Hezbollah leader threatens to escalate Israel-Hamas war to protect Gaza

[SpaceKadet]

On 11/4/2023 at 8:04 AM, Wobblybob said:

The only people that can stop this war is the perpetrators that started it, releasing the hostages would go a long way to helping and I'm sure that like me you don't want the evil sadists who have committed these vile acts to go free. Would that be a fair summary. Let's not blame the victims here, the finger should be pointing at the perpetrators.

Which are what? Israel, trough its senseless oppressions of Gaza? Remember this?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10195838

 

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

One, Israel's policies in the West Bank are part government, and part illegal settlers doing their thing to the extant the government lets them. This government is the most right wing Israel had, hence. Two, the PA is often described by Palestinians as collaborating with Israel, especially on security issues. There's quite a lot of arms, equipment and training going into this. So yes, it does have the power to stifle things, or to let them loose - a card which the PA often plays, or threatens to play. It could do more, of course, but at the price of clashing with either Hamas or local clans. So the level of control it can exert is somewhat location dependent.

 

 

The PA is already suspect by the locals as a collaborator with Israel. Were it ti crack down too hard on the locals it would lose what little legitimacy it has.

[Morch]

9 minutes ago, placeholder said:

The PA is already suspect by the locals as a collaborator with Israel. Were it ti crack down too hard on the locals it would lose what little legitimacy it has.

 

I thought it was implied well enough in my post. The question was if the PA can stifle terrorism - and the answer was that it already does, to a point. It could do more, at a cost.

 

But, of course, this last bit of exchange is just one of your usual nonsense arguments - see my original comment on this and note how you take things out of context. I mentioned 'no terrorism' as the sort of precondition to negotiations which would inevitably cause them to stall. A mirror image of the hypothetical condition you set in your original post.

[thaibeachlovers]

20 hours ago, coolcarer said:

You’ve got that seriously mixed up there apologist. Hamas are the terrorists and it’s the IDF that should fear capture by them. 

Yes they should fear capture. There's a whole lot of anger built up in their lifetime of oppression by israelis, and they will want to kill as many as they can before they are killed.

[thaibeachlovers]

21 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

It is just a matter of time.

 

Israel will beat Hamas. The question then is the followup.

300,000 israelis against not that many Hamas, lots of tanks and artillery, aircraft bombing, drones, electronic sensors etc while Hamas has none of that. Unless world pressure causes Biden to force them to a ceasefire obviously the israelis will win. It's just a question of how many israelis they take with them.

 

Ah the follow up- then the real horror will happen. It's going to be so vile I don't even want to put it in words.

What I can venture to guess is that IMO the West Bank is next, and they have been provoking the Palestinians non stop to give them the excuse to bomb them to bits as well.

 

After that, IMO, the israelis will find that the war has been exported against israelis outside the protection of israel.

[thaibeachlovers]

20 hours ago, Thorgal said:

 

You could see the online video postings of Hamas destroying in Gaza between 2 to 5 Merkava's/AIFV's/Cat per day with their DIY RPG's.

 

Gaza city might be surrounded but it's a graveyard of a mechanized brigade. Israeli KIA toll is estimated to 34 as per Israeli press.

https://www.thejc.com/news/israel/idf-death-toll-reaches-34-as-second-week-of-gaza-ground-operation-begins-3kXq93WRvIMA6LhmbFYyAE

 

Out of the estimated +/-40.000 Hamas militants there are no reports available of how many have been eliminated since the start of the IDF ground offensive? You might conquer perhaps an area, but you didn't conquer your enemy...

It's hard to find a site that gives israeli soldier deaths in Gaza, but I found this from the 6th of November.

 

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/another-israeli-soldier-killed-in-gaza-death-toll-rises-to-30/3045259

Israel said 30 soldiers have been killed and 260 others injured since it began expanded ground operations in the Gaza Strip on Oct. 27.

 

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It's hard to find a site that gives israeli soldier deaths in Gaza, but I found this from the 6th of November.

 

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/another-israeli-soldier-killed-in-gaza-death-toll-rises-to-30/3045259

Israel said 30 soldiers have been killed and 260 others injured since it began expanded ground operations in the Gaza Strip on Oct. 27.

 

Very easy actual if you go to the official IDF website and numerous media outlets that quote the figures from there:

 

https://www.idf.il/en

[thaibeachlovers]

14 hours ago, billd766 said:

Actually he was not fired at all, Merely suspended.

