Bitkub is asking for KYC again. After logging in KYC is disabled for foreigners....

[Conno]

WOW $12 entry. I thought I was doing well around $4000 lol. I was a bit late with the penny dropping moment. 

 

Completely agree with the $12 to $1000 mindset. Exactly the same thing applies today. If or when it hits $1m per coin people will look back and say why didn't I see this coming when it was around $30k. I also feel people are going to feel good about themselves if they manage to accumulate 100,000 Sats never mind a whole coin. 8+ billion people on the planet, 21 million coins. The first and only truly deflationary financial commodity EVER in the history of civilization. People still just don't get it and by the time they do it will have left the majority behind. 

 

Thailand will have to eventually backtrack on the ruling that it can't be used as payment for goods and services or get left behind. Yea I think the first stages of the next Bull cycle has arrived. Watch the fireworks when the USA SEC concedes and approves that long list of Spot BTC ETF applications. It seems the odds are high for that to be announced in the next couple of months.   

[YaDongImproved]

Bitkub should be sued for that next week by a foreigner to my knowledge.

[JBChiangRai]

Bitkub sent me another email changing their T’s & C’s, mostly around allowing them to disclose transaction history to other companies and authorities.

 

I replied saying that’s fine for future transactions but I won’t accept any changes to T’s & C’s for historical transactions.

[advancebooking]

13 hours ago, ukrules said:

UpBit Thailand tell me you can 'dip chip' register using the passport but I haven't tried that yet - I have until December to do it - will probably give it a go in a few weeks time.

 

After trying can you please reply to this thread and let everyone know. It will help a lot of people

thanks

[advancebooking]

9 hours ago, YaDongImproved said:

Bitkub should be sued for that next week by a foreigner to my knowledge.

are you saying that a foreigner is going to sue bitkub

[JeffersLos]

As long as we can keep what we already bought and store on BK, and then sell them and cash out to our Thai bank account it's okay for me. I'm not interested in trading on it or buying more through them. 

[Conno]

5 hours ago, JeffersLos said:

As long as we can keep what we already bought and store on BK, and then sell them and cash out to our Thai bank account it's okay for me. I'm not interested in trading on it or buying more through them. 

My advice would be to learn how to withdraw and self custody with a Ledger/Trezor and transfer back onto the platform whenever you wish to sell. It isn't that difficult to do and you are taking an unnecessary risk storing your coins on the exchange. I will endeavor to keep my account active for when or if the day ever arrives I decide to cash out. However like yourself I will not be using them again to buy. I will continue to look for an alternative approved route/exchange that accepts Baht transfers and will share if I discover one. Likewise, if anyone else finds an alternative I would appreciate if you could also share it on here. As mentioned previously, with luck Gulf Binance will launch in the not too distant future and that has to be a better option than Bitkub, or at least I don't believe they can be worse. 

 

14 hours ago, YaDongImproved said:

Bitkub should be sued for that next week by a foreigner to my knowledge.

Id also be interested in learning more details about this. 

[ukrules]

5 hours ago, JeffersLos said:

As long as we can keep what we already bought and store on BK, and then sell them and cash out to our Thai bank account it's okay for me. I'm not interested in trading on it or buying more through them. 

 

I would withdraw them to a local computer then keep a few backups of the encrypted wallet files.

 

I keep all important data in encrypted volumes so it's encrypted and then hidden inside an encrypted volume - these are safe to mail to 'safe places' around the world as occasional backups and nobody will ever be able to access them if you do it right.

 

Doing it right is easy with the correct software, I use Bestcrypt by Jetico.

[JBChiangRai]

Thai authorities don't have a history of trusting anyone, let alone foreigners.

 

The problem with Crypto exchanges like BitKub & Satang Pro is that on/off ramps to Thai baht means that the country's Currency Exchange Controls can be defeated.  People can bring in Crypto bought overseas or worse, take their money out the country.

 

BitKub asks you to be a gentleman and not do this, but there are no obstacles in you doing it.  I think this what they want to crack down on with Foreigners.

 

I can see future transactions for foreigners only transacting on the exchange, no deposit or withdrawal of crypto and only FIAT from your Thai bank being allowed to deposit and withdraw.  In other words, impossible to defeat the Currency Exchange Regulations.

[Conno]

JBChiangRai - Yes I can see that too in the short term, however outrageous such a rule change would be against honest gentlemen. Plus lets not forget also against the very ethos of crypto i.e. financial sovereignty.  I have only ever bought crypto with baht. Baht that was remitted into the country from overseas with zero baht earned in the country. I'm on a tourist visa so not allowed to work so that's a given. If such a restriction were ever to be implemented someone such as myself would be basically screwed. How would a long term expat Hodler ever be able utilise the crypto they have diligently accumulated over the years if this change ever came about? It would be stranded crypto in other words. I understand we are only speculating at this point in time, but you have to be asleep to not see where this is heading.

