

Th President does not determine the Cola adjustment. Presidents can influence and support the Social Security or not. Good example was beginning to tax Social Security payments under President Reagan.

[charleskerins]

3 minutes ago, Captain Monday said:

No No, It is not paid on what you paid and worked.

 

I don't wish to hold forth to an argument  over definitions but as explained to me by EXPERTS in the subject of USA retirement and benefit programmes it is more akin to a life assurance product. 

It has nothing to do with life insurance and yes it is paid on what you paid and worked.You receive a statement with every year you worked and how much you made in Social Security earnings.  You can capitalize experts but they are incorrect.

[charleskerins]

5 minutes ago, wwest5829 said:

Th President does not determine the Cola adjustment. Presidents can influence and support the Social Security or not. Good example was beginning to tax Social Security payments under President Reagan.

Good ole Ronnie Raygun stealing from Social Security.

[Captain Monday]

12 minutes ago, charleskerins said:

It has nothing to do with life insurance and yes it is paid on what you paid and worked.You receive a statement with every year you worked and how much you made in Social Security earnings.  You can capitalize experts but they are incorrect.

You sound as  if you know a lot about the subject. Are there private pensions in the US that pay more you per month if you delay payments, ie start taking them at 70 then 62 regardless when you retired? Pensions that offset your benefit if you have another pension?

 

Are there pensions that pay your wife a benefit after U die for being married to you even if she never worked a day in her life?

 

For me taking it at 62 is not much waiting till 70 seems like plenty to live in Thailand. I'd rather take my chances and take it ASAP knowing I could popp my clogs or even be hit by a bus what "brakes failed" any day now ....

Edited October 23, 2023 by Captain Monday

[KhunLA]

8 minutes ago, wwest5829 said:

Th President does not determine the Cola adjustment. Presidents can influence and support the Social Security or not. Good example was beginning to tax Social Security payments under President Reagan.

I know that.

I just didn't want it to turn into a political sh!t show thread, and thankfully it didn't.

 

THANKS FOLKS for refraining from those thoughts 👍

[khunPer]

12 hours ago, georgegeorgia said:

Not sure about Ireland

Denmark , Sweden ,Germany please tell , 

Denmark:

At the moment you can retire at 67 (born 1st July 1955 or later), but the age will go up over time, for example 68 years from 2030(born 1st January 1963 or later), 69 from 2035 and so on. It's based on having 15 years in average to live after retirement.

 

To be eligible for full government pension – called "folkepension", i.e. "peoples retirement pension" – you need to have been living in Denmark for at least 3 years between the age of 15 and retirement age. If you have not lived in the country for 40 years between the age of 15 and retirement age, you will not receive the full pension, but a fractional pension in 40th, depending of the number of years you have lived in the country; for example 30/40th of the full rate, if you have lived only 30 years in Denmark.

 

The folkepension is based on a base sum, which is 6,694 dkk (Danish kroner), which equals about $950 ($1 = 7.04 dkk), before income tax. After tax it's 5,562 dkk (circa $790) with normal personal allowance deductions. The folkepension is regulated, so it partly follows other salaries, but not fully and with a delay (I think it's two years). So in years with high inflation, you have less buying power.

 

If you don't have other income, you can get extra government pay up to 7,745 dkk ($1,100) as single, or 3,963 dkk ($550) each when married, before income tax. The income tax depending on where you live in the country, but is in general around 38 % for retirees, so after tax around $680 extra for a single, or $340 each when married. Additional income will be partly deducted in the surplus. Furthermore, low incomes without major savings, can get an additional "old age cheque" of 19,200 dkk ($2,700) before tax, once in a year; i.e. around $1,690 after average income tax.

 

If you wish to move abroad to a country outside EU (European Union) and EEC (European Economic Community), you will only get the base sum. So if you move to Thailand – like me – you will only get 5,562 per month (in 2023) – provided you, like I, has lived at 40 years or longer in Denmark – which equals to 28,000 baht per month by the at moment quite favorable exchange rate (1 dkk = 5.10 thb).

 

If you have no other income or private retirement pensions, it's small money, but still doable with en modest life-style; however, provided that you one or other way had the savings for deposit to extend your stay based on retirement or marriage.

 

So, moving to Thailand as a Dane with nothing more than the base government pension for living costs, is pretty much a question of health, as you need to take any fees for a health insurance out of the budget. When you move out from Denmark, you are not and longer covered by the free government health service. You need to permanently move back to be covered again.

 

It's doable to retire in Thailand on the folkepension-base with a modest life-style, but I recommend Danes to think twice, before they do it without any further income or savings.

[wwest5829]

23 minutes ago, Captain Monday said:

I'm still working. Prt B coverage is a decision for the future which I will base on a plan never setting foot in the Gun/God/Freedumb entity ever again after retirement.

I have only kept it in case of cancer, Parkinson’s, etc. tThe chances of any major disaster are diminishing. Living full time in Thailand, keeping the premium would be of substantial income benefit. Complication would cancel my employment Advantage program.

