Iran says it helped broker release of Thais held in Gaza

[richard_smith237]

3 minutes ago, Gknrd said:

Well, Thailand should open up and give them 90 day free visa's. Free retirement visas .  Be able to buy land and businesses in Thailand. 

The south of Thailand should be granted it's independance. And free for all Muslims to enter.  

 

The issue with that of course is that this has happened before....    Lebanon opened up its borders for the Palestinians and very soon Palestinian militants triggered the Lebanese civil war - I don't think the Muslims of the South of Thailand would want them...   for the same reason no nearby Arab nation wants them.

 

Why cant they cross into Egypt ???   because Egypt knows that when allowing an influx of refugees they also allow militant terrorists and fundamentalists who seek to destabilise - their goal is Caliphate. 

[billd766]

13 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I dont know why regular Palestinians would be spitting on one of their own... Yet there have been videos circulating of them spitting on the dead Jewish German girl as she was paraded through the street.

 

 

More importantly, how many Palestinians were killed by IDF in the year before October 7th ???... 

Israels actions are always retaliatory. 

 

 

 

I agree with this statment, but would remove 'blood lust'...   many in the west felt the same about the Daesh.

 

 

 

Why is that the Western Leaders do not want to control him ? 

 

Could it be that they are privy to intelligence and not just a mix of media misinforming everyone ?

 

 

Back in 2014 weapons (rockets) were found in UNRWA schools...   Hamas using human sheilds.

 

Even with your bias, is could you accuse IDF of using human shields ???  the only argument you could have is to argue 'fake news'... 

 

Its starting to appear as though you are a Hamas supporter...  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nice try but I am not a Hamas supporter.

 

I am however a supporter of all the oppressed peoples across the world'

 

You OTH seem to accept as the truth everything that is pumped out by the Israeli government and the IDF, and don't seem to care about the innocent people worldwide who are slaughtered by their own and by invading governments and armies across the world.

 

I shall not bother to trade insults with you, as you are as biased in your opinion as you claim that I am.

[placnx]

18 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Israeli force is has always been purely retaliatory... its been swift, barbaric, extreme, exacting and excessive...   I dont think we (or I at least) are supporting the extent of response.... nevertheless, its a sad state of affairs that extreme responses are necessary in response to terrorism. 

 

If Palestine wanted peace, wouldn't they be prepared to discuss solutions and negotiate ??? (3x No's ring a bell ?)

How many times has Palestine rejected two state solutions ?

The closest they ever got was the Olso Accord and PLO denouncing terrorism... since then ???...  Hamas and terrorism. 

 

While I strongly support the innocents of Palestine and a two state solution, the people the Palestinians have not been permitted to vote on it...  Why not ???? - because they are led by a terror organisation that wont allow them to.

 

 

 

And you are very very wrong (IMO of course)... IF Hamas gave up their weapons and the Palestinians accepted a two state solution why would Israel have any want to get rid of regular Palestinians...  its only Hamas then want rid of (and where do we think many of the ISIL terrorists went to ????)... 

 

The battle for land has been taken over by religious fanatics and its become an Islamic crusade. 

 

 

 

 

Are you aware of the situation on the West Bank? The settlers with help from IDF are very active in sthnic cleansing by chasing Palestinians from small villages. The Zionist religious fanatics a/k/a settlers are an obstacle to a two-state solution.

[placnx]

18 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Another keyboard general arises....

 

Iran got quite an arsenal of missiles, drones, UAV's and so on perfectly able to hit Israel. Multiple times.And if Iran was cornered, then Iran's proxies would be unleashed as well - Hezbollah. the Houthis, Iraqi militias. All with similar capabilities (and one of them right on Israel's doorstep).

 

Israel's means of detecting and intercepting such attacks are formidable, but not omnipotent. Given that Israel is pretty small, this could go very badly, very quickly. There is no serious Israeli source I'm aware of that discounts these threats the way you do.

 

As for Israel's capacity to damage Iran - you're exaggerating. Even if, somehow, all of Israel's relevant fighter planes and long range drones made it to Iran and dropped their load, it would maybe cripple Iran some, but not destroy it or prevent the retaliation. Then there's the question of getting back home - easier said than done.

 

Maybe that keyboard general is alluding to using the nuclear arsenal. Seems like the only way to carry out his strategy.

Edited November 28, 2023 by placnx

[placnx]

18 hours ago, lordgrinz said:

 

Which they can and will, Iran is not going to be allowed to keep funneling weapons to terrorist groups unabated, you'd be naive to believe Israel will just sit back and let that continue to happen. I would expect Israel to bomb Iranian nuclear and military sites in the future, probably after they finish mopping up what's left of Hamas and Hezbollah fighters. 

While Israel would like every potential opponent to be disabled, with Iran the US would not want to go beyond the sanctions route.

