‘People will die in the streets’: Gaza dreads onset of winter as disease rises

[Morch]

7 hours ago, ozimoron said:

 

So you're on board with thinking that no significant protests against, say the Saudi abuses or the Turkish and Syrian slaughter of Kurds occurred in the west?

 

I'm on board with you stopping to twist what people say, allege things that weren't claimed and try to put words in other people's mouth.

 

[Hanaguma]

According to our friend Wikipedia, January is the coldest month in Gaza City- average high of 18 degrees, low of 10.

 

This is winter?

[scottiejohn]

40 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

According to our friend Wikipedia, January is the coldest month in Gaza City- average high of 18 degrees, low of 10.

 

This is winter?

The Temp at the moment there is 20C and 16F!

Are you quoting 18 or 10 degrees in either F or C?

Either way ask local Thais what they think of such low temps!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 13, 2023 by scottiejohn

[Hanaguma]

18 hours ago, scottiejohn said:

The Temp at the moment there is 20C and 16F!

Are you quoting 18 or 10 degrees in either F or C?

Either way ask local Thais what they think of such low temps!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

All celcius of course. Don't want to confuse my European friends!   Hardly 'winter' as most of us understand the term.

[Morch]

1 minute ago, Hanaguma said:

All celcius of course. Don't want to confuse my European friends!   Hardly 'winter' as most of us understand the term.

 

Add rain, no shelter, many not having blankets, tents or even warm clothes. Toss in a whole lot of kids.

It's not 'winter' in American standards, but its bad enough.

 

[Hanaguma]

Just now, Morch said:

 

Add rain, no shelter, many not having blankets, tents or even warm clothes. Toss in a whole lot of kids.

It's not 'winter' in American standards, but its bad enough.

 

According to Wikipedia, average 6.6 hours of sunshine a day in December/January, average of 4 inches of rain per month.  Or 10 centimetres. 

[Morch]

8 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

According to Wikipedia, average 6.6 hours of sunshine a day in December/January, average of 4 inches of rain per month.  Or 10 centimetres. 

 

Was raining the last couple of nights or so, from pictures and news reports. Again, maybe not a big deal indoors - different with no proper shelter.

[Neeranam]

4 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Add rain, no shelter, many not having blankets, tents or even warm clothes. Toss in a whole lot of kids.

It's not 'winter' in American standards, but its bad enough.

 

Indeed, and what happened to their houses? 

[Nick Carter icp]

On 12/12/2023 at 11:28 PM, richard_smith237 said:

 

Thats what confused me...  You argued with me, accused me of an echo chamber view of the world, then posted a link which completely agrees with me...   

 

So.. why don't people protest the human rights abuses in Saudi, or the 100's of thousands of deaths in Syria and Yemen... 

Yet, 100's of thousands took to the streets in protest of Israels reaction to Hamas ?

Why did no one protest 1700 Shia cadets getting massacred ?

Why was there not a million man march to protect the 7th October massacre of 1200 to 1400 Israeli festival goers ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

    There was a protest in London to protest against the way Iran were treating some of its people , about 100 people showed up for the march , seemed to be mainly Iranians there .

   The millions of anti Israel protestors stayed at home that day 

[Nick Carter icp]

14 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Indeed, and what happened to their houses? 

 

   They were used to fire rockets from and they got blown up 

[FruitPudding]

You mean, they aren't singing and dancing in the streets in celebration of Hamas killing innocent Israelis anymore?

[ozimoron]

8 minutes ago, FruitPudding said:

You mean, they aren't singing and dancing in the streets in celebration of Hamas killing innocent Israelis anymore?

 

Quite the opposite. A recent poll indicates that more people in the West Bank now consider that Hamas was right. The Israelis have done nothing other than increase support for Hamas and decrease support for the PLO. Who knew?

[Morch]

7 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Quite the opposite. A recent poll indicates that more people in the West Bank now consider that Hamas was right. The Israelis have done nothing other than increase support for Hamas and decrease support for the PLO. Who knew?

