Navy Chief Prefer Already-Ordered Submarine Rather Than Frigate

[webfact]

 

NAVY CHIEF ADM ADUNG Pan-iam today (Nov.20) expressed his preference for a Chinese-built submarine for which a purchase order has been earlier placed rather than a frigate as a probable option from another Chinese shipbuilder.

 

The navy chief confirmed the Yuan-class S26T submarine could be eventually procured, albeit with a Chinese-made engine to be installed aboard in lieu of a German one which had been earlier designed but will remain unavailable for use with the sub manufactured by China Shipbuilding & Offshore International Co.

 

Adm. Adung said the Chinese-made CHD620 engine which, he said, is merely a licensed derivative of the German MTU396 engine has undergone operability tests by the unidentified Chinese shipbuilding firm.

 

The Thai navy has long planned to deploy a fleet of four submarines, essentially viewed as a “strategic” weapon system, but the planned procurement of the Chinese sub, Thailand’s first in six decades, was practically irrelevant to the fact that some neighbouring countries are already deploying submarines, according to the navy chief.

 

By Thai Newsroom Reporters

Top: A submarine. Photo: Thai Rath

 

Full story: THAI NEWSROOM 2023-11-23

 

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[JoePai]

neighbouring countries are already deploying submarines

 

Laos ?

[Sydebolle]

As we can take it for granted, that nobody in the navy took anything looking like a commission, it remains simply the "preference" of Navy Chief Adung Pan-iam. 

Since when are admirals, together with the rest of the uniformed circus, able to "prefer"? They should prove need, get the approval of the government and then look for the best possible option to close a deal. That might include the side-effect, that a submarine should have an engine - me thinks. 

But as long as the admirals, generals and other fellows in colourful clothes and funny hats defend Thailand's sovereignty by the "preference", it remains to be seen, if we do not see a repetition of the aircraft engine issue - although those airframes got some engines from Rolls Royce though ;-) 

[hotchilli]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

Adm. Adung said the Chinese-made CHD620 engine which, he said, is merely a licensed derivative of the German MTU396 engine has undergone operability tests by the unidentified Chinese shipbuilding firm.

Does it come with the usual 7 day guarantee?

[Srikcir]

53 minutes ago, Sydebolle said:

the "preference" of Navy Chief Adung Pan-ia

It's even more fanciful:

"ADMIRAL BEHIND SUBMARINE DEAL DEFENDS NEED FOR ‘DREAM WEAPON’ By Teeranai Charuvastra, News Chief May 4, 2017 www.khaodenglish.com

• “It’s the dream weapon of every naval officer,” says Adm. Suriya Pornsuriya 
• "Thailand used to have submarines. In 1937, it bought four vessels from the Empire of Japan, then a growing military power. They were decommissioned in 1951 after the navy tried – and failed – to topple the army-led government.
• For nearly seven decades since, the Royal Thai Navy has been unable to reclaim its glory."

It's about GLORY. About Navy vs Army? What about the alleged sovereignty of the Thai People and their needs?

 

[mfd101]

2 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

They were decommissioned in 1951 after the navy tried – and failed – to topple the army-led government.

I guess they found the torpedoes couldn't reach all the way upriver.

[VocalNeal]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

a licensed derivative

 

Ahem, cough

[Burma Bill]

2 hours ago, JoePai said:

neighbouring countries are already deploying submarines

 

Laos ?

 

Neither does Cambodia, despite the Royal Cambodian Navy Ream Base near Sihanoukville. The fleet comprises large and small patrol boats, landing craft and "motorised canoes" (wikipedia).

Burma apparently has 2:- (wikipedia)

On 24 December 2021, Myanmar Navy has commissioned its second submarine the UMS Minye Kyaw Htin, a type 35B Ming-class submarine from China.

Vietnam has 6 submarines and Malaysia 2 (ref. again, wikipedia)

 

 

 

[Nicholas Paul KNIGHT]

Oh dear obviously the LOSS of brown envelopes will be hurting, and ANY Real Navy man worth anything knows that The waters around most of Thailand are TOO shallow for submarine work and judging by the use of the Air Craft carrier Thailands Navy does not exactly venture too far from its home shores. 

[Eleftheros]

Not to worry.

 

The Thai Navy has a good history of turning frigates into submarines without warning.

[oxo1947]

On 11/23/2023 at 2:09 PM, JoePai said:

Laos ?

 

Vietnam / Malaysia / Myanmar....and of course  Indonesia has over 2,700 subs.  I know its a joke to always kick around Thailand defense forces, but they are not exactly surrounded by what one would call good friends.

Edited November 26, 2023 by metisdead
Bold font removed.

