Big Brother is on his way.

[Chomper Higgot]

“The DWP will oblige the UK’s top 15 banks to monitor the accounts of all means-tested benefits claimants and report any instances where an account exceeds the capital limit or is used abroad for more than four weeks.”

 

https://www.freelanceinformer.com/news/ministers-rushed-through-amendment-that-gives-government-access-to-bank-accounts-of-anyone-claiming-a-state-pension-and-benefits/

[Chomper Higgot]

And of particular interest to many expats in Thailand:

 

“The House of Commons Library makes it absolutely clear that the Bill, if taken forward in the way that the Government are proposing at the moment, does allow the Government to look at people in receipt of state pensions.”

[treetops]

£6.5 billion GBP lost in benefit fraud last year so not surprised it's getting adressed, and good to read the claims they're not going after state pension claimants, even if it's just a matter of time.  There's probably much bigger fish to be had before they get round to overseas pensioners.

[Chomper Higgot]

19 minutes ago, treetops said:

£6.5 billion GBP lost in benefit fraud last year so not surprised it's getting adressed, and good to read the claims they're not going after state pension claimants, even if it's just a matter of time.  There's probably much bigger fish to be had before they get round to overseas pensioners.

Link please.

[treetops]

22 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Link please.

 

The cost is mentioned here with a claimed source of the Public Accounts Committee.

 

https://www.motorsportaccountant.co.uk/blog/Business-advice-for-motorsport-businesses/Astonishing-levels-of-benefit-fraud

 

[Denim]

Time to open an account at the UK's 16th biggest bank.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, treetops said:

 

The cost is mentioned here with a claimed source of the Public Accounts Committee.

 

https://www.motorsportaccountant.co.uk/blog/Business-advice-for-motorsport-businesses/Astonishing-levels-of-benefit-fraud

 

There’s a few problems with the data, not least of all:

 

“The Department assumes that all claims from Universal Credit claimants who choose “not to engage” with DWP’s fraud and error measurement exercises are fraudulent but admits that it has no statistically significant information to support this view.”

 

https://committees.parliament.uk/work/6765/department-for-work-and-pensions-accounts-202122/news/174208/pac-dwp-excuses-for-unprecedented-and-unacceptable-levels-of-benefit-fraud-and-error-dont-stand-up/#:~:text=PAC reports today that “levels,figure was due to fraud.

[treetops]

8 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

There’s a few problems with the data, not least of all:

 

“The Department assumes that all claims from Universal Credit claimants who choose “not to engage” with DWP’s fraud and error measurement exercises are fraudulent but admits that it has no statistically significant information to support this view.”

 

https://committees.parliament.uk/work/6765/department-for-work-and-pensions-accounts-202122/news/174208/pac-dwp-excuses-for-unprecedented-and-unacceptable-levels-of-benefit-fraud-and-error-dont-stand-up/#:~:text=PAC reports today that “levels,figure was due to fraud.

 

Everyone could pick holes in all sorts of data, and make statistics tell any story they want depending on what argument they are trying to make.  Even if the figures are 50% out (unlikely IMO as genuine claimants will most likely engage when approached) over £3 billion GBP from the public purse is still at stake and should be pursued by any practical means possible.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, treetops said:

 

Everyone could pick holes in all sorts of data, and make statistics tell any story they want depending on what argument they are trying to make.  Even if the figures are 50% out (unlikely IMO as genuine claimants will most likely engage when approached) over £3 billion GBP from the public purse is still at stake and should be pursued by any practical means possible.

You do understand the principle of innocent until proven guilty?

 

If the suspect you have committed a crime and want to look in your bank account for evidence they need first present just cause to a judge to obtain a search warrant.

 

This prosed change to the law is a significant departure from centuries of common law practice.

 

Oddly going after alleged benefit fraud while ignoring the multiple times larger tax dodging. 

[herfiehandbag]

Presumably the interest in pensioners living overseas is aimed at discovering who is claiming the pension, and various top ups, which overseas resident pensioners are not entitled to!

 

It is difficult to conclude that doing so is not fraudulent! 

 

Perhaps a good starting point would be checking those who do not bother with a bus pass?

[treetops]

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You do understand the principle of innocent until proven guilty?

 

If the suspect you have committed a crime and want to look in your bank account for evidence they need first present just cause to a judge to obtain a search warrant.

 

This prosed change to the law is a significant departure from centuries of common law practice.

 

Oddly going after alleged benefit fraud while ignoring the multiple times larger tax dodging. 

 

Are you really claiming that requiring banks to report what is being asked is a bad idea for the UK's finances?  Times have changed, fraudsters have changed, the law needs to change to keep up.

 

And I doubt very much whether larger scale fraudsters are being ignored.

[Tropicalevo]

14 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You do understand the principle of innocent until proven guilty?

Not true in UK Banking.

I had an account with Nat West in Jersey (Tax free. I have lived overseas for years).

I was connected to a friend (business connection) who was murdered by a wanted scammer in the USA. Because the scammer was wanted for money laundering, my bank account was frozen until I could prove that all monies were obtained legally.

That took nine months to prove as it covered multiple countries. I had to live on loans and a credit card during that time.

Once I proved my innocence, the money was released and the account was closed.

[pub2022]

You haven't seen nothing yet.

Wait till cash will disappear replaced by digital currencies only.

1984 will appear a joke compared to.

PS: and don't forget to always pay s-can

[Tropicalevo]

16 minutes ago, herfiehandbag said:

Perhaps a good starting point would be checking those who do not bother with a bus pass?

Not a good starting point.

I never bothered with a bus pass as I retired long after I left the UK.

I told the pension people that I lived overseas and I also gave them a UK address for banking etc. I receive only the basic OAP.

My government and private pensions are the only monies being paid into my bank account and the revenue people know about all of them.

[BritManToo]

3 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

“The DWP will oblige the UK’s top 15 banks to monitor the accounts of all means-tested benefits claimants and report any instances where an account exceeds the capital limit or is used abroad for more than four weeks.”

 

https://www.freelanceinformer.com/news/ministers-rushed-through-amendment-that-gives-government-access-to-bank-accounts-of-anyone-claiming-a-state-pension-and-benefits/

The UK bank I'm with would cancel my account if they thought I lived overseas.

So obviously the DWP is out of luck.

[BritManToo]

31 minutes ago, Tropicalevo said:

Not a good starting point.

I never bothered with a bus pass as I retired long after I left the UK.

Where I lived there was no public transport, just a Tesco shuttle bus that was free to everyone.

[herfiehandbag]

1 hour ago, Tropicalevo said:

Not a good starting point.

I never bothered with a bus pass as I retired long after I left the UK.

I told the pension people that I lived overseas and I also gave them a UK address for banking etc. I receive only the basic OAP.

My government and private pensions are the only monies being paid into my bank account and the revenue people know about all of them.

Well yes, you have been totally transparent, so there would be no cause for an investigation.

 

However, the case I postulate is someone receiving a pension (to which he/she is entitled), and claiming Pension Credit, winter fuel allowance, all of which require one to live in the UK, but actually living abroad, and therefore not bothering with a bus pass.

 

Still, it was just a casual thought.

[Chomper Higgot]

The reports of fraud are frequently reported as a single sum of fraud and errors.

 

Well here’s some errors:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2023/dec/06/dwp-errors-leave-more-than-200000-pensioners-out-of-pocket