Israel is at War - General discussion (pt2)

[Eloquent pilgrim]

3 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Hamas did not take these hostages during a war, it's not rocket Science. 

 

Oh, that’s okay then is it ? abducting 39 children many aged 2, 3, 4, and 5 years old. An eight month old baby, still not released, old holocaust survivors, and the disabled.

 

And here you are defending Hamas on some facile technicality;

[Neeranam]

18 minutes ago, Hawaiian said:

 

The war began as soon as Hamas went on their rampage, albeit an undeclared war.

Seems as if you classify collateral deaths by targeted bombing and shelling as atrocities the same as the slaughtering of civilians, rapes and hostage taking of civilians.

I know, I was saying that it wasn't a war crime but a terrorist act. Do you disagree?

Death is worse than rape or hostage taking, IMHO. 

[Hawaiian]

 

 

3 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

 

   Why is it not a war crime ?

Taking hostages is a war crime 

Hamas took hostages .

Why isn't that a war crime ?

Because Neeranam claims there was no war when the hostage taking took place.  Even if not classified as a war crime it still does not lessen seriousness of the offenses, especially because of the sickening way in which the hostages were taken.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Hawaiian
Double quote

[Wobblybob]

39 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

The number of deaths for a start, 10-1 ish. 

What the hell has that got to with anything, it's not a case of we'll kill 1,400 Gazans then call it quits, this is not a revenge attack, it is an attempt to stop further atrocities being committed by these brainwashed inhuman creatures purporting to be human beings. 

Edited November 28, 2023 by Wobblybob

[Neeranam]

7 hours ago, Hawaiian said:

 

 

Because Neeranam claims there was no war when the hostage taking took place.  Even if not classified as a war crime it still does not lessen seriousness of the offenses, especially because of the sickening way in which the hostages were taken.

It is not me, it is the definition of the term. 

You seem to think that by me saying Hamas didn't commit a war crime on Oct 7 that I condone it, jeez. 

War crimes

According to the UN, a war crime is an illegal action or set of actions that violate international humanitarian law, which is designed to protect civilians.

War crimes are always carried out intentionally and always take place in times of international or non-international armed conflict.

 

https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20231021-experts-say-hamas-and-israel-are-breaking-international-law-but-what-does-that-mean

[Hawaiian]

8 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I know, I was saying that it wasn't a war crime but a terrorist act. Do you disagree?

Death is worse than rape or hostage taking, IMHO. 

I see you love to argue over semantics.  War crimes and terrorist acts,

same heinous crimes, just categorized differently.

[Lemsta69]

5 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Death is worse than rape or hostage taking, IMHO. 

 

You still don't get it dude, the adherents of the religion of pieces welcome death. Shihad give you instant entry into Al Jannah even if you've just beheaded a baby or are a serial rapist or murderer or worse, if you held hands with your girlfriend in public.

 

Islam doesn't mean peace, it means "surrender to the will of Allah" and once you're in you're in, apostasy is punishable by, wait for it...death. Sounds like a fkn Slayer song.

 

So you should be happy every time a Palestinian Muslim dies, safe in the knowledge that they're on an express elevator to the awaiting houris. For the males of fighting age* anyway, not sure what the women and children get but it's probably sweet FA given what they're entitled to during their earthly lives.

 

* not exactly sure what that age is, I think 10 and above? Or big enough to hold a Kalashnikov? 🤷

[Hawaiian]

7 hours ago, Neeranam said:

It is not me, it is the definition of the term. 

You seem to think that by me saying Hamas didn't commit a war crime on Oct 7 that I condone it, jeez. 

War crimes

According to the UN, a war crime is an illegal action or set of actions that violate international humanitarian law, which is designed to protect civilians.

War crimes are always carried out intentionally and always take place in times of international or non-international armed conflict.

 

https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20231021-experts-say-hamas-and-israel-are-breaking-international-law-but-what-does-that-mean

If you condemn this savagery, then say so instead of skirting the issue.  This is what trolls do.

[Hawaiian]

7 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

What the hell has that got to with anything, it's not a case of we'll kill 1,400 Gazans then call it quits, this is not a revenge attack, it is an attempt to stop further atrocities being committed by these brainwashed inhuman creatures purporting to be human beings. 

You have to excuse him.  He does not think logically.

[Neeranam]

1 minute ago, Lemsta69 said:

 

You still don't get it dude, the adherents of the religion of pieces welcome death. Shihad give you instant entry into Al Jannah even if you've just beheaded a baby or are a serial rapist or murderer or worse, if you held hands with your girlfriend in public.

 

Islam doesn't mean peace, it means "surrender to the will of Allah" and once you're in you're in, apostasy is punishable by, wait for it...death. Sounds like a fkn Slayer song.

 

So you should be happy every time a Palestinian Muslim dies, safe in the knowledge that they're on an express elevator to the awaiting houris. For the males of fighting age* anyway, not sure what the women and children get but it's probably sweet FA given what they're entitled to during their earthly lives.