[placnx]

17 hours ago, Gknrd said:

Well, Thailand should open up and give them 90 day free visa's. Free retirement visas .  Be able to buy land and businesses in Thailand. 

The south of Thailand should be granted it's independance. And free for all Muslims to enter.  

This reminds me of the Dany Danon op-ed in the Wall Street Journal where he proposed that the world take in the Gazans. Then Gaza would be free for all settler colonial Orthodox to enter!!

[placnx]

17 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Thats...  and yep, I agree...   We don't see IDF attacking in other Palestinian areas, because they don't need to because Hamas are not orchestrating their attacks from there and using the civilian population as human shields. 

 

 

This issue is polarising the stupid...   it seems if we're against against Hamas then we're supporting the IDF ergo we are against Palestinian people...  this is not the case... 

... its possible to feel very strongly for the plight of the Palestinians while abhorring the actions of terrorists from Gaza.

... at the same time its also very possible to support the Palestinians need for human rights and their own safe land while condemning the October 7th slaughter. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How could you be unaware of what is happening in the West Bank: Drone attacks, nightly raids, bulldozers tearing up streets in the refugee camps to destroy utilities, all courtesy of IDF.

[placnx]

On 11/27/2023 at 1:58 PM, John Drake said:

 

I thought everyone agreed that the Thais (and Filipinos and other SE Asian farmworkers) were innocent bystanders. What's there to negotiate. Just hand them over. They're not part of this war. Why is "negotiation" even a factor, here? They know where they are and how to get them out. But Hamas is simply extending the agony and terror for as long as they can get some psychopathic satisfaction out of it. Let the Thais and third party nationals all go.

There could be some reason, such as they are dead from an air strike, and the bodies are buried in rubble. Or they are held in a different area or by Islamic Jihad.

[placnx]

On 11/27/2023 at 2:23 PM, blazes said:

 

No, the war would not stop even if US and Iran stopped funding etc.

Why not?

Cos "from river to sea, Palestine shall be free" - in other words, Hamas and other similar terrorist groups will never give up on their fanatical determination to exterminate the Israeli population. 

And the settlers will not stop with their "from the river to the sea" unless the world stops them. For that, some major countries of the EU would have to rethink their policy.

[placnx]

22 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Here are some of those "minors" released by Israel 

 

 

 

 

   Israeli minors being held 

 

 

 

   Palestinians age quickly don't they 

 

 

 

Some were in prison quite a while. By the way, if one dies in prison, body is not returned until sentence is finished. I'm not sure what happens to those with multiple life sentences.

[Morch]

4 hours ago, placnx said:

Are you aware of the situation on the West Bank? The settlers with help from IDF are very active in sthnic cleansing by chasing Palestinians from small villages. The Zionist religious fanatics a/k/a settlers are an obstacle to a two-state solution.

 

Are you aware that the topic is not about the West Bank?

[Morch]

4 hours ago, placnx said:

This reminds me of the Dany Danon op-ed in the Wall Street Journal where he proposed that the world take in the Gazans. Then Gaza would be free for all settler colonial Orthodox to enter!!

 

And this is important, because Danon is....well, he's a nobody, with no political power and not much of a coherent agenda other than promoting himself.

[Morch]

4 hours ago, placnx said:

There could be some reason, such as they are dead from an air strike, and the bodies are buried in rubble. Or they are held in a different area or by Islamic Jihad.

 

In that case they can say we do not have them, we do not know what happened to them, the PIJ holds them and so on. Hamas is more into not providing information.

[Morch]

4 hours ago, placnx said:

And the settlers will not stop with their "from the river to the sea" unless the world stops them. For that, some major countries of the EU would have to rethink their policy.

 

You seem to be alright with one version of 'river to the sea' but not the other.

[Morch]

4 hours ago, placnx said:

Some were in prison quite a while. By the way, if one dies in prison, body is not returned until sentence is finished. I'm not sure what happens to those with multiple life sentences.

 

That is not correct. There is no such coherent policy as you suggest. That's bad it in it's own way, but not quite what you insinuate.

[Morch]

7 hours ago, billd766 said:

Nice try but I am not a Hamas supporter.

 

I am however a supporter of all the oppressed peoples across the world'

 

You OTH seem to accept as the truth everything that is pumped out by the Israeli government and the IDF, and don't seem to care about the innocent people worldwide who are slaughtered by their own and by invading governments and armies across the world.

 

I shall not bother to trade insults with you, as you are as biased in your opinion as you claim that I am.

 

@billd766

 

Not a Hamas supporter, but somehow manage spewing Hamas talking points on every other post. Fancy that.