 

However I do feel there is hope. I say in the short term because I firmly believe in the medium to long term they are trying to hold back a tsunami here. ukrules Matrix meme once again. 

 

Basically the fractional reserve Matrix currency system is broken beyond repair. Virtually ALL governments are in $trillions of debt and as usual they either start wars or go after the peasants when attempting to bail themselves out of their self created mess. Therefore if you look back over history this same thing happens over and over again when the end of Empire moment approaches. We can all feel the noose tightening. Even when playing by the rules, it increasingly feels like we are viewed as some sort of criminal when just trying to safeguard our own financial survival. 

 

You don't need a crystal ball to see all of this is the foundations being formed for CBDCs, what I like to call Slave Coins. I believe ultimately they will fail, humanity does tend to sleep walk into one crisis after another, but eventually people see things for what they really are and then just start saying...... No, Enough. Never give up. Never surrender.

 

 

[ukrules]

I've been using UpBit Thailand as I mentioned previously

 

Now here's something interesting which doesn't affect Thai users (yet?) but as UpBit is a massive Korean exchange with foreign branches in various places including Thailand, Singapore and Indonesia.

They often send out emails highlighting upcoming changes in any of the places they operate.

 

A lot of noise was made early in 2023 about UpBit implementing the 'travel rule' - that did not happen as planned in March but I believe it's live for Singapore now, I think the Koreans have been effectively banned from withdrawing anything for years already.

 

The 'travel rule' restricts what you can do with your assets - it should be called the 'no travel rule' as it will mostly prevent anyone from making withdrawals due to the extra hassle involved.

 

So apparently if you buy some crypto asset (any asset I think) and want to withdraw it in Singapore you need to prove that the withdraw address belongs to you or send it to another known and approved exchange.

 

To withdraw to a private address on your own wallet on your own computer you need to cryptographically sign a message known only to the exchange with the address in questions private key and upload the signature before they will allow the withdrawal.

They will then recreate the address using the public key derived from the private key in your wallet and verify the message is signed correctly by this same private key which corresponds with the public key used to create the address. The only way to verify a cryptographically signed message is to disclose the public key - which is an important point here and related to address reuse which is a security thing.

Most people will have no idea what any of the above means never mind understand what they're doing if they follow the procedure so I guess this whole system is designed to register your Bitcoin addresses for those who actually do it or keep funds on exchanges by discouraging people from making withdrawals.

 

I believe there is zero expectation of privacy regarding these addresses. These 'VASPs' as they are known are required to share the information - with who is unclear. But once they know the address belongs to you they can then monitor how you go on to use the coins - they could do this before but now they have absolute proof that the address is registered officially to you.

 

I am very sure this kind of thing will become much more common all over the world in the next few years.

 

If you want to know more here's a couple of questions to ask at https://bard.google.com in this order :

 

Question 1 : "Please explain how the 'travel rule' affects Bitcoin withdrawals in Singapore"

 

Question 2 : "Specifically how it's implemented on UpBit - I believe private wallets are allowed but some kind of proof is required that you own the address - it's the proof that you own the Bitcoin address part that I'm interested in here and for UpBit"

 

The answers to the above 2 questions show the roadmap for the future - it will be introduced in many places, perhaps everywhere one day.

 

I have also heard of cases where people have had their Coinbase accounts closed down because they made quite a few transactions from the Coinbase withdraw address - so it is common for the exchanges to monitor what you do with the coins after you withdraw them.

All of this exists and is in place in parts of the world today

[likerdup1]

 What I would NEVER DO is keep cryptocurrency on an exchange PERIOD! Part of the problem is that many people who use crypto exchanges don't understand crypto currency technology. If you are keeping the bulk of your crypto currency on ANY CEX (centralized exchange) I don't care if it's Coinbase or whatever the hell you think a strong CEX is. Binance NO! you are inviting trouble!! If you don't understand what "keeping your own keys" is than I highly suggest you go to a Bitcoin 101 website (there are plenty of them) and study fundamental cryptocurrency technology. Here is an example. One does not STORE crypto currency on their laptop. They can store the keys to their wallet addresses on their laptop (which is it's own kind of danger) But better yet keep the keys in a hard wallet encrypted USB key  or write down the 12 word or 24 word seed phrase and put it in a very safe place. Crypto users. Use your own wallet. Metamask, Unisat whatever... keep the keys.. own your own keys. You don't own your keys if you keep your crypto on a CEX. None of them are 100% secure. Coinbase seems to be OK for now.... but look at FTX or Mt Gox

 

Side note.. seems like this forum is a lot busier now that Bitcoin is at 35k :-)

[YaDongImproved]

11 hours ago, advancebooking said:

are you saying that a foreigner is going to sue bitkub

 

Yes.

