Immigration, Dead mother…

[khunpa]

Since my wife’s death 7 months ago, my son and I have travelled out of Thailand 3 times.

 

Each time more or less of a “circus show”, with my 9-year old son being interrogated about his dead mother.

 

Something I find completely inappropriate and unnecessary, as I have all official documents needed. (Guardian Visa, Death- / Marriage Certificates etc.) There is absolutely no point in question my son about his mother, which only makes him sad every time we travel.

 

 

[FritsSikkink]

That is indeed ridiculous.

[ChipButty]

I used to know another Farang who used to travel with his daughter and used to get the 3rd degree every time, in that case the mother was alive, he had it writing, he had the mother permission to take her out of the country, 

[BritTim]

A distressing experience, for sure. One would think that by the third time, Immigration would realise that your wife was truly dead.

[Georgealbert]

Not an easy situation.
 

Unpleasant and distressing for the child/father, but can see why immigration will be worried about, trafficking regulations, etc.

 

Is it possible to get a Amphoe letter/certificate, like you should if the mother was alive. Amphoe will have access to death records and maybe can issue a stamp/signed declaration to that effect.

 

Have got a letter myself before, a few times, from Amphoe, but mother was there to give permission. Immigration never asked once to see letter.

[mikebike]

Pain in the behind for you, but a very good way to root out human child traffickers. Suck it up and move on. 

[Chris Daley]

Children can feed off of your emotions and will try to do what is right.  He has learnt that 'being sad about mom' is right and gets him free candy after.

 

Tell him to get over it and just blast though the interviews.  Do not spend time on it.  Your child will learn that this is the new topic we all talk about in the house.

[DrJack54]

5 minutes ago, Chris Daley said:

Children can feed off of your emotions and will try to do what is right.  He has learnt that 'being sad about mom' is right and gets him free candy after.

 

Tell him to get over it and just blast though the interviews.  Do not spend time on it.  Your child will learn that this is the new topic we all talk about in the house.

I can not find ONE post of yours in various threads that is remotely sensible. 

[mikebike]

For the sad and confused folks... Having all his paperwork means nothing, child traffickers have all the forged documentation they would ever need. The only way an IO is going to determine whether or not that child is being trafficked is by talking to the child. 

[Chris Daley]

I know a typical Thai mother / drug addict and alcoholic.  When she wakes up late she looks at the kid and says 'you feel sick today, right'?  The kids says yes and stays at home.  The kid has now learnt this is a way to stay home.  Same for people dying.  It's best to move on quickly.

 

I was doing coloring with the child and the child ran to show her mom.  The mom showed no interest and walked past her.  The child tore up the paper and threw it on the ground.  The child learnt that day that studying is useless.

 

It's so easy to reinforce negative behavior with children.  You should treat the interviews as a totally normal thing that happens.  Because it is.

[brewsterbudgen]

I hope their "interrogation" is at least sympathetic.  But preventing child trafficking has to be a prime concern.  I feel for you.

[Bday Prang]

2 hours ago, Chris Daley said:

Children can feed off of your emotions and will try to do what is right.  He has learnt that 'being sad about mom' is right and gets him free candy after.

 Well "Dr Freud" have you considered the possibility that the kid might not have actually "learnt " anything and might actually just be genuinely sad and possibly a little distressed , as a direct result of being interrogated by  officers  about the  recent death of his mother?

 What" free candy" are you talking about

It appears that you have not fully understood the op

 

[Bday Prang]

36 minutes ago, Chris Daley said:

I know a typical Thai mother / drug addict and alcoholic.  When she wakes up late she looks at the kid and says 'you feel sick today, right'?  The kids says yes and stays at home.  The kid has now learnt this is a way to stay home.  Same for people dying.  It's best to move on quickly.

 

I was doing coloring with the child and the child ran to show her mom.  The mom showed no interest and walked past her.  The child tore up the paper and threw it on the ground.  The child learnt that day that studying is useless.

 

It's so easy to reinforce negative behavior with children.  You should treat the interviews as a totally normal thing that happens.  Because it is.

If the kid learnt anything that day it was that colouring is useless, but nevertheless  That drug addict mother is so lucky to have you around, 

[BritTim]

6 hours ago, mikebike said:

For the sad and confused folks... Having all his paperwork means nothing, child traffickers have all the forged documentation they would ever need. The only way an IO is going to determine whether or not that child is being trafficked is by talking to the child. 