 

In your mind, it seems that the 'oppressed people' have a right to do whatever - including all the stuff done on 7/10, by virtue of being 'oppressed', and without any context as to the circumstances of them being 'oppressed'. The 'oppressed' label, by itself, and once applied, is in your mind some get-out-of-prison card. A carte blanche for whatever. That's more or less one of the base tenets of the 'woke' ideology. Dichotomic divisions is the thing - no place for nuance, detail or context.

 

Quite cheeky for someone regurgitating Palestinian positions across multiple posts and topics to complain about Israeli/IDF propaganda. 

[placnx]

19 hours ago, Morch said:

 

And this is important, because Danon is....well, he's a nobody, with no political power and not much of a coherent agenda other than promoting himself.

He was Israel's UN ambassador. He's been interviewed on BBC HardTalk, and got an op-ed piece in the Wall Street Journal. His agenda is shared by others in the Israeli cabinet, but Nakba 2 is not something that the Israeli government wants to publicize. The operation to make northern Gaza unlivable could be a prelude to seizing that part of Gaza despite Biden's objections. That would also make a connection longer between the two parts of a future Palestinian state. The Greater Israel faction (including Netanyahu) does not want to see such a state anywhere between the River and the Sea. 

[placnx]

19 hours ago, Morch said:

 

In that case they can say we do not have them, we do not know what happened to them, the PIJ holds them and so on. Hamas is more into not providing information.

Two more Thais were released. Islamic Jihad just said that they have some of the hostages.

[placnx]

19 hours ago, Morch said:

 

That is not correct. There is no such coherent policy as you suggest. That's bad it in it's own way, but not quite what you insinuate.

Maybe you just don't know about it. 

"Since 2016, Israeli authorities have held Abed’s corpse in postmortem detention after Abed orchestrated a bus bombing in Jerusalem. He is one of at least 370 dead Palestinians whose bodies Israel’s military are keeping frozen in morgues or buried at undisclosed locations."

https://www.thenation.com/article/world/israel-postmortem-detention/

[placnx]

20 hours ago, Morch said:

 

You seem to be alright with one version of 'river to the sea' but not the other.

I am for a workable two-state solution.

[Morch]

41 minutes ago, placnx said:

He was Israel's UN ambassador. He's been interviewed on BBC HardTalk, and got an op-ed piece in the Wall Street Journal. His agenda is shared by others in the Israeli cabinet, but Nakba 2 is not something that the Israeli government wants to publicize. The operation to make northern Gaza unlivable could be a prelude to seizing that part of Gaza despite Biden's objections. That would also make a connection longer between the two parts of a future Palestinian state. The Greater Israel faction (including Netanyahu) does not want to see such a state anywhere between the River and the Sea. 

 

OK....the as far as Netnayahu, goes, the UN post is usually reserved for political rivals he wishes to derail. Hence Danon, and hence the current numpty. It does not indicate wielding much political power, the opposite.

 

As usual you go on with exaggerations, not bothering to support them with anything. There is no 'Nakba 2' plan. Northern Gaza is not 'unlivable' but in the same situation many urban war zones are.

 

What Netanyahu wants is to go on being PM and not going to prison. All the rest is immaterial. His coalition and party, currently face polls in which they would take a massive hit in favor of the Centrist-Left bloc.

[Morch]

40 minutes ago, placnx said:

Maybe you just don't know about it. 

"Since 2016, Israeli authorities have held Abed’s corpse in postmortem detention after Abed orchestrated a bus bombing in Jerusalem. He is one of at least 370 dead Palestinians whose bodies Israel’s military are keeping frozen in morgues or buried at undisclosed locations."

https://www.thenation.com/article/world/israel-postmortem-detention/

 

Yeah. There's a bit of context to that which you left out - namely Hamas not releasing bodies of dead Israelis (or giving information about Israelis held in the Gaza Strip - and that's referencing events before 7/10). This 'policy' is not uniformly applied, though. Sometimes Israel hands bodies back, sometimes not. Less so when it comes to Hamas men, I think. Personally, I think it's a very touching peace of journalism - pity the subject is a terrorist who planted a bomb in a bus.

[Morch]

43 minutes ago, placnx said:

I am for a workable two-state solution.

 

And you are aware that Hamas does not agree with you, right? It's not just Israel Bad.

[xylophone]

47 minutes ago, placnx said:

I am for a workable two-state solution.

Sorry to interrupt the discussion, which I found very interesting, as I'm not as au fait with the politics past and present of Israel/Hamas/Palestine/whomsoever as some of you guys.

 

But what I will say is that it would seem that a "workable two-state solution" is not workable because of the Hamas doctrine of wanting to kill all Israelis and wipe Israel off the face of the map, and as long as that exists, then a workable solution doesn't seem possible.

Edited November 29, 2023 by xylophone

[placnx]

20 hours ago, xylophone said:

Sorry to interrupt the discussion, which I found very interesting, as I'm not as au fait with the politics past and present of Israel/Hamas/Palestine/whomsoever as some of you guys.

