Bank transfer after 1st Jan or now?

[khunPer]

  On 12/11/2023 at 8:18 AM, kwak250 said:

I was planning on transferring around £100k early next year for a planned house build but would it be better to do this before 1st Jan to avoid any of the taxes that are planned.

 

The money has been sat in a UK bank for years but has money constantly being deposited and withdrawn so not sure how it could Be proven either way where it came from or when it was actually obtained as the account can have anywhere from 75k to over 150k 

 

Just feel that I should transfer now rather than give a chunk to the tax man after 1st Jan .

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If I was you, I would do it before 1st January, as we still don't know any details about how transfers eventual will be taxed from next year; I actually transferred savings for my next car this month of same reason.

 

You can deposit the funds in a fixed account for best interest – for example 3 month or longer – if you are not going to use the money right away. Note that the banks guarantee is 1 million baht, so if you feel unsafe, you can split the savings over a number of banks. So-called Fund Books with low risk are also a possibility, I use that, as there is no binding period to obtain gain/interest.

[Card]

  On 12/11/2023 at 11:36 PM, UWEB said:

So you think they will keep money from every Transfer into Thailand, even if somebody is not Tax Resident? Sorry,B...S..

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It seems the easiest and least complicated for the tax dept. The onus then rests on the banks to ask questions and the recipient to answer honestly, just as with any tax return, as to the origin of the expat transfers using a simple questionaire, along with visa status, home country etc. I was recently asked such questions for no apparent reason by my Thai bank. The answers to the questions can then be automatically sent to the tax dept.

[Card]

  On 12/14/2023 at 7:12 AM, CMBob said:

Unfortunately, presuming the new tax law takes effect with all its glory (not), I just watched a video of a tax lawyer in BKK who said it will be up to the person to prove the money transferred wasn't from earnings or is exempt under an existing tax treaty.  I know the OP said it was "savings" but the tax lawyer argued that it would be treated as earnings (as that's likely where originally it came from) unless you can prove an exemption.  So best advice is for OP to transfer before the end of this month and avoid any possible issue.

One issue that bothers me is that certain things (for examples only, inherited money or US social security earnings) are exempt from taxation here in Thailand; however, when transferring funds from a common account (where you keep all kinds of things - interest, dividends, prior earnings, etc., etc. - how does one satisfactorily prove you only transferred inherited funds, social security funds, etc.?

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By starting to have separate bank accounts for such assets.

[topt]

  On 12/14/2023 at 9:35 AM, Card said:

By starting to have separate bank accounts for such assets.

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Maybe easy where you are from but if you had ever tried to open a bank account in the UK from Thailand recently you wouldn't give such a blase suggestion.

[Ralf001]

  On 12/14/2023 at 9:17 AM, khunPer said:

I actually transferred savings for my next car this month of same reason.

 

 

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Savings is not income.

 

Income is the focus of this "new" tax.

[daveAustin]

^^^ Prove it.

[connda]

  On 12/11/2023 at 10:44 AM, CharlieKo said:

So anything transferred before that date will not get caught up in the new rules.

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What "new rules" as, from what I can ascertain, there hasn't been a peep from the Thai government regarding how they plan to implement this plan.  Personally I wonder if they even know. 

We'll find out after January 1st 2024.  If they end up hammering foreign funds transfers into Thailand and disenfranchising foreign capital from moving into Thailand?  Perhaps they'll revisit their initial plan.

Everyone can wring their hands and sweat this issue, but honestly, you and everyone else isn't going to know the full effect of this decision until about Feb 1st 2024.  In between Jan 1st and Feb 1st?  Listen for screaming and wailing from the expat community.

[PBob]

What are the chances of them coming up with a clever scheme that everyone understands. With a cadre of English speaking officers conversant with taxation in Thailand and other countties.

 

I think we will get some half baked scheme for a couple of months that will screw up foreign transfers before being dropped.

 

I would ensure that you have enough cash in Thailand before the new year.

[Baht Simpson]

  On 12/14/2023 at 1:57 AM, Yellowtail said:

You must all be right-wingers if you're trying to avoid paying taxes.

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It's not avoiding tax per se, it's avoiding double-taxation.

[Yellowtail]

  On 12/14/2023 at 12:03 PM, Baht Simpson said:

It's not avoiding tax per se, it's avoiding double-taxation.

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The US has a tax treaty with Thailand where I think you're not doubled-taxed on the first ~$150K of income. 

 

Where are you from?

[Baht Simpson]

There's no easy answer to this. If you wait and the rate drops from its current 44 to 39 you'll have lost out. If it goes up to 50 you'll have gained. Personally for that sort of amount I'd transfer now and I can only see modest changes in the next few weeks.

[Baht Simpson]

  On 12/14/2023 at 12:10 PM, Yellowtail said:

The US has a tax treaty with Thailand where I think you're not doubled-taxed on the first ~$150K of income. 

 

Where are you from?

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Yes, I'm well aware of that but your dig was at left-wingers avoiding tax. All of us want to avoid paying an unfair double-tax, which is the possible but unlikely issue here. It's not about politics, it affects everybody the same and it's wise to show financial prudence. 

 

 

[The Theory]

"When you set up your transfer, we estimated that your money would get to us today. But this time, it’s taking a little longer to arrive. Your money will now get to us in 3 working days. As soon as it gets here, we’ll convert it. Then we’ll send it out to your recipient. You can track your transfer from your Wise account." estimated that will take 6 days. 🤔🤨🙁 Is this delay because of last days of Dec ? Or just an excuse for not transferring since the rate was good at the time !!! whatever it is I can't rely on Wise anymore.