Edited October 23, 2023 by wwest5829

[wwest5829]

17 minutes ago, charleskerins said:

Good ole Ronnie Raygun stealing from Social Security.

I do not focus on who is President but rather the Congress members who, in the majority pass such legislation. Today the attack on Social Security and Medice is coming from?

[Captain Monday]

14 minutes ago, khunPer said:

Denmark:

At the moment you can retire at 67 (born 1st July 1955 or later), but the age will go up over time, for example 68 years from 2030(born 1st January 1963 or later), 69 from 2035 and so on. It's based on having 15 years in average to live after retirement.

 

To be eligible for full government pension – called "folkepension", i.e. "peoples retirement pension" – you need to have been living in Denmark for at least 3 years between the age of 15 and retirement age. If you have not lived in the country for 40 years between the age of 15 and retirement age, you will not receive the full pension, but a fractional pension in 40th, depending of the number of years you have lived in the country; for example 30/40th of the full rate, if you have lived only 30 years in Denmark.

 

The folkepension is based on a base sum, which is 6,694 dkk (Danish kroner), which equals about $950 ($1 = 7.04 dkk), before income tax. After tax it's 5,562 dkk (circa $790) with normal personal allowance deductions. The folkepension is regulated, so it partly follows other salaries, but not fully and with a delay (I think it's two years). So in years with high inflation, you have less buying power.

 

If you don't have other income, you can get extra government pay up to 7,745 dkk ($1,100) as single, or 3,963 dkk ($550) each when married, before income tax. The income tax depending on where you live in the country, but is in general around 38 % for retirees, so after tax around $680 extra for a single, or $340 each when married. Additional income will be partly deducted in the surplus. Furthermore, low incomes without major savings, can get an additional "old age cheque" of 19,200 dkk ($2,700) before tax, once in a year; i.e. around $1,690 after average income tax.

 

If you wish to move abroad to a country outside EU (European Union) and EEC (European Economic Community), you will only get the base sum. So if you move to Thailand – like me – you will only get 5,562 per month (in 2023) – provided you, like I, has lived at 40 years or longer in Denmark – which equals to 28,000 baht per month by the at moment quite favorable exchange rate (1 dkk = 5.10 thb).

 

If you have no other income or private retirement pensions, it's small money, but still doable with en modest life-style; however, provided that you one or other way had the savings for deposit to extend your stay based on retirement or marriage.

 

So, moving to Thailand as a Dane with nothing more than the base government pension for living costs, is pretty much a question of health, as you need to take any fees for a health insurance out of the budget. When you move out from Denmark, you are not and longer covered by the free government health service. You need to permanently move back to be covered again.

 

It's doable to retire in Thailand on the folkepension-base with a modest life-style, but I recommend Danes to think twice, before they do it without any further income or savings.

Did you have to pay premiums, ie we’re wages deducted during your working life as a requirement to be included in the folkepension?

[noobexpat]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

A question for those fro mthe UK:

 

What on earth is the difference between a "state pension" and a government pension? I see the distinction in the UK-Thai DTA but have no idea what it means, to me a "state pension" and a "government pension" would mean the same thing. ???

 

Govt pension is when you worked for the govt: LGPS is the name of their scheme. 

 

State pension is accumulated via national insurance contributions.

[charleskerins]

17 minutes ago, Captain Monday said:

You sound as  if you know a lot about the subject. Are there private pensions in the US that pay more you per month if you delay payments, ie start taking them at 70 then 62 regardless when you retired? Pensions that offset your benefit if you have another pension?

 

Are there pensions that pay your wife a benefit after U die for being married to you even if she never worked a day in her life?

 

For me taking it at 62 is not much waiting till 70 seems like plenty to live in Thailand. I'd rather take my chances and take it ASAP knowing I could popp my clogs or even be hit by a bus what "brakes failed" any day now ....

You sound like a polite and civil fellow.Would be happy to answer your questions regarding these questions for the answers  that I know. Most of the  people I know  wait to take Social Security till they are at least 66 some till they are 70 ,I took mine early (62) because of what you stated above plus I had a political disagreement with my employer at that time and I was unemployed for a while. Yes there are pensions that pay your beneficiary  it depends on the pension.  there is something called a lump sum on some pensions which besides a monthly benefit you can also withdraw a "lump sum"  which reduces the monthly benefit BUT smart peopleIi knew took the lump sum and bought a large cheap term insurance policy for their wife. No the pensions don't offset there are people collecting 3 pensions in the US.   fire away I am in the Hills of Thailand !

[charleskerins]

10 minutes ago, wwest5829 said:

I do not focus on who is President but rather the Congress members who, in the majority pass such legislation. Today the attack on Social Security and Medice is coming from?

that no good Rick Scott Florida            R's have never done a damn thing for the working people of America.

[Brick Top]

3 hours ago, 1happykamper said:

Interesting topic for many here. 

I'm curious too.... 

 

I now collect a USA pension after working there 38 years. 

 

I was born July 1951 in the UK... I worked for only 6 years there..low wages. Do I qualify for a UK pension? 

 

Hmmmm....

You would then have only 6 years of NI contributions , you require 35 full years to receive the full UK state pension