Change in the tax law does target expats living in Thailand and extends reporting obligations

[khunpa]

24 minutes ago, Jeffrey346 said:

To date, RD employees have not been given any details on this new tax law. No use getting bent out of shape at this time..

 

Even when they do get the details, it’s pretty certain that it will be interpreted differently by each individual and district. So total confusion.

[whitfield]

The first challenge from expats would be having to show 800,000 baht in the bank for the retirement extension and then being told it's subject to 20% tax.  Send a load of money here before 31 December and then sit back with the popcorn.

[Jeffrey346]

1 minute ago, khunpa said:

Even when they do get the details, it’s pretty certain that it will be interpreted differently by each individual and district. So total confusion.

I tend to doubt it. That is why the RD is hiring a lawyer for each province.

[Dan O]

59 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

I presume that you would be firstly required to declare your income under the new laws. You would then not be able to show any tax paid in the UK.  They may possibly accept a letter from the UK Revenue stating that you are not required to pay tax on it. However, an article I read by a 'Tax Accountant' in Thailand suggested that the Double Taxation Agreement between the UK and Thailand did not include such matters and that tax would be payable on pension income that was over the Thai tax threshold.

That tax consultant is wrong in his reading it. Read your country's DTA for yourself as most all exclude govt pensions from taxation outside the issuing country. 

[Mike Teavee]

3 hours ago, Gknrd said:

Same here.

 

3 hours ago, Captain Monday said:

Then to nothing to concern myself with as  I do not spend 180 days/year in any country.

 

regards,

 

Captain Monday 

 

 

Constant international travel

 

Can I ask which country you guys are from & whether not being Tax Resident elsewhere means by default you are Tax Resident in your home country. 

 

The reason I ask is that I plan on doing every 3rd year as a Non-Tax resident in Thailand during which I'll bring in enough money to support me for the next 3 years, BUT I don't want this to mean that I default to becoming tax resident in my home country (UK).

 

As an aside, the Tax Residency threshold in the UK operates on a sliding scale depending on how long you've been Non-UK Tax Resident & how many "Economic Ties" you have there. I can spend up to 89 days in the UK as I have 2 "Economic Ties" there, but if I had the full (4) "Economic Ties" it would be 45 days as I've been Non-UK Tax Resident for > 3 years & 16 days if I hadn't.

 

 

[Captain Monday]

46 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

If you have non complex financial affairs and have only regular payments that you import from overseas each month, pension or similar, along with savings interest in Thai banks, the tax return is simple. But it is in Thai so you may need help. I take my numbers to the local RD offices every January and the people there are happy to complete the return, free of charge, it takes 5 minutes. As long as you know what the net position or bottom line is regarding paying additional tax or getting a refund, you can easily trust RD to do that job for you. The Thai RD code is simple, it is not all complex for simple tax accounts. If you have a business here the story is different, you need an accountant.

I do it every year at Tax Revenue district 1 Chiang Mai. It takes 5 minutes, no English is spoken. But the only income I have in Thailand is the pittance of bank interest I earn and is partially confiscated at the source. 
 

I can scrape that back hardly worth the effort imaging thousands of farnags descending on their office with complex oveseas tax issues? A train wreck in the making but here the engineer intends to wreck the train.

[Mike Teavee]

1 minute ago, Captain Monday said:

I do it every year at Tax Revenue district 1 Chiang Mai.

As you're Non-Tax Resident you obviously don't need to do a return so do you do one to reclaim the Withheld tax on Income from your Bank Account?

 

I didn't even know Non-Tax Residents could file a return 🙂 

  

[khunpa]

11 minutes ago, BE88 said:

 

Finally it is good news because it pushes me to change my way of life, after having lived 10 years in Thailand the time has come to live in Thailand as a tourist for the winter months and the rest in another country making my life more active and interesting out of the current boredom.

 

 

I completely agree. Already started to look for other countries to spend my $$$ in. Lots of good options out there. Exciting! 🙂

[Tom H]

2 hours ago, Srikcir said:

I also read that it's an aggregate of 180 days in a calendar year. 