 

Suspended is NOT FIRED.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/05/world/middleeast/amichay-eliyahu-israel-minister-nuclear-bomb-gaza.html#:~:text=Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel took the highly unusual,with the threat from Hamas.

 

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel took the highly unusual step on Sunday of suspending a far-right minister from his government, after the minister said that dropping a nuclear bomb on Gaza and killing everyone there was “one way” of dealing with 

the threat from Hamas.

Mr. Netanyahu’s swift action came amid an immediate and broad outcry over the comments made on Sunday morning by Amichay Eliyahu, the minister of heritage from the ultranationalist Jewish Power party. In his remarks, made to a Hebrew radio station, Mr. Eliyahu also said that there was no such thing as noncombatants in Gaza. 

Still, his abrupt suspension appeared to reflect Mr. Netanyahu’s concerns both over the low levels of public confidence in his leadership, as shown by recent opinion polls, and the challenges Israel faces in maintaining international support amid its assault in Gaza, particularly given the high civilian death toll there.

In a statement on Sunday, Mr. Netanyahu called Mr. Eliyahu’s remarks “disconnected from reality.” Israel and its military “act according to the highest standards of international law in order to prevent harm to noncombatants, and we will continue to do so until victory,” he added.

Interesting comment from a guest on Al Jazeera, that the minister was suspended for admitting that israel had nuclear weapons, something they always deny.

 

In a statement on Sunday, Mr. Netanyahu called Mr. Eliyahu’s remarks “disconnected from reality.” Israel and its military “act according to the highest standards of international law in order to prevent harm to noncombatants, and we will continue to do so until victory,” he added.

 

Does anyone on the planet actually believe that lie? 10,000 non combatants dead and many thousand more wounded says otherwise.

His "victory" is over the bodies of many many thousands of non combatants.

 

Apparently Eliyahu thinks 10 year old kids are terrorists as there have been quite a lot of them ( and younger ) killed and missing ( code for buried in the rubble of their homes ). More than 3,000 apparently.

 

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Interesting comment from a guest on Al Jazeera, that the minister was suspended for admitting that israel had nuclear weapons, something they always deny.

 

In a statement on Sunday, Mr. Netanyahu called Mr. Eliyahu’s remarks “disconnected from reality.” Israel and its military “act according to the highest standards of international law in order to prevent harm to noncombatants, and we will continue to do so until victory,” he added.

 

Does anyone on the planet actually believe that lie? 10,000 non combatants dead and many thousand more wounded says otherwise.

His "victory" is over the bodies of many many thousands of non combatants.

 

Apparently Eliyahu thinks 10 year old kids are terrorists as there have been quite a lot of them ( and younger ) killed and missing ( code for buried in the rubble of their homes ). More than 3,000 apparently.

 

How many of the dead were Hamas fighters? Israel says 1000's but you believe Hamas figures

[Morch]

54 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

300,000 israelis against not that many Hamas, lots of tanks and artillery, aircraft bombing, drones, electronic sensors etc while Hamas has none of that. Unless world pressure causes Biden to force them to a ceasefire obviously the israelis will win. It's just a question of how many israelis they take with them.

 

Ah the follow up- then the real horror will happen. It's going to be so vile I don't even want to put it in words.

What I can venture to guess is that IMO the West Bank is next, and they have been provoking the Palestinians non stop to give them the excuse to bomb them to bits as well.

 

After that, IMO, the israelis will find that the war has been exported against israelis outside the protection of israel.

 

Just a few days back you claimed you're usually not making predictions of the future.....

[Morch]

29 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Interesting comment from a guest on Al Jazeera, that the minister was suspended for admitting that israel had nuclear weapons, something they always deny.

 

In a statement on Sunday, Mr. Netanyahu called Mr. Eliyahu’s remarks “disconnected from reality.” Israel and its military “act according to the highest standards of international law in order to prevent harm to noncombatants, and we will continue to do so until victory,” he added.

 

Does anyone on the planet actually believe that lie? 10,000 non combatants dead and many thousand more wounded says otherwise.

His "victory" is over the bodies of many many thousands of non combatants.

 

Apparently Eliyahu thinks 10 year old kids are terrorists as there have been quite a lot of them ( and younger ) killed and missing ( code for buried in the rubble of their homes ). More than 3,000 apparently.