 

The West Bank is not the Gaza Strip. The people there do no live under Hamas rule. Nor do they face the same hardships Hamas decisions brought on the Gazans' heads. Maybe that makes the choice to 'support' easier.

[Rimmer]

Post and replies with a link behind a pay wall have been removed

[rickudon]

3 hours ago, Morch said:

 

The West Bank is not the Gaza Strip. The people there do no live under Hamas rule. Nor do they face the same hardships Hamas decisions brought on the Gazans' heads. Maybe that makes the choice to 'support' easier.

West Bank Palestinians were not involved in the Hamas attack. Hasn't stopped them being killed, arrested, work permits revoked, houses bulldozed by Jewish settlers, prevented from working and kept under curfew, and prevented from tending to their farms (especially olive groves, which should be being harvested). Guilt by association. Is it any wonder that hatred of Israel is increasing on the west bank?

[Nick Carter icp]

9 minutes ago, rickudon said:

West Bank Palestinians were not involved in the Hamas attack. Hasn't stopped them being killed, arrested, work permits revoked, houses bulldozed by Jewish settlers, prevented from working and kept under curfew, and prevented from tending to their farms (especially olive groves, which should be being harvested). Guilt by association. Is it any wonder that hatred of Israel is increasing on the west bank?

  

   Violence from West Bank Palestinians surged after the October 7 th terror attack , that is why Israel had to clamp down on their violent acts 

[Morch]

2 hours ago, rickudon said:

West Bank Palestinians were not involved in the Hamas attack. Hasn't stopped them being killed, arrested, work permits revoked, houses bulldozed by Jewish settlers, prevented from working and kept under curfew, and prevented from tending to their farms (especially olive groves, which should be being harvested). Guilt by association. Is it any wonder that hatred of Israel is increasing on the west bank?

 

I accept most of what you describe regarding what Palestinians face in the West Bank. And sure, that's an ongoing situation that was there well before 7/10. So, of course, they'd have legitimate reasons to hate Israel, regardless of the Hamas 7/10 attack.

 

However, the OP (and my post) are about a surge in support for Hamas among West Bank Palestinians. The hate is the same hate - but the political or activist flavor of the month is Hamas. It wasn't quite like that before the war.

 

The point you quote from my post was about it being easy enough to declare/express such support, when not having to face the actual implications entailed. Because harsh as things are in the West Bank, they aren't on par with the reality Gazans face. That goes for both Israel's actions and local governments'.

 

For reference, consider all them students protesting on USA colleges and universities. Forget many of them don't have a clue about anything much, we were all young once. But the thing is, they can protest, they can express political views not aligning with government, women protesting right along men, and so on. Most of that doesn't happen under Hamas rule. So West Bank Palestinians, while obviously being more clued in, still never faced something quite like what Gazans put up with, whether inflicted by Israel, or their own government, Hamas.

 

IMO, most of what Israel does in the West Bank is wrong, but much less so when it comes to the Gaza Strip.

[Morch]

3 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

  

   Violence from West Bank Palestinians surged after the October 7 th terror attack , that is why Israel had to clamp down on their violent acts 

 

Since the current Israeli government was formed, the illegal settlers in the West Bank felt more confident doing their usual stuff, but more so. With ministers either of their people or sympathetic, they felt empowered and so things escalated. The IDF increasing operations in the West Bank was a thing even before 7/10. In fact, one of the cited reasons for the IDF low readiness level, was a re-deployment of troops (days before the attack) - with Gaza Strip border units sent to the West Bank (following a provocation from a settler MK).

 

What you allude to, is an increase in IDF operations carried out in response to intentions by elements (some Hamas, some Fatah, some independent) to carry out attacks. There's more of that, yes. At the same time, there are less troops in the West Bank, less media too, and the settlers are abusing this to further their agenda. There's quite a discord regarding this within the Israeli government and war cabinet.

[ozimoron]

10 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

I accept most of what you describe regarding what Palestinians face in the West Bank. And sure, that's an ongoing situation that was there well before 7/10. So, of course, they'd have legitimate reasons to hate Israel, regardless of the Hamas 7/10 attack.