 

They can see the child's immigration history which among other things (if Immigration has any compassion) should include the fact that the child has already been interrogated about his deceased mother. An upsetting interview once might be regarded as a necessary evil. To go through this every time he passes through an airport is unreasonable. Most people involved in child trafficking do not keep taking the child in and out of Thailand. Also, a father trying to use forged death certificates to justify why the mother is not with them seems quite unlikely. I personally think it is disgustingly insensitive.

[swm59nj]

Condolences regarding your loss.  Understandable it makes your child upset.  But immigration is protecting children against illegal activities.  Unfortunately what is happening in this day and age. 

[bbbbooboo]

Hmm…. Its all about power , they have the power to do these things and you are powerless to stop them?

[khunpa]

14 hours ago, mikebike said:

For the sad and confused folks... Having all his paperwork means nothing, child traffickers have all the forged documentation they would ever need. The only way an IO is going to determine whether or not that child is being trafficked is by talking to the child. 

I think it would be a bit easier to train a kid to answer some questions, than provide perfect fakes of:

 

- The kids Thai and Foreign Passport 

- Kids and Mothers Thai-ID

- Death Certificate 

- Death Report 

- Cremation Certificate

- Blue Book with Mothers page stamped as “dead”

- Marriage Certificate 

- Birth certificates.

 

The above, plus our previous travel history gives them absolutely no reason to interrogate my son about his mother. 
 

The problem is that none of the officers take the slightest time to check the papers handed to them before the start the “Where is your mother questions?”

 

On next travel, I am considering starting off by showing a picture with my son beside her dead mother. Maybe with the text: “His mother is dead! You have all the documents to prove it. Please read them before interrogating my son about his mother”… 

 

Might work…

[brianthainess]

The only thing I can think of is to carry a copy of her death cert, and stable it inside the Childs passport.

[khunpa]

7 hours ago, BritTim said:

 

They can see the child's immigration history which among other things (if Immigration has any compassion) should include the fact that the child has already been interrogated about his deceased mother. An upsetting interview once might be regarded as a necessary evil. To go through this every time he passes through an airport is unreasonable. Most people involved in child trafficking do not keep taking the child in and out of Thailand. Also, a father trying to use forged death certificates to justify why the mother is not with them seems quite unlikely. I personally think it is disgustingly insensitive.

It is actually very insensitive, as they get all the documents they need about his mother.
 

Personally I don’t mind that they ask him questions about where he is going and for how long etc. But they do not need to have my son verbally confirm that is mother is dead when they have all the paper work required.
 

On our last exit I made a “scene” at the immigration-line and was pulled aside for another senior officer to handle it. The new officer never asked my kid about anything and also said she understood, why I found it inappropriate. She also confirmed that I had more than enough paperwork required to exit the country with my son.

 

But of course I am sure, it will all be pretty much the same on next exit. 

[Tropposurfer]

From the posts tag line: And mind you I'm just 'spit-ballin' here but I don't think dead mother are allowed to emigrate lol 🤣😂

Edited November 16, 2023 by Tropposurfer

[khunpa]

14 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

I hope their "interrogation" is at least sympathetic.  But preventing child trafficking has to be a prime concern.  I feel for you.

Last exit and “interrogation” was for sure not sympathetic at all. My kid completely froze and the officer then became agitated with me, as I had to explain and ask her to please read the papers in front of her. 

We ended up with a very angry officer (who lost face), but lucky got pulled aside, by another, who was much more understanding.

[khunpa]

15 hours ago, Chris Daley said:

I know a typical Thai mother / drug addict and alcoholic.  When she wakes up late she looks at the kid and says 'you feel sick today, right'?  The kids says yes and stays at home.  The kid has now learnt this is a way to stay home.  Same for people dying.  It's best to move on quickly.

 

I was doing coloring with the child and the child ran to show her mom.  The mom showed no interest and walked past her.  The child tore up the paper and threw it on the ground.  The child learnt that day that studying is useless.

 

It's so easy to reinforce negative behavior with children.  You should treat the interviews as a totally normal thing that happens.  Because it is.

Thanks for your “smart” analysis.

Based on that, I guess what my kid has learnt is that most adults are complete idiots for asking where his mother is, while they are holding her death certificate.

 

 

Edited November 16, 2023 by khunpa