[YaDongImproved]

5 hours ago, Conno said:

 

Id also be interested in learning more details about this. 

 

It will surely take 3-4 weeks to get more info. I will try to keep you posted. Notice letter was sent. Bitkub replied. A petition is made for the court this week or next week.

[advancebooking]

14 hours ago, likerdup1 said:

Use your own wallet. Metamask, Unisat whatever... keep the keys.. own your own keys.

 

All of what you wrote in your paragraph I agree with apart from recommending Metamask. Over the years I have read many issues. Here is just one below.   I only recommend keeping your crypto on Ledger or Trezor wallets. 

 

 

 

[advancebooking]

16 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

BitKub asks you to be a gentleman and not do this, but there are no obstacles in you doing it.  I think this what they want to crack down on with Foreigners.

I agree with what you are saying. So does it mean that we only have until the 21st nov to either 1. fund thb and buy bitcoin on the exchange OR. 2. sell bitcoin/eth and fund back to thb bank account?

 

 

[JBChiangRai]

12 minutes ago, advancebooking said:

I agree with what you are saying. So does it mean that we only have until the 21st nov to either 1. fund thb and buy bitcoin on the exchange OR. 2. sell bitcoin/eth and fund back to thb bank account?

 

 

 

For me, the time limit has already expired.  If you've been given notice, you can still trade & deposit your crypto on BitKub and at any time in the future sell them for THB in your bank. Even after the deadline they gave you.

 

I wouldn't recommend leaving your crypto on the exchange unless you can get a personal guarantee from the site's owner that he will make good from his own funds if your crypto is ever lost.

[Neeranam]

On 11/6/2023 at 6:36 PM, Celsius said:

Why do people bother with this Thai crap. Opened account with coinbase yesterday in less than 2 hours. Yes, I know it is coinbase, but at least they have a functioning app and it works great.

Binance is easy too, used them for years. I especially like the instant P2P transfers to my Thai bank accounts. 

However, I like Bitkub too, apart from the daily taxemails I get. 

[likerdup1]

9 hours ago, advancebooking said:

All of what you wrote in your paragraph I agree with apart from recommending Metamask. Over the years I have read many issues. Here is just one below.   I only recommend keeping your crypto on Ledger or Trezor wallets. 

 

 

 

 

Yea, well keeping the Metamask Chrome plugin within Chrome isn't a good idea for sure. With a weak password anyone who might get a hold of your laptop could get access. Id use it this way.. Install it, use it go get your ETH, get your keys, seed phrase etc.. then uninstall.

[advancebooking]

9 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

If you've been given notice, you can still trade & deposit your crypto on BitKub and at any time in the future sell them for THB in your bank. Even after the deadline they gave you.

 

Are you saying that the expiry date of the bitkub notice that they gave you has passed but you are still able to send crypto to your wallet, sell it and fund to thai bank account? Is this correct? So basically there are no implications at all from their BS emails...

[JBChiangRai]

39 minutes ago, advancebooking said:

Are you saying that the expiry date of the bitkub notice that they gave you has passed but you are still able to send crypto to your wallet, sell it and fund to thai bank account? Is this correct? So basically there are no implications at all from their BS emails...

After expiry date you cannot deposit crypto or FIAT, you can sell crypto, withdraw crypto and FIAT that’s all.

[Conno]

3 hours ago, advancebooking said:

Are you saying that the expiry date of the bitkub notice that they gave you has passed but you are still able to send crypto to your wallet, sell it and fund to thai bank account? Is this correct? So basically there are no implications at all from their BS emails...

I think what JBChiangRai is saying is that any tokens you had on the exchange after your KYC has expired remain accessible, but only for selling for fiat and then transferring out to your nominated bank. Or withdrawing the same tokens back into your own self custody wallet. No more deposits of crypto or fiat post KYC expiry.

 

It's absolutely mind blowing and unacceptable treatment of a customer who has held an account with them for 5 years. While they haven't made any official announcements that they no longer desire non-Thai accounts, it sure does appear as if this is what is unfolding behind the scenes. All the while hiding behind these announcements that the non-Thai KYC updating system is temporarily unavailable.  They are either planning on making this an official policy in the near future or if not,  it is just another example of their ineptitude.  Either way not a good picture to behold. 

[Neeranam]

17 hours ago, Conno said:

It's absolutely mind blowing and unacceptable treatment of a customer who has held an account with them for 5 years.