 

 

Quite amusing how much hot air you have when a junior Israeli minister flaps his trap, and yet constantly ignore Hamas leaders' outrageous public statements.

[billd766]

3 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Very easy actual if you go to the official IDF website and numerous media outlets that quote the figures from there:

 

https://www.idf.il/en

To do that you have to believe that the Israeli government and the IDF are as pure white as the New York slush at the end of a day.

 

I gave up believing all governments and military spokespersons decades ago. They all put a favourable spin for themselves whether it is the truth or simply propaganda.

 

3 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

How many of the dead were Hamas fighters? Israel says 1000's but you believe Hamas figures

Yet you seem to believe Israel's figures and accept them without question.

 

A simple question for you. If you see a dead Palestinian man, woman or child on a street , how can you tell if the body was a Hamas "terrorist"/"freedom fighter" or simply an innocent victim.

 

You could ask a local who will tell you one thing, or an IDF soldier who will tell you something else, or you could ask a news reporter (if there any left alive in Gaza), who may tell you something else.

 

Now which one of them would be telling the truth?

 

Remember, you and you alone have to decide, and you have no idea about the dead person at all.

Edited November 8, 2023 by billd766
added punctuation marks

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, billd766 said:

To do that you have to believe that the Israeli government and the IDF are as pure white as the New York slush at the end of a day.

 

I gave up believing all governments and military spokespersons decades ago. They all put a favourable spin for themselves whether it is the truth or simply propaganda.

 

Yet you seem to believe Israel's figures and accept them without question.

 

A simple question for you. If you see a dead Palestinian man, woman or child on a street , how can you tell if the body was a Hamas "terrorist"/"freedom fighter" or simply and innocent.

 

You could ask a local who will tell you one thing, or an IDF soldier who will tell you something else, or you could ask a news reporter (if there any left alive in Gaza).. who may tell you something else.

 

Now which one of them would be telling the truth.

 

Remember, you and you alone have to decide, and you have no idea about the dead person at all.

The poster I was responding to said he was having difficulty finding causality figures for IDF, I gave him the direct source. Whether you believe it or not is up to you, I really don't care.

 

The below includes those killed on the 7th

"To date, we have notified the families of 348 soldiers who fell in battle since October 7th."

https://www.idf.il/en/mini-sites/idf-recaps-daily-summaries-of-the-hamas-israel-war/daily-recap-hamas-israel-war-november-6th-2023-day-31/

[Morch]

3 hours ago, billd766 said:

To do that you have to believe that the Israeli government and the IDF are as pure white as the New York slush at the end of a day.

 

I gave up believing all governments and military spokespersons decades ago. They all put a favourable spin for themselves whether it is the truth or simply propaganda.

 

Yet you seem to believe Israel's figures and accept them without question.

 

A simple question for you. If you see a dead Palestinian man, woman or child on a street , how can you tell if the body was a Hamas "terrorist"/"freedom fighter" or simply an innocent victim.

 

You could ask a local who will tell you one thing, or an IDF soldier who will tell you something else, or you could ask a news reporter (if there any left alive in Gaza), who may tell you something else.

 

Now which one of them would be telling the truth?

 

Remember, you and you alone have to decide, and you have no idea about the dead person at all.

 

Israel and the IDF release exact information on Israelis killed. Names, pictures, ages, and whether they were soldiers.

The information is readily available, and easy to verify.

 

As for Hamas - they simply do not release information about how many of their men died, at least not during the fighting. The also do as much as they can to avoid giving casualty figures by age brackets (one may assume that 18-40 would qualify as potentially relevant Hamas men). They do release such figures regarding children and women, for propaganda reasons. Also, it is not clear at this point if the casualty lists offered by Hamas include all of the Hamas men killed during and right after the 7/10 attack (estimated on offer are at around 1500-2000), and casualties caused by their own actions (such as the hospital blast, in which they claimed 500 lost their lives).

 

[Danderman123]

On 11/7/2023 at 7:16 PM, SpaceKadet said:

Which are what? Israel, trough its senseless oppressions of Gaza? Remember this?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10195838

 

Do you agree that the Israeli response to October 7 was predictable?

 

If so, what has Hamas done to protect the people of Gaza from the predictable Israeli response to October 7?

Edited November 13, 2023 by Danderman123