I was told confirmation letter of pension must be legalized?

[PRM]

Hello!

 

I was told at the immigration office here in Aranyaprathet in Sa Kaeo that confirmation letter of pension must be legalized with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, they said there were new rules from September 27th, but I can't find anything online about this.

 

And does anyone know if I can renew my visa in Pattaya or if I am locked to the immigration office here in Sa Kaeo province where I live?

[Lite Beer]

You must apply at the office that covers the area in which you reside.

[Shop mak]

Take a few days in Pattaya, report change of adress to pattaya, and then you should be good to go at Jomtien soi 5.

[Mike Lister]

From the internet:

 

- "A foreign government certifies that the document is legitimate,

- A translation service certifies that the translation of the document is correct.

- A local government validates the document issued overseas based on its legalized certified translation.

Eventually, only a government department (generally the Ministry of Foreign Affairs) can authenticate and legalize a document issued by a foreign government. It is a fairly simple procedure when all the steps are done correctly".

 

The last time I tried to do something similar was to try and get a yellow book at my amphur about one year ago. The amphur wanted a certified copy of my passport. The MOFA would n't certify the copy and the translation, unless the UK embassy first certified it as a genuine passport!!! I gave up at that point.

[Mike Lister]

You might explore if a legit agent or lawyer can do this for you, I was told by my long trusted agent that they could legalise a document but the cost was around 1k per page.

[Kilick]

The letter should come from your embassy and notarized. Only a few embassies will provide said letter

[soalbundy]

I have a yellow house registration book and did my yearly visa extension (pension) with a letter in English from a German consulate this November in Surin, never had any of this nonsense happen, it was quickly accepted as it was.

[tuk75]

You can do it in CW by mail, 400 bath or at Foregn dept office in Pattaya. (Central)

Lok at Foreign departments homepage or at Facebook.

Only they do its to validate the Consuls signature to avoid fakes.

[tuk75]

Book an appointment online for document legalization work.

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[BusyB]

 

I obtained a certificate of income from the German Embassy in BKK. It needed to be verified by the Dept. of Foreign Affairs. However NOT at actual DFA HQ. Appointment is needed at Laksi according to them. 

There is however a branch at Level 5 in MBK where you can queue up, put your address on a big yellow envelope along with recent fotos or whatever (you'll have to ask I can't remember) and they'll process it and send it to you with a DFA stamp on the back. Costs a couple of hundred or so. Arrived a few days later.

 

The frustrating thing about all this is that it is not mentioned anywhere in the list of requirements for Non-O or extension of same. So it caught me unawares when I first pitched up with the perfectly genuine certificate. 

[PRM]

It's finished, i went to the office i Central Pattaya an it was one hour and 400 Bath. not bad.

[xtrnuno41]

Red today in another forum, bankstatement needed for renewal visa can vary from immigration offices.

And also getting bankstatements from bank can vary.

Some immigration offices accept half year bankstatement and  also would be enough, you do your self.(own print)

 

Other immigration offices needed year bankstatement.

Then there are immigration offices the bankstatement MUST be signed and stamped by bank.(for instance Lampang)

There are banks providing this, but not at the time you come ask for it. You have to come back again.

There are banks making not that problem and provide instantly. Some(?) you have to pay 100 baht fee

 

So think about it, when you go for visum renewal. What are ( the new?) demands from immigration and how helpful is your bank.

The story by guy who experienced it, didnt had many replies, yet.

But he noticed it as new and even immigration noticed it as new ! New from bank and was Kasikorn, Lampang.

His wife couldnt have instantly a year bankstatement and had to come back next day.

 

I know it is a little off topic, but as you can see there are more changes again in visum renewals. 

[KhunBENQ]

6 hours ago, soalbundy said:

I have a yellow house registration book and did my yearly visa extension (pension) with a letter in English from a German consulate this November in Surin, never had any of this nonsense happen, it was quickly accepted as it was.

I had the certificate from the German consul in Pattaya in English language, nicely stamped and "folded"/tucked together with the pension statements in German (issued July 10th).

Presented at Khon Kaen on October 3rd this year.

Explained why there are two separate pensions listed and accepted,

20 minutes all done.

So I can only hope that this new harassment doesn't spread.

(still prepared to use the 12 monthly transfers method)

[thesetat]

I am confused... Why would you need to confirm a letter about your pension? Since money for the visa is either deposited in full or there is money sent from another country enough to meet their requirements.... So why are they asking you to show where your money comes from?