 

* not exactly sure what that age is, I think 10 and above? Or big enough to hold a Kalashnikov? 🤷

Rather Islamophobic post full of untruths/mistranslations. I've also heard people say similar things about what's written in the Old Testament. I'm not a Muslim. I would rather be raped or taken hostage than killed, wouldn't you? 

 

[Neeranam]

3 minutes ago, Hawaiian said:

If you condemn this savagery, then say so instead of skirting the issue.  This is what trolls do.

What are you on about, of course I don't condone this. Not sure why you are trolling me. 

[Nick Carter icp]

24 minutes ago, Hawaiian said:

 

 

Because Neeranam claims there was no war when the hostage taking took place.  Even if not classified as a war crime it still does not lessen seriousness of the offenses, especially because of the sickening way in which the hostages were taken.

 

   He previously claimed that the war began in 1948 and that the Hamas invasion of Israel wasn't the cause of the war , that claim was made to suggest that Hamas didn't cause this war .

   Now that's a bit inconvenient in regards to war crimes by Hamas , he now says that the war began a few days after the attack and when all the hostages had already been taken .

   Its just one excuse after the other with no coherence .

  The war began on October 7 th when Hamas crossed the border and the first shots were fired

[Hawaiian]

10 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

What are you on about, of course I don't condone this. Not sure why you are trolling me. 

If you can't take the heat, then get out of the kitchen.

[Neeranam]

23 minutes ago, Hawaiian said:

I see you love to argue over semantics.  War crimes and terrorist acts,

same heinous crimes, just categorized differently.

I've no idea who you are but stop making this up. I never said I condone the Hamas attack, 

I never said that I support Hamas in any way.

I am not arguing over anything, I was correcting someone who said the Oct 7 attack was a war crime, it's not. 

Do you think it was a war crime? 

[Hawaiian]

2 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   He previously claimed that the war began in 1948 and that the Hamas invasion of Israel wasn't the cause of the war , that claim was made to suggest that Hamas didn't cause this war .

   Now that's a bit inconvenient in regards to war crimes by Hamas , he now says that the war began a few days after the attack and when all the hostages had already been taken .

   Its just one excuse after the other with no coherence .

  The war began on October 7 th when Hamas crossed the border and the first shots were fired

That is exactly what I said in another post, "albeit an undeclared war."

[Lemsta69]

11 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Rather Islamophobic post full of untruths/mistranslations. I've also heard people say similar things about what's written in the Old Testament. I'm not a Muslim. I would rather be raped or taken hostage than killed, wouldn't you? 

 

 

Untruths/mistranslations, say what?

 

It's one hundred percent correct and yes if course I'm an "Islamophobe". You know that that's just a woke term for kufr, right?

 

You know what that kufr means unbeliever, right? Or are you going to claim that that's a misinterpretation or a mistranslation? 

 

And you know what fair is in store for the kufr/dhimmi, right? You should be quaking with fear at the thought of what's in store for you when Al Khalifa comes to a town near you.

 

As for your final question, yes of course I'd prefer to stay alive but I haven't been brainwashed from birth into believing that Shahid/Jihad is the true path to paradise.

 

You're awfully naive for someone who spends so much time on here telling us how clever they are.

[Hawaiian]

8 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I've no idea who you are but stop making this up. I never said I condone the Hamas attack, 

I never said that I support Hamas in any way.

I am not arguing over anything, I was correcting someone who said the Oct 7 attack was a war crime, it's not. 

Do you think it was a war crime? 

I never accused you of what you are claiming.  Stop the BS.  I said it before and I will say it again, this conflict (for your sake, WAR) began when Hamas first attacked on October 7, 2023)  Therefore, I would say they committed war crimes by their savage acts. If there is no war why is Hamas firing rockets?

If there is no war, why the cease fire? 

Edited November 28, 2023 by Hawaiian
Additional comment.

[coolcarer]

7 hours ago, Neeranam said:

It is not me, it is the definition of the term. 

You seem to think that by me saying Hamas didn't commit a war crime on Oct 7 that I condone it, jeez. 

War crimes

According to the UN, a war crime is an illegal action or set of actions that violate international humanitarian law, which is designed to protect civilians.

War crimes are always carried out intentionally and always take place in times of international or non-international armed conflict.

 

https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20231021-experts-say-hamas-and-israel-are-breaking-international-law-but-what-does-that-mean

Dude, every time Hamas fires a rocket at Israel it is a war crime. They have fired thousands. Get your facts straight. Their rockers are fired indiscriminately at civilian targets. 

[richard_smith237]

11 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I am not arguing over anything, I was correcting someone who said the Oct 7 attack was a war crime, it's not. 

Do you think it was a war crime? 

 

Act of terrorism then ???