The matter, AFAIK is out of their hands. They want all the customers they can get.  

[YaDongImproved]

The kind of letter they are sending and the constitution of Thailand. Petition should be in court in two weeks and could be interesting for dual pricing later. We will refuse a compromise.

[Conno]

1 hour ago, YaDongImproved said:

The kind of letter they are sending and the constitution of Thailand. Petition should be in court in two weeks and could be interesting for dual pricing later. We will refuse a compromise.

Thx YaDongimproved.  Got my girlfriend to translate this for me and it appears they are apologizing for not having the foreigner based KYC system in place. Plus it seems that this particular non-Thai's account currently has no restrictions applied to it if my GF has interpreted it accurately.  Which appears to contradict JohnyBoy777's experience from the other thread on this same subject.

 

You appear to have the right connections to keep us up to date. Please continue to share anything new that develops related to this story. It's important especially when crypto appears to be entering its 4th Bull run cycle. Big thanks. 

[Gulfsailor]

2 hours ago, YaDongImproved said:

The kind of letter they are sending and the constitution of Thailand. Petition should be in court in two weeks and could be interesting for dual pricing later. We will refuse a compromise.

Not a lawyer, but I am quite sure that you can’t just pick and choose a section from the Thai constitution (or any other countries’ for that matter). Section 27 is part of Chapter 3, and the first section 25 clearly mentions it is about the rights and liberties of THAI persons. Any subsequent sections when mentioning persons should be read as Thai persons. Of course non Thais cant have all the same rights and liberties as Thais, eg working, entry to the kingdom, voting, etc etc. Yet none of the sections in the constitution detailing those rights specifically mention Thai persons either, just persons. 

[YaDongImproved]

8 hours ago, Gulfsailor said:

Not a lawyer, but I am quite sure that you can’t just pick and choose a section from the Thai constitution (or any other countries’ for that matter). Section 27 is part of Chapter 3, and the first section 25 clearly mentions it is about the rights and liberties of THAI persons. Any subsequent sections when mentioning persons should be read as Thai persons. Of course non Thais cant have all the same rights and liberties as Thais, eg working, entry to the kingdom, voting, etc etc. Yet none of the sections in the constitution detailing those rights specifically mention Thai persons either, just persons. 

That’s we want to test, if it applies to foreigners or not. Do note the word “people” and not Thais or citizen.  The fact that foreigners can’t withdraw just like someone said, when you use the platforms for years, is discriminatory. And think Bitkub will negotiate and just agree to KYC but right now, yes, they apologized, find excuses but they really keep me from getting it in Thailand. My account here is only linked to Bitkub and it has been weeks and weeks.

[discrete]

On 11/6/2023 at 1:29 PM, Celsius said:

 

So, being at the mercy of Thai exchange where they can lock your account while asking for yet another KYC is more convenient and reliable?

Not unique to Thai exchanges. Bitfinex did that to me a couple of years ago.

[advancebooking]

On 11/6/2023 at 7:51 PM, ukrules said:

 

Admirable work. I don't use Bitkub as I heard there were many issues with verification.

 

But I do occasionally use UpBit Thailand and I am fully verified there, it's a Korean exchange which operates in various South East Asian countries, including Thailand.

 

I received an email from them over the weekend about this new enhanced verification requirement and they specifically stated that foreigners can do this 'DIP Chip' thing using a modern day passport which contains whatever chip it is that is used - presumably it's the NFC 'chip' in the passports.

 

I have until some time in December to complete this.

 

Based on what UpBit have said it appears that there is a way to process foreigners ID confirmation with some app and their passports and it's done at 7/11 in a similar manner to how a Thai would do it using their national ID card at 7/11.

 

I haven't done it yet though, but they say it is possible.

 

They also mentioned that if it doesn't work, which I guess is possible for some passports then there are other documents that can be uploaded to complete the verification process - the webpage didn't list what these documents are.

dip chip now works on upbit

 

 

[advancebooking]

On 11/7/2023 at 10:03 PM, ukrules said:

 

UpBit Thailand tell me you can 'dip chip' register using the passport but I haven't tried that yet - I have until December to do it - will probably give it a go in a few weeks time.

 

If that works then it is a viable option for Baht to Crypto and back

 

Edit : In fact that's not quite accurate about the dip chip thing, this is what the email title says :

 

"Existing foreign Users Must Complete Identify Re-verification via Passport NFC Verification"

 

It then goes on to speak about dip chip verification for Thais but doesn't mention the NFC Verification at all.

 

Edit more :

 

I went to UpBit to clarify this and this popped up - it's an app to verify the passport - but whether it's only for existing customers or new customers I don't know :