 

But what I will say is that it would seem that a "workable two-state solution" is not workable because of the Hamas doctrine of wanting to kill all Israelis and wipe Israel off the face of the map, and as long as that exists, then a workable solution doesn't seem possible.

The two-state solution in 2000 was rejected by Arafat because it would have left too many settlements in place in the interior of the West Bank, so called "Swiss cheese". In the last two years, and especially after October 7th, the wanton behaviour of settlers with connaivance of IDF shows that Arafat was correct to refuse that offer. It shows that the Greater Israel settlers cannot remain in the West Bank for a workable two-state solution. The one thing that will defuse Hamas resistance is this workable two-state solution, where the Palestinians will have a bonafide sovereign state.

[Morch]

43 minutes ago, placnx said:

The two-state solution in 2000 was rejected by Arafat because it would have left too many settlements in place in the interior of the West Bank, so called "Swiss cheese". In the last two years, and especially after October 7th, the wanton behaviour of settlers with connaivance of IDF shows that Arafat was correct to refuse that offer. It shows that the Greater Israel settlers cannot remain in the West Bank for a workable two-state solution. The one thing that will defuse Hamas resistance is this workable two-state solution, where the Palestinians will have a bonafide sovereign state.

 

You're roundabout description of the Israeli proposal at the time is inaccurate. The issue was not so much with the offer on hand being a 'Swiss cheese' thing, but rather the West Bank area to be retained by the Palestinians being effectively split into 2-3 'cantons' (with territorial congruity within each such land parcel) - this was one major point of contention, the other being the haggling over exact scale of territorial land swaps. Under the Israeli offer (at the time) many Israeli settlements (especially the smaller one spread about the West Bank) would have been dismantled. Arafat's rejection was, I think, more to do with his personal inability to let go of the 'struggle', opposition within the Palestinian side, and perceived lack of support for the offer on the Israeli side.

 

One thing to take away from this is that the rejection did nothing to improve the situation of the Palestinians. In effect, it made things worse.

 

As for your 'diffuse' assertion, I think more like wishful thinking on your part - even if there was a possibility for such a workable two-state solution acceptable to both sides, and not sabotaged by their respective extremists.

[H1w4yR1da]

On 11/27/2023 at 2:56 AM, Thorgal said:

 

Iran had nothing to do with 7th of October attacks. Not even Hezbollah was informed of these Hamas attacks.

And you know this how? You have direct access to the upper echelons of Hamas and Hezbollah? Please! Iran is the main backer of Hamas and Hezbollah.
Also, I forgot to mention, the millions given to Hamas by misguided western governments and UN agencies, is used for weapons. Not DIY rockets as you ridiculously claim.

Edited November 30, 2023 by H1w4yR1da

[H1w4yR1da]

On 11/27/2023 at 12:50 PM, Thorgal said:

 

I didn't blame the messenger. The messenger his "credible links" were not reliable and too biased. It's based on Iranian opposition and I could not trace it on "mediabiasfactcheck" too. So I didn't blame anybody. I just pinpointed that the sources used are not reliable for me.

 

Writing : "Just say you have no clue at all, its fine..." without providing feedback or response to my post and not adding reliable links is...rather contradicting yourself. (LOL)

Biased? Your posts stink of support for Hamas and Iran. Saying that Israeli hostages were well-treated after seeing their family members murdered by Hamas gunmen.

The fact that you take anything the Iranian government says, with absolutely no proof, as gospel is, frankly, hilarious. And highly suspect.

Edited November 30, 2023 by H1w4yR1da

[Thorgal]

23 minutes ago, H1w4yR1da said:

And you know this how? You have direct access to the upper echelons of Hamas and Hezbollah? Please! Iran is the main backer of Hamas and Hezbollah.
Also, I forgot to mention, the millions given to Hamas by misguided western governments and UN agencies, is used for weapons. Not DIY rockets as you ridiculously claim.

 

Which (non DIY) weapons did Hamas purchased with foreign funds ?

 

Please provide proof that Iran was participating in the 7th October attack against Israel ? 

[Thorgal]

22 minutes ago, H1w4yR1da said:

Biased? Your posts stink of support for Hamas and Iran. Saying that Israeli hostages were well-treated after seeing their family members murdered by Hamas gunmen.

The fact that you take anything the Iranian government says, with absolutely no proof, as gospel is, frankly, hilarious. And highly suspect.

 

Pure sort of Iranian McCarthyism. 

 

Hamas could not provide 100% full safety of the Israeli hostages due to constant Israeli carpet bombing.

 

Hamas could not provide 100% full comfort as food, medicines, healthcare etc... to the Israeli hostages due to blockade of Israel and the indiscriminate bombing of Gaza hospitals.

 

Anything else that smelts bad ?