Stopping Short Term Lets in a Condo Building. Any Tactics That Have Worked?

[mokwit]

Would be interested to know what tactics have been successfully employed by others.

[treetops]

From a few days ago:

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1311275-is-a-condominium-considered-private-property-here-and-are-there-trespassing-laws/?do=findComment&comment=18477722

 

[mokwit]

15 minutes ago, treetops said:

From a few days ago:

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1311275-is-a-condominium-considered-private-property-here-and-are-there-trespassing-laws/?do=findComment&comment=18477722

 

Thanks - we have people using the fire exits to enter and leave as away of circumventing keycard security. It had been jammed open with a metal plate screwed into the concrete floor by pro ST Let owners (one assumes), but with that removed it can't be locked for fire safety reasons (2 way open, not open one way fire door). I think the assumption where people are sneaking into the building like this should be to assume criminal intent and they should be stopped and handcuffed while we establish what the situation is (likely no key card or one key card amongst the four people in one studio). Others pick up their ST let keycards from outside, but often one keycard and multiple tenants it seems.

Edited November 14, 2023 by mokwit

[samtam]

This is a case for your Building Management, Juristic Person Manager etc.

[mokwit]

Just now, samtam said:

This is a case for your Building Management, Juristic Person Manager etc.

They are in a  position to act following changes and the Committee Member I have spoken to is very much on top of things and implementing solutions via the Juristic Person - I am asking on here as there may be some things we have overlooked or not thought of e.g how do you control access via a fire escape door that opens both ways and can't be locked (obviously).

[treetops]

5 minutes ago, mokwit said:

e.g how do you control access via a fire escape door that opens both ways and can't be locked (obviously).

My place in the UK uses "glass bolts" on the inside.  Easily broken for egress but secure enough to prevent access.

Edited November 14, 2023 by treetops

[mokwit]

Just now, treetops said:

My place in the UK uses glass bolts on the inside.  Easily broken for egress but secure enough to prevent access.

Exactly the kind of knowledge I was hoping for with my thread. Thanks. Legality in Thai must be investigated. We have a magnetic lock on one door that is officially a fire escape door and assume same principle.

[OneMoreFarang]

We have a fine for the owners who do short time renting in our building.

But the problem is as usual that regulations exist but (almost) nobody enforces them.

In our building it seems the management employees and the security people mostly look the other way. 

I never saw them stopping anybody who just walks through or waits that someone else opens the door with a keycard.

I don't know if they just don't care or if they get some "commission" from the bad guys.

 

As long as the enforcement doesn't work no regulations will make any difference.

 

To be fair, I don't know what the law is if someone unknown comes into the building and tells the security something like "my friend Peter invited me". Will anybody be fined for making wrong statements? Will "Peter" get fined if the visitor is not a friend but a paying customer?

I guess it's not easy for the security to enforce this. So, they take the easy way and don't do it... 

[mokwit]

In our building they were previously picking up the keycards from reception but that has changed.

 

People arriving with luggage are now stopped from entering and questioned - I have seen it, but don't know how it ends.

 

While we are trying to control this I would suggest that "Peter" asks his guest to wait in reception and comes and collects him/her. It could be a temporary enforcement that could be relaxed. Previously reception have called up to me when a guest has requested entry.

 

Following behind someone opening the door with a keycard is a difficult one. Open to suggestions as to how to control this - I follow on if someone opens the door in front of me and understandably they don't ask if I am a resident. Maybe the solution is a faster closing door - too fast for someone sitting in a chair in reception and anyone hanging around the door should be asked who what they are doing/who they are here to see - call up to the room for confirmation. If no confirmation ask them to leave.

Edited November 14, 2023 by mokwit

[treetops]

8 minutes ago, mokwit said:

Following behind someone opening the door with a keycard is a difficult one open to suggestions as to how to control this . . .

Turnstiles.

[mokwit]

Like BTS or some companies/office buildings? Require quite a lot of width and aesthetic are not good, but I see your point. OK in a large lobby like a building ground floor, but ours is small at the lift entry point.

[scubascuba3]

I read the other day a condo got the police to visit make arrests and it stops, they probably want paying, i would have thought the owners need targeting 

[soi3eddie]

Friend just moved to new condo in Bangkok. Quite a fancy place. They have the usual signs about short term lets being illegal etc. No keycards, but very impressive facial recognition for door access and also lift (elevator) control only to permitted floor/s. Unless registered with Juristic, almost impossible for rental to frequent short term guests.

 

[treetops]

1 minute ago, soi3eddie said:

No keycards, but very impressive facial recognition for door access and also lift (elevator) control only to permitted floor/s. Unless registered with Juristic, almost impossible for rental to frequent short term guests.

 

That reminded me of another one I've used.  Keyfob plus fingerprint with the fingerprint recognition programming being done by security/admin.