[newnative]

Send the money now.  I'm doing 3 transfers from the US to fund 2024 spending.

[khunPer]

  On 12/14/2023 at 10:42 AM, Ralf001 said:

Savings is not income.

 

Income is the focus of this "new" tax.

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Not if you read, what so far has been said by the government – saving might be taxed as interest.

[Neeranam]

  On 12/14/2023 at 7:12 AM, CMBob said:

One issue that bothers me is that certain things (for examples only, inherited money or US social security earnings) are exempt from taxation here in Thailand

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What do you mean inherited money is not taxable here? As a dual citizen, UK/Thai, if I sell my mother's house in UK when she dies, do I not have to pay inheritance tax?

[daveAustin]

  On 12/14/2023 at 11:12 AM, connda said:

What "new rules" as, from what I can ascertain, there hasn't been a peep from the Thai government regarding how they plan to implement this plan.  Personally I wonder if they even know. 

We'll find out after January 1st 2024.  If they end up hammering foreign funds transfers into Thailand and disenfranchising foreign capital from moving into Thailand?  Perhaps they'll revisit their initial plan.

Everyone can wring their hands and sweat this issue, but honestly, you and everyone else isn't going to know the full effect of this decision until about Feb 1st 2024.  In between Jan 1st and Feb 1st?  Listen for screaming and wailing from the expat community.

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Indeed, but if you were going to transfer in a few months anyway, is it not best to do so now to remove all doubt?

[CMBob]

  On 12/15/2023 at 2:16 AM, Neeranam said:

What do you mean inherited money is not taxable here? As a dual citizen, UK/Thai, if I sell my mother's house in UK when she dies, do I not have to pay inheritance tax?

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Well, inheritances are pretty much tax free here in Thailand (if under 100,000,000 baht).  As to what you have to pay in the UK, I have no clue.

And, maybe it's a problem if you transfer the UK inheritance proceeds into Thailand as perhaps a Treasury official requires you to prove that the funds transferred are inheritance funds.  As to tax issues here (Thailand), it depends on whether you're a tax resident in Thailand, how the "new Thai tax" law is amended/interpreted, etc., etc.

[Neeranam]

  On 12/15/2023 at 6:21 AM, CMBob said:

Well, inheritances are pretty much tax free here in Thailand (if under 100,000,000 baht).  As to what you have to pay in the UK, I have no clue.

And, maybe it's a problem if you transfer the UK inheritance proceeds into Thailand as perhaps a Treasury official requires you to prove that the funds transferred are inheritance funds.  As to tax issues here (Thailand), it depends on whether you're a tax resident in Thailand, how the "new Thai tax" law is amended/interpreted, etc., etc.

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It's 40% tax in the UK, hence my interest about how to avoid paying this much.

[CMBob]

  On 12/15/2023 at 7:04 AM, Neeranam said:

It's 40% tax in the UK, hence my interest about how to avoid paying this much.

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The subject of the thread is possible tax here in Thailand for expats who happen to be tax residents here.  If you're concerned about inheritance/estate taxes in the UK, maybe contact a UK accountant (it isn't the topic here).

[Card]

  On 12/14/2023 at 10:36 AM, topt said:

Maybe easy where you are from but if you had ever tried to open a bank account in the UK from Thailand recently you wouldn't give such a blase suggestion.

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Then you should have thought it through better before u left blighty instead of being blasé about it 

[Neeranam]

  On 12/14/2023 at 11:12 AM, connda said:

What "new rules" as, from what I can ascertain, there hasn't been a peep from the Thai government regarding how they plan to implement this plan.  Personally I wonder if they even know. 

We'll find out after January 1st 2024.  If they end up hammering foreign funds transfers into Thailand and disenfranchising foreign capital from moving into Thailand?  Perhaps they'll revisit their initial plan.

Everyone can wring their hands and sweat this issue, but honestly, you and everyone else isn't going to know the full effect of this decision until about Feb 1st 2024.  In between Jan 1st and Feb 1st?  Listen for screaming and wailing from the expat community.

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This law has nothing to do with foreigners, well that's what some guys in the government told me.

[Eudaimonia]

If you had income in 2023 and remit that money now (in the same tax year), it's taxable. If you send on 1 January 2024, it will not be taxable. The choice seems pretty obvious.

[daveAustin]

Or if you have income in 2024 and remit in the same year it’s taxable, if you send in 2025 it’s not. Is the ‘scheme’ starting from 2024 or including current tax year?

[topt]

  On 12/21/2023 at 12:02 AM, daveAustin said:

Or if you have income in 2024 and remit in the same year it’s taxable, if you send in 2025 it’s not. Is the ‘scheme’ starting from 2024 or including current tax year?

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Supposedly starting 1st January 2024 so any 2024 income remitted in 2024 would potentially be taxable in 2025 and if sent 2025 taxable in 2026 - Thai tax filing is 1st Jan to 31st March.

[Eudaimonia]

Again, if you had income in 2023 and remit that money now (in the same tax year), it's taxable. If you send it on 1 January 2024, it will not be taxable. (You can send it later as well, but then it might be more difficult to prove it is pre-2024 income.) All new earnings from 1 January 2024 onwards will be taxable regardless of when remitted.