[Sheryl]

5 minutes ago, thesetat said:

I am confused... Why would you need to confirm a letter about your pension? Since money for the visa is either deposited in full or there is money sent from another country enough to meet their requirements.... So why are they asking you to show where your money comes from?

 

He is  referring to a letter from his Embassy attesting to his monthly income.

 

 For people who come from a country whose embassy provides this letter, it is accepted as proof of income with  no need to show bank statement.  Nor is there a requirement to bring it all into the country.

 

US and UK Embassies, and I think 1-2 others, will no longer provide this letter but many other embassies still do,

 

 

[Kalasin Jo]

On 11/14/2023 at 4:36 PM, Mike Lister said:

The last time I tried to do something similar was to try and get a yellow book at my amphur about one year ago. The amphur wanted a certified copy of my passport. The MOFA would n't certify the copy and the translation, unless the UK embassy first certified it as a genuine passport!!! I gave up at that point.

I didn't even get as far as the British Embassy let alone MoFA before giving up. If Immigration accept your passport surely other government agencies, even local government ones such as an Amphur should. My Amphur wanted an Embassy certified copy of the ID page. No mention then of a translation but I anticipated that would also be required then legalised at MoFA. The last and only time I went through the legalisation process at MoFA I found extremely stressful. Time consuming to get out there ( and back to central Bangkok), queuing, rejection of translation as inaccurate, get and pay for fresh translation by onsite agent ( who of course appeared like magic at my elbow at that moment), waiting and hoping we would not be told to come back next day as closing time approached, fortunately we weren't. It took all of a very long day for us. And my wife is not the most patient.

[AAArdvark]

3 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

He is  referring to a letter from his Embassy attesting to his monthly income.

 

 For people who come from a country whose embassy provides this letter, it is accepted as proof of income with  no need to show bank statement.  Nor is there a requirement to bring it all into the country.

 

US and UK Embassies, and I think 1-2 others, will no longer provide this letter but many other embassies still do,

 

 

So what is to be done for those 4 countries?  I thought that a statement showing deposits from overseas was all that was needed. 

[BritTim]

27 minutes ago, AAArdvark said:

So what is to be done for those 4 countries?  I thought that a statement showing deposits from overseas was all that was needed. 

 

Indeed, transfers, each and every month, of 65,000 baht or more into your Thai bank account is the only option for those who cannot get an income letter from their embassy. That is very different from an average pre-tax income of 65,000 baht per month or more whether brought into Thailand or not. Note that there is no need with an income letter to transfer money to Thailand when you are not there.

[OJAS]

On 11/14/2023 at 4:36 PM, Mike Lister said:

Eventually, only a government department (generally the Ministry of Foreign Affairs) can authenticate and legalize a document issued by a foreign government. It is a fairly simple procedure when all the steps are done correctly".

 

It is anything but "a fairly simple procedure" when it comes to a document issued by the UK government!

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5b173648e5274a190383bc14/Legalisation_info_June_2018.pdf

 

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, OJAS said:

 

It is anything but "a fairly simple procedure" when it comes to a document issued by the UK government!

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5b173648e5274a190383bc14/Legalisation_info_June_2018.pdf

 

I forgot to put quotes around that, those are not my words although the last para is.

[Sheryl]

8 hours ago, AAArdvark said:

So what is to be done for those 4 countries?  I thought that a statement showing deposits from overseas was all that was needed. 

For the countries that do not issue the income letter, if using the income method you need proof of income remitted every month from abroad. Some IOs will accept a bank statement, some want ti see the bankbook some want both.

 

Alternative is the lump sum in the bank method.

[Moonlover]

The DWP who manage UK state pensions never send letters and another provider of mine has gone paperless, so they don't send letters either.

 

I didn't even bother with letters this year. I gave them a downloaded copy of my PAYE tax summery for the year, which lists all of my pension incomes. They made no comment, so I guess they were happy with that.

[5davidhen1]

18 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

The DWP who manage UK state pensions never send letters and another provider of mine has gone paperless, so they don't send letters either.

 

I didn't even bother with letters this year. I gave them a downloaded copy of my PAYE tax summery for the year, which lists all of my pension incomes. They made no comment, so I guess they were happy with that.