[Bkk Brian]

3 hours ago, Neeranam said:

You are lying. I have no bias here. What ground do you think I have for having bias? Shouldn't be hard to answer if you think it is obvious. 

 

An American Jew is likely to be biased, as is a British Muslim. I am neither Muslim nor Jewish, although I respect both religions.

Did you forget endorsing this anti-Semitic and racist post?

 

 

[Hawaiian]

29 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I've no idea who you are but stop making this up. I never said I condone the Hamas attack, 

I never said that I support Hamas in any way.

I am not arguing over anything, I was correcting someone who said the Oct 7 attack was a war crime, it's not. 

Do you think it was a war crime? 

Who am I?  I am an 84 year old retired military veteran living in peaceful Hawaii.  I was born here and so were my parents.  I grew up in a multicultural society and learned to work and get along with everyone, no matter their ethnicity or religious beliefs.

My Thai girlfriend and I have visited Thailand once or twice a year for the past 30 years.  I find it difficult to understand how you are so conflicted with your beliefs.  None of my Thai friends think like you do.  Neither does any of my girl's family members.  Have a good day.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Hawaiian
clarification

[Nick Carter icp]

27 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I've no idea who you are but stop making this up. I never said I condone the Hamas attack, 

 

 

   Saying that the mass murdering rapist war criminal attack on October 7 th was just some rules being broken  is kind of condoning the Hamas attack 

[BarraMarra]

Why doesn't every member simply ignore Haw Haw your just feeding him. He will never join in with the current thread his agenda is to wind up members so they break forum rules and the thread gets locked like the last one.

[Hawaiian]

Just now, BarraMarra said:

Why doesn't every member simply ignore Haw Haw your just feeding him. He will never join in with the current thread his agenda is to wind up members so they break forum rules and the thread gets locked like the last one.

Count me in.

[Nick Carter icp]

1 minute ago, Hawaiian said:

Who am I?  I am an 84 year old retired military veteran living in peaceful Hawaii.  I was born here and so were my parents.  I grew up in a multicultural society and learned to work and get along with everyone, no matter their ethnicity or religious beliefs.

My Thai girlfriend and I visit Thailand once or twice a year for the past 30 years.  I find it difficult to understand how you are so conflicted with your beliefs.  None of my Thai friends think like you do.  Neither does any of my girl's family members.  Have a good day.

 

  He's not really Thai, he is Scottish who got a Thai passport recently 

[ezzra]

I would like to paint a wild scenario to all of you, whereby Israel army is weak and unable to defend the country, imagine if you will, the Hamas and other terrorist groups in Gaza and the west bank having fighter planes, tanks,armoured vehicles, a navy with attack ships and boats and hundreds of thousands of fighting men, and all the above were over running every town and city in Israel, do you think, for one moment, that Hamas would have stopped pause and  observe the international laws of engagement and be fair and just when dealing with Israeli citizens? do you think that the thought of committing 'war crimes' would have stopped them from slathering innocent people and children and putting a baby in the oven while the parents watching?...

Edited November 28, 2023 by ezzra

[coolcarer]

41 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I've no idea who you are but stop making this up. I never said I condone the Hamas attack, 

I never said that I support Hamas in any way.

I am not arguing over anything, I was correcting someone who said the Oct 7 attack was a war crime, it's not. 

Do you think it was a war crime? 

Apparently you place great faith in amnesty international considering their links you post. You should also read this one on Hamas war crimes.

 

Amnesty International has published its initial findings on war crimes committed by Hamas and Palestinian armed groups including mass summary executions, hostage-taking, and the firing of inherently indiscriminate rockets.
https://www.amnesty.or.th/en/latest/news/1178/#:~:text=Amnesty International has published its,firing of inherently indiscriminate rockets.

[Neeranam]

33 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Act of terrorism then ???

Yes

[coolcarer]

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

Yes

War crimes actually but also carried out by terrorists

[richard_smith237]

48 minutes ago, Hawaiian said:

I never accused you of what you are claiming.  Stop the BS.  I said it before and I will say it again, this conflict (for your sake, WAR) began when Hamas first attacked on October 7, 2023)  Therefore, I would say they committed war crimes by their savage acts. If there is no war why is Hamas firing rockets?

If there is no war, why the cease fire? 

 

An act of terrorism by Hamas on October 7th lead to a declaration of war against Hamas by Israel the following day on October 8th. 

 

What has happened since then - Hamas firing rockets indiscriminately into Israeli area's of civilian population is a war crime (as you put it), and placing their armaments  in specific civilian areas using human shields (hospitals and schools).

 

Its still unclear as to exactly who caused the hospital blast.

- Either Israel firing a rocket at the hospital. 

- Hamas blew themselves up.

 

Mounting evidence (which could be presented with a strong degree of bias by the media) suggests a Hamas rocket station blew up - either by accident or to claim the Israeli's did it so they could garner international support. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by richard_smith237