[Morch]

57 minutes ago, Nicholas Paul KNIGHT said:

Oh dear obviously the LOSS of brown envelopes will be hurting, and ANY Real Navy man worth anything knows that The waters around most of Thailand are TOO shallow for submarine work and judging by the use of the Air Craft carrier Thailands Navy does not exactly venture too far from its home shores. 

 

Not a problem - this calls for a national project of adding water to the seas around Thailand (or, when this fails - digging the bottom).

[TheFishman1]

All these decision-makers in Thailand are smoking crack TIT

[Eleftheros]

On 11/23/2023 at 6:20 PM, oxo1947 said:

 

Vietnam / Malaysia / Myanmar....and of course  Indonesia has over 2,700 subs.  I know its a joke to always kick around Thailand defense forces, but they are not exactly surrounded by what one would call good friends.

The figure of 2,700 submarines for Indonesia seems a little bit high, given that China only has 78 and the US 68.

 

Information from people who study this subject estimate that the number of submarines operated by the Indonesian Navy is not 2,700 but ..... 4.

[redwood1]

I would say the number of laughs the subs have created makes them worth every baht.....And a sub without an engine creates even more laughter so an engineless sub has the most value.... 

Edited November 26, 2023 by redwood1

[Aussie999]

On 11/23/2023 at 3:46 PM, Sydebolle said:

As we can take it for granted, that nobody in the navy took anything looking like a commission, it remains simply the "preference" of Navy Chief Adung Pan-iam. 

Since when are admirals, together with the rest of the uniformed circus, able to "prefer"? They should prove need, get the approval of the government and then look for the best possible option to close a deal. That might include the side-effect, that a submarine should have an engine - me thinks. 

But as long as the admirals, generals and other fellows in colourful clothes and funny hats defend Thailand's sovereignty by the "preference", it remains to be seen, if we do not see a repetition of the aircraft engine issue - although those airframes got some engines from Rolls Royce though ;-) 

Mate, the word is "preferred," most militaries would have a "preferred" list, besides, Thailand hasn't had a submarine since they were decommissioned on 30 November 1951, yet, and, as this is Thailand, every year they celebrate Submarine day, and also have their submariners, lol... yep, as usual, Thailand is a joke.

[Guderian]

Just leave it neglected and rusting in port for a few more years, and the Chakri Narabuet will probably end up looking like a submarine, lol.

[mikebell]

On 11/23/2023 at 7:28 AM, webfact said:

NAVY CHIEF ADM ADUNG Pan-iam today (Nov.20) expressed his preference for a Chinese-built submarine for which a purchase order has been earlier placed rather than a frigate

On account of the cash inducements; the 1st tranche of which have already been paid and spent.

[Emdog]

Just hire this guy and be done with it!

[spidermike007]

Who is a great threat to Thailand?

Malaysia?

Singapore?

Cambodia?

Laos? 

Vietnam?

The PI? 

Please guys. Try to at least behave like adults. 

 

The Chinese ships and subs are likely poorly made. Thankfully the Chinese navy is incapable of traveling more than 1,500 km., in ideal conditions. Likely more like 600 km. in war conditions. And they have very few deep sea ports. Their navy is a threat only to their smaller neighbors. 

 

Thai naval forces have not operated submarines for over 60 years now, while neighboring countries, particularly those with a major dispute at sea with Thailand, such as Vietnam, are all equipped with modern submarines. 

 

Looks like they are willing to take a huge risk with the treasury. Why were they so timid with Covid?

 

This government is a whirlpool of conflicting loyalties and interests. It's leader has to manage those interests, and effectively buy the loyalties of the various parts of the armed forces. The submarines are the price he has to pay for the navy supporting him. They will end up unusable and unaffordable, as did the aircraft carrier. There is no strategic justification for the submarines. There is really no military threat to Thailand, none of the countries with which it shares a land border have the capacity for anything other than the occasional cross border firefight. If you look carefully at all the military procurement of recent years, they are all to support ambitions, and thus buy the support of the various rival groups within the armed forces. They simply do not add up to any sort of a coherent modernisation or re-equipment of what remains a largely obsolete, immobile and under trained force, able only to undertake the most mundane of garrison duties, whilst it's bloated leadership occupies itself with playing politics or their own largely unregulated business ventures.

 

The government however (or more realistically those to whom it reports) must rely upon the military to keep it in power. It was put into power for one core function; to prevent the nascent political, social and economic liberalisation of Thai society which arose with the arrival of new technologies and communications, which have allowed a (younger) population which has long been kept ill educated and dependent for any advancement on its elders and sponsors, to communicate, educate themselves and develop business independent of those elders and sponsors. The Covid crisis was in a dimension beyond that, and it's timid, chaotic "rabbit in the headlights" response to the challenges it brought were simply because it did not know how to react, other than to use some of the opportunities to exercise power, in pursuit of that core function, which the social and political restrictions they argue the disease has necessitated, and granted them.