[digbeth]

Fingerprints or Facial recognition only and limit how often per month the co-owners can add a 'guest' would inconvenience the short term landlord enough that they are unable to do airbnbs anymore 

[Crossy]

1 hour ago, mokwit said:

Exactly the kind of knowledge I was hoping for with my thread. Thanks. Legality in Thai must be investigated. We have a magnetic lock on one door that is officially a fire escape door and assume same principle.

 

This kind of thing, I've not seen them here but that doesn't mean they don't exist, you'll need a specialist supplier I suspect.

 

[mokwit]

9 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

This kind of thing, I've not seen them here but that doesn't mean they don't exist, you'll need a specialist supplier I suspect.

 

Hmmm, pic appreciated, but not sure how these would be applicable to a fire door that has to be openable from both the inside and the outside. Most floors fire doors are only openable condo side (so people jam them open for easy access after opening them condo side), might help with that.

[treetops]

1 minute ago, mokwit said:

Most floors fire doors are only openable condo side (so people jam them open for easy access after opening them condo side), might help with that.

This.  Ours are on doors which would only be used to exit in an emergency.

[FritsSikkink]

1 hour ago, treetops said:

Turnstiles.

How do you get trough with a lot of shopping?

[mokwit]

2 minutes ago, treetops said:

This.  Ours are on doors which would only be used to exit in an emergency.

The need to open both way door *SHOULD* only be used to exit in an emergency but it has to be openable "street" side as it is at a level where there is another fire exit accessible - if you made it open condo side only people could still proceed down but not access alternative exit. People can come up to the level where it is without any access checks, although they do walk past a daytime manned security desk that would be a legitimate thing for a legitimate visitor to do.  - the keycard access is 'round the corner. Bad design.

[Crossy]

7 minutes ago, mokwit said:

Hmmm, pic appreciated, but not sure how these would be applicable to a fire door that has to be openable from both the inside and the outside. Most floors fire doors are only openable condo side (so people jam them open for easy access after opening them condo side), might help with that.

 

OK, so I'm clear here, you need a door that can be unlocked from inside and outside only in an emergency, so it remains secure from "casual" opening at other times?

 

[treetops]

1 minute ago, FritsSikkink said:

How do you get trough with a lot of shopping?

Same as in industrial building, sports grounds train stations etc where there are turnstiles.  There is a regular gate or doorway which security will open for you.

[blackcab]

Sukhumvit 15 Residences in Bangkok use a pedeatrian access gate with an access card and automatic barriers for vehicles to enter the ground floor parking garage, along with proactive security staff. There is no squeezing past the barriers as they take up the entire width of the available space.

 

After this you need facial ID or fingerprint to enter the main lobby, then your access card to use the lift.

 

It's an excellent system. The juristic manager will not enrol short term tenants and security will not just let you in.

 

It is the facial ID/fingerprint system that defeats short term renters.

[mokwit]

2 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

OK, so I'm clear here, you need a door that can be unlocked from inside and outside only in an emergency, so it remains secure from "casual" opening at other times?

 

Yes. It is a fire door with press bar opening on both sides, rather than the normal one only facing condo side..

Edited November 14, 2023 by mokwit

[ChipButty]

1 hour ago, mokwit said:

They are in a  position to act following changes and the Committee Member I have spoken to is very much on top of things and implementing solutions via the Juristic Person - I am asking on here as there may be some things we have overlooked or not thought of e.g how do you control access via a fire escape door that opens both ways and can't be locked (obviously).

A fire door should open out, years ago we used to put a panic bar on the inside so on the outside there would be nothing not needed, 

[mokwit]

Just now, ChipButty said:

A fire door should open out, years ago we used to put a panic bar on the inside so on the outside there would be nothing not needed, 

See my explanation above - common area access down from another fire exit route. All the doors above are only openable from condo side.

[treetops]

3 minutes ago, mokwit said:

The need to open both way door *SHOULD* only be used to exit in an emergency but it has to be openable "street" side as it is at a level where there is another fire exit accessible - if you made it open condo side only people could still proceed down but not access alternative exit. People can come up to the level where it is without any access checks, although they do walk past a daytime manned security desk that would be a legitimate thing for a legitimate visitor to do.  - the keycard access is 'round the corner. Bad design.

Without knowing the complexity of it obviously, is there any way to re-configure entry/exit routes around this?

[mokwit]

4 minutes ago, blackcab said:

proactive security staff.

Previously they helped just arrived airbnb'ers with their luggage, but there is a new regime now and I have seen them being aggressively proactive.

[blackcab]

1 hour ago, mokwit said:

e.g how do you control access via a fire escape door that opens both ways and can't be locked (obviously).

 

The first thing would be to use a security seal on the fire doors to see if there is actually a problem.

 

There are lots of options available online, but the main idea is that the seals do not stop operation of the door in the event of a fire.

 

If you do have an issue then it depends on the exact type of door you have. An inside and outside photo of the complete door and frame would be needed for advice as doors and hardware differ greatly.

[treetops]

Unlock the "problem" door from the outside using a magnetic lock de-activated when the alarm is sounded?