 

However, the OP (and my post) are about a surge in support for Hamas among West Bank Palestinians. The hate is the same hate - but the political or activist flavor of the month is Hamas. It wasn't quite like that before the war.

 

The point you quote from my post was about it being easy enough to declare/express such support, when not having to face the actual implications entailed. Because harsh as things are in the West Bank, they aren't on par with the reality Gazans face. That goes for both Israel's actions and local governments'.

 

For reference, consider all them students protesting on USA colleges and universities. Forget many of them don't have a clue about anything much, we were all young once. But the thing is, they can protest, they can express political views not aligning with government, women protesting right along men, and so on. Most of that doesn't happen under Hamas rule. So West Bank Palestinians, while obviously being more clued in, still never faced something quite like what Gazans put up with, whether inflicted by Israel, or their own government, Hamas.

 

IMO, most of what Israel does in the West Bank is wrong, but much less so when it comes to the Gaza Strip.

 

Why wouldn't university students have a clue? Those old enough to remember will recall the hundreds of thousands of young people who protested the Vietnam War. Were they wrong because of their age? Or for any reason?

[Morch]

3 hours ago, rickudon said:

Rubbish. The violence was all started by Jewish settlers. 240 Palestinians have been killed in the West bank, how many jews? One, two? Any?

 

No, not all. Many of the IDF operations in the West Bank were the result of intel about planned terrorist attacks.

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

No, not all. Many of the IDF operations in the West Bank were the result of intel about planned terrorist attacks.

 

You got a link for that propaganda?

[Morch]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

 

Why wouldn't university students have a clue? Those old enough to remember will recall the hundreds of thousands of young people who protested the Vietnam War. Were they wrong because of their age? Or for any reason?

 

Young people tend to go for slogans, simplified solutions, a black and white world view. In that sense, and judging from your posts, you are young at heat. As for them not having a clue - seen too many interviews, news reports and actually talked with some - it's somewhere between amusing and horrifying. Then again, I was young too once. Can totally get it. Most people grow out of it, at least some.

[Morch]

Just now, ozimoron said:

 

You got a link for that propaganda?

 

You calling things propaganda means less than nothing.

You don't read these topics, yet demand to be supplied with links, proofs for stuff that was already discussed.

You do not seem to understand how this works.

[ozimoron]

Just now, Morch said:

 

You calling things propaganda means less than nothing.

You don't read these topics, yet demand to be supplied with links, proofs for stuff that was already discussed.

You do not seem to understand how this works.

 

But I can read [the rules]

[ozimoron]

6 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

That the issue was discussed, I'm confident of. Most such discussions, regarding military actions and so on, is accompanied by links. 

I'm not gonna do your reading and searching for you, if that's what you're after.

 

You made the claim and you know the rules. All I want is either of:

 

1. A link

2. An assurance that a link to this precise claim has previously been provided.

 

Failing that, you are in breach of the rules.

Edited December 14, 2023 by ozimoron

[Bkk Brian]

7 hours ago, ozimoron said:

 

You got a link for that propaganda?

You are going back to discussions we had weeks ago and picking out any snippet you can to troll asking for a link. 

 

Separately Monday, the Kan public broadcaster reported that two companies of troops from the IDF’s Commando Brigade, which were deployed to the Gaza border during the Jewish holiday season in September and October, were sent to the West Bank just two days before the October 7 massacre.

The 100 or so soldiers were redeployed to the West Bank’s Huwara, the report said, following a shooting attack there against an Israeli family.

The commando soldiers had been deployed to the Gaza border by the orders of the Operations Directorate, and they were not part of the regular forces securing the border, according to Kan.

A large number of troops had already been operating in the West Bank amid a rise in terror over the past two years.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/more-details-unveiled-of-idf-intel-on-oct-7-plans-consults-hours-before-hamas-attack/

[Rimmer]

Some off topic bickering posts removed

[Morch]

12 hours ago, ozimoron said:

 

You made the claim and you know the rules. All I want is either of:

 

1. A link

2. An assurance that a link to this precise claim has previously been provided.

 

Failing that, you are in breach of the rules.

 

Read the topic, stop trolling.

You're trying for the same thing each and every time.