181:)

[charleskerins]

4 hours ago, Gknrd said:

It will go into effect , it won't matter if it is challenged in court or not. 

Nightmare to be  enforced or not, it does not matter. 

My guess is they will have authorized tax officials that you will have to get signed off on before you go to immigration for an extension of your visa.

 

don't give them any ideas

[hondoelsinore]

Only 3 pages in and the same old ridiculous rhetoric from the other 131 page monstrosity that is comprised of mostly personal and emotional content from nervous pseudo intellectuals that have all the answers to a question that they are not sure of. Now you get a little snippet of different scenarios from a Thai tax expert,and it's pretty much ignored and it's right back to the same same, but different. I've doomed scrolled this subject since the beginning, but I believe I can break free now. Sayonara Suckers.

[Captain Monday]

10 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

As you're Non-Tax Resident you obviously don't need to do a return so do you do one to reclaim the Withheld tax on Income from your Bank Account?

 

I didn't even know Non-Tax Residents could file a return 🙂 

  

You can. I got a tax ID years ago. 
I used to keep a large chunk here when you could get a nifty interest rate in Fixed accounts. The  interest tax pulled by Bangkok Bangkok refundable I guess since total income was below the threshold each year. Painless process . 

Edited November 6, 2023 by Captain Monday

[NorthernRyland]

So it's not enough you bring your money here and spend it, now the government wants to add an tax which in affect will make every single thing in the country X% more expensive depending on your tax obligation.

 

The max amount was 35% right? That means if you earned US income and were taxed at 20% you would be responsible for another 15%, thus making Thailand 15% more expensive across the board? 

 

If this really goes through and the number is significant will Thailand even be affordable anymore? 

 

[Mike Lister]

15 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

As you're Non-Tax Resident you obviously don't need to do a return so do you do one to reclaim the Withheld tax on Income from your Bank Account?

 

I didn't even know Non-Tax Residents could file a return 🙂 

  

I am not non-resident for tax purpose in Thailand but I am non-resident for tax in the UK. I live in Thailand year round, did I say something that made you think otherwise?

[koolkarl]

As of last month, Thailand is an active member of OECD and the CRS agreement in place with many countries.  They have to adhere to the OECD standards which means anyone who resides in Thailand more than 180 days a year is a tax resident and will eventually have to file a tax return here reporting their world income.  They will likely do this in stages.  But if you have to file a tax return here eventually, they should make you a legal immigrant and provide healthcare, etc.  Otherwise you pay and get nothing.  As for myself, adios Thailand. I will spend my money elsewhere.

[Jeffrey346]

5 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

So it's not enough you bring your money here and spend it, now the government wants to add an tax which in affect will make every single thing in the country X% more expensive depending on your tax obligation.

 

The max amount was 35% right? That means if you earned US income and were taxed at 20% you would be responsible for another 15%, thus making Thailand 15% more expensive across the board? 

 

If this really goes through and the number is significant will Thailand even be affordable anymore? 

 

I don't think it works that way. If you pay tax in the US you don't pay tax in Thailand

[lexxy]

The telcos here were implementing IFRS16 in 2019 or so with hard target dates followed up by external sources.

 

[bob smith]

1 hour ago, BE88 said:

 

Finally it is good news because it pushes me to change my way of life, after having lived 10 years in Thailand the time has come to live in Thailand as a tourist for the winter months and the rest in another country making my life more active and interesting out of the current boredom.

 

 

You, my friend, have got life down!

 

This is how we should all be thinking.

 

I am personally looking forward to 6 months here and six months traveling about like a nomad.

Couple months in Cambodia, then onto Laos, Vietnam, Take a flight to Nepal, then back to Thailand.

Rinse and repeat annually.

 

Sounds bloody good to me!

Edited November 6, 2023 by bob smith

[Gknrd]

I'm in Colombia getting some dental work done. Same tax laws here that are going into effect in Thailand. I like it here because I am not hassled as far as immigration goes. But, I have heard some horror stories here about the taxes. They are supposedly going to start cracking down here.