Are you saying that Thai immigration (Jomtien?) is accepting the tax summary from DWP (HMRC gateway personal PAYE tax a/c) as proof of income to enable the annual extension of stay based on retirement, in lieu of the THB 800,000/ 65k pm method? Provided, of course, that the annual funds exceed 12xTHB65k.

[Moonlover]

On 11/16/2023 at 9:46 AM, 5davidhen1 said:

Are you saying that Thai immigration (Jomtien?) is accepting the tax summary from DWP (HMRC gateway personal PAYE tax a/c) as proof of income to enable the annual extension of stay based on retirement, in lieu of the THB 800,000/ 65k pm method? Provided, of course, that the annual funds exceed 12xTHB65k.

Oh I do wish it were that easy. No, Salon Nakhon immigration accepted it as evidence that I had pension incomes.

 

I still had to prove, by the usual means, that that my income (40k plus per month) was being remitted into my Thai bank account.

[Kalasin Jo]

On 11/16/2023 at 12:24 AM, AAArdvark said:

So what is to be done for those 4 countries?  I thought that a statement showing deposits from overseas was all that was needed. 

I'm a Brit, so no pension letter from my Embassy these days.  Sad to say the Embassy offers very little assistance to British expats these days.

When the Embassy announced at the end of 2019, I think it was, they would no longer do them allegedly after a meeting with high ups in Thai Immigration ( I think "Big Joke" was in charge then) I complained pointing out other Embassies, with a couple of exceptions, were still doing them ( even today).

The justification for withdrawing this service was that they were told at this meeting with the Thai high ups that Thailand " assumes" Embassies verify the source and amount of the pension(s) identified in the letter which the Brit Embassy said they do not and cannot do.  A rather Thai reaction that I  thought; cannot.

As I read the situation almost certainly a UK Foreign Office civil servant sitting in a windowless basement office in London reacted in horror at this revelation, reading far more than necessary in to the report of "what Thailand assumes" and instructing the Embassy to discontinue the service asap, a service which had been happily running to everyone's benefit for years with the Embassy collecting a nice fee for doing not alot. Of course it's a nonsense, I'd be surprised if any Embassy ever did this. For those lucky enough Embassy letters are still being produced and still happily accepted by Thailand's Immigration. Ask no questions tell no lies.

Without it the only options in Thailand are either money in the bank or to produce a Thai bank statement for the 12 months prior to the date of your extension application showing each monthly pension amount Thailand requires coming in, in total slightly more than the money in the bank option.

Simples? Perhaps if that's how you have had the previous 12 months set up in this way. On a first extension very unlikely.

Back then I did actually have a 12 month bank statement but my IO ( Kalasin) asked for evidence that it was actually pension income as I didn't have direct payments in from the UK Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) or any other pension provider for that matter. I transferred sums myself according to need which as it happened exceeded the Thai monthly requirement but crucially not identifiable on the bank statement as pension payments.

So he said " very sorry, cannot". You must either transfer the required capital amount straight away ( as this was a first extension application on a Savannakhet visa ( before that Consulate's change this year to  money in a Thai bank) or you must leave Thailand and start again.

This was in 2020, the first year of Covid and before Thailand introduced or at least before I, or presumably the IO as he said nothing about that, became aware of the Covid extensions for foreigners marooned here.  Unfortunately I had already used the 60 day extension to the original 90.

Not being in a position to make such a transfer on such a tight timescale and with the border at now Mukdahan closed I managed to find a "repatriation" flight.

Despite the emergency Covid extensions of stay here it was but for a high price always possible to get back to Europe. But not to come back to Thailand any time soon after leaving. The flight to Europe I got was virtually empty as were the airports and public transport. And fortunately no hotel quarantining on arrival, just at home there,  although getting a test here was a challenge. Seems utterly surreal now. 

As a postscript, if you haven't switched off way back, I also took the opportunity to explain to the IO that the UK state pension is way, way below the Thai immigration  financial requirement, made worse by the poor exchange  rate GBP to THB, from around 55 baht to below 40 baht at that time I recall ( following the 2016 brexit vote from which to this day the GBP has never recovered much against any major currency). Today it's 44 baht.

That a state pension from a '"rich country" ( the IOs words) was so low and needs substantial topping up from other sources to meet the Thai financials genuinely surprised the IO.

Obviously the usual Thai perception that all farangs are by definition wealthy, coming from rich countries which provide fat state pensions, was as alive and well in this setting as on Nana and Soi Buakhao.