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by Gknrd

[Andycoops]

Typical Thai bodge with some government minnow spouting off to get his moment in the spotlight without any real strategy and risk assessment taking place.

[worrab]

1 hour ago, Jeffrey346 said:

They will enforce it. In fact, the Revenue Department is in the process of hiring 70 Lawyers.. One in each province to assure tax collection.

Just out of interest, where did you find this information?

[Mike Lister]

11 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

So it's not enough you bring your money here and spend it, now the government wants to add an tax which in affect will make every single thing in the country X% more expensive depending on your tax obligation.

 

The max amount was 35% right? That means if you earned US income and were taxed at 20% you would be responsible for another 15%, thus making Thailand 15% more expensive across the board? 

 

If this really goes through and the number is significant will Thailand even be affordable anymore? 

 

 

4 minutes ago, Jeffrey346 said:

I don't think it works that way. If you pay tax in the US you don't pay tax in Thailand

Many types of income from the US are excluded from taxation in Thailand because of the DTA, social security is one, government and private pensions are another.

 

The Thai tax tables are stepped, tax is calculated at different amounts based on the level of income, it is not a flat rate 35%. There is a big difference between the effective tax rates and the Thai tax table amounts.

 

Lastly, there are several generous deductions available to reduce taxable income, a personal allowance of 60k baht is available to everyone plus for over age 65 years, an extra 190k deduction exists. Further deductions exist for wife, children, life insurance, medical insurance and so on. After all that, the first 150k of income is zero rated for everyone. These things mean that the average expat pensioner must earn over 400k baht, before they begin to pay tax at 5%.

[Jeffrey346]

Just now, worrab said:

Just out of interest, where did you find this information?

My wife. She is a lawyer and works for the RD. She applied for this new position.

[ChipButty]

If we have to pay tax here then what benefits do we get? None I get it, 

[Bobthegimp]

2 hours ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

This situation begs the question as to why Thailand insists on inventing the wheel all over again... is it pride or ignorance that blinds them to other tried and true systems that are up and running with all the bugs already dealt with. Asking for a friend.

 

Did you follow the link and read the whole article? Asking for a friend. 

 

The linked article indicates that there are more pieces to this puzzle than the summation would have us believe.  The article is worth reading.  

 

Edit to add this pearl:  " to address Thailand’s inequality problem"

This has the stench of Klaus and his merry band of globalists all over it. 

Edited November 6, 2023 by Bobthegimp

[newbee2022]

5 hours ago, Puccini said:

match my own

....

so if there are any queries in the future we'll ask YOU 😂

[bob smith]

18 minutes ago, Gknrd said:

I'm in Colombia getting some dental work done. Same tax laws here that are going into effect in Thailand. I like it here because I am not hassled as far as immigration goes. But, I have heard some horror stories here about the taxes. They are supposedly going to start cracking down here.

 

My guess is expats making enough to pay big tax bills in Thailand have already made plans to bypass Thailand 6 months a year. 

my suitcase is already packed!.

 

I can leave at a moments notice. 

[freeworld]

Here we go again....

[NorthernRyland]

11 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Lastly, there are several generous deductions available to reduce taxable income, a personal allowance of 60k baht is available to everyone plus for over age 65 years, an extra 190k deduction exists. Further deductions exist for wife, children, life insurance, medical insurance and so on. After all that, the first 150k of income is zero rated for everyone. These things mean that the average expat pensioner must earn over 400k baht, before they begin to pay tax at 5%.

 

You're probably talking about money earned in Thailand right?

 

What happens if you earn 200,000k/month in your home country and reside in Thailand 7 months out of the year (elite visa or marriage etc...). You now may have tax liability on money which was already taxed, but does it matter how much money you actually bring in to Thailand? That would be unacceptable obviously if they wanted some % of your 200k/baht even if you brought in 30k/month to the country.

[Ralf001]

3 hours ago, john11k said:

All the foreigners/ expats living in Thailand are spending all there money in Thailand ,   Chances are they will now leave and spend it else where. 
I’ll never get over the thinking behind these sort of brainless laws,  

 

I earn it here and spend it here..... Why would I leave ?