Thailand to move away from foreign tourism and rely more on home travellers in the latest TAT masterplan

[bob smith]

3 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

See my late edit in previous post, UK tourists represent 2% of all tourists. 

whats your point?

the chinese numbers are down.

 

Nobody cares about Thailand anymore.

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, bob smith said:

whats your point?

the chinese numbers are down.

 

Nobody cares about Thailand anymore.

My point is that UK tourists spending on Walking Street doesn't count for anything as far as the Thai economy or international tourism is concerned. Your observation is anecdotal and myopic at best.

 

But yes, 28 million international tourists is not as many as pre-covid but it's still an extremely respectable number.

[steven100]

2 hours ago, TruthinThailand said:

The answer is simple. SROAS. Works everywhere. Stop Rip Offs And Scams. 

 

hell will freeze over before that happens.

the fact is that travelers are sick of all the Thai overcharging and lousy quality and service on top.

they are going to Vietnam and Japan instead as they feel more welcomed and not so fake. 

 

 

 

Edited December 13, 2023 by steven100

[bob smith]

3 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

My point is that UK tourists spending on Walking Street doesn't count for anything as far as the Thai economy or international tourism is concerned. Your observation is anecdotal and myopic at best.

Western Tourists.

 

It's not just brits that get pissed on walking street.

 

So now you are discounting the entire western tourism market as insignificant in Thailand?

Is there a new level of stupidity that you have attained that I am yet to hear of?

[Mike Lister]

Just now, bob smith said:

Western Tourists.

 

It's not just brits that get pissed on walking street.

 

So now you are discounting the entire western tourism market as insignificant in Thailand?

Is there a new level of stupidity that you have attained that I am yet to hear of?

Back on my list you go, goodbye.

[Walker88]

54 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

You don't know any more than I do, which segment of the Thai population is most over indebted but we can guess. Is it the rural poor or is it the middle classes that have jobs and assets, hmmm, tricky that one! 

 

Here's the breakdown on that Consumer debt, note that which is not collateralized:

 

https://app.bot.or.th/BTWS_STAT/statistics/BOTWEBSTAT.aspx?reportID=891&language=ENG

I'm going to guess that the Household Debt figure is spread pretty evenly over all Thai society, save for the truly hi-so types.

 

I don't think it's the rural poor driving all of those Mercs, BMWs and Audis. Repossession numbers are at record levels.

[Wrwest]

2 hours ago, Captor said:

Just fix the air pollution and the tourists will come back. Why do tourists want to travel with family to a country with dangerous air?

 

Look like TAT don't want see the elephant in the room

While I agree in recognizing a problem ... "just fix the air pollution"? As if a Thai policy alone can make it all go away?

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, Walker88 said:

I'm going to guess that the Household Debt figure is spread pretty evenly over all Thai society, save for the truly hi-so types.

 

I don't think it's the rural poor driving all of those Mercs, BMWs and Audis. Repossession numbers are at record levels.

Once again, cars and real estate are collateralized loans, personal lending is unsecured. How many people in Western countries don't borrow to buy a car or a house, that level of lending is typical middle class and is much less of an issue than lending to the impoverished poor.

 

And whilst you may guess that lending is spread evenly, I guess you would be quite wrong, as far unsecured lending is concerned.

[ChipButty]

2 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

I'm going to guess that the Household Debt figure is spread pretty evenly over all Thai society, save for the truly hi-so types.

 

I don't think it's the rural poor driving all of those Mercs, BMWs and Audis. Repossession numbers are at record levels.

A friend of ours works for one of the biggest car finance companies here in Thailand and she says business is well down as they are declining so many applicants, and staff are being laid off, 

[LoudHailer]

High end tourism is booming globally. The world’s travelling population is very much “on the move.”  Thailand is simply too hard and too expensive to get to and from with a limited number of seats at scalper’s prices. TG too is wallowing in incompetence and is only flying the long haul, more profitable, international routes. Short haul routes would fill hotels and resorts fast. 

[wensiensheng]

And if locals don’t arrive, the focus will move to aliens and unicorns.

[sungod]

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

Does Indonesia still obligate Visa on arrival for Wester tourists like UK and Oz though?

 

Got one in Bali about a year ago.

[sandyf]

4 hours ago, 2baht said:

Was it not foreign tourism that signaled a shift away from Thailand? 

Everyone wants to blame the Thais.

Couldn't possibly be the huge jump in airfares or the cost of living crisis that has deterred western tourists.

Hotel accommodation in Pattaya is at a much higher occupancy than I would have expected under the circumstances. If I remember right about 6 weeks ago both Agoda and Booking .com were saying about 87%.

Historically domestic tourism has been about 8% and foreign about 12% of GDP, shouldn't be too difficult to reverse the figures.

[kinyara]

A quote from the lady in charge in the article, " Foreign tourism will become 27% of Thailand's GDP by 2027, and the country must move to become less dependent on foreign tourism from now on ".  

 

Given, that as I understand it, foreign tourism in recent years has hovered around 10-12% of GDP,  and in light of the difficult issues she has highlighted they are currently facing, I find that expectation utterly bizarre. It may be she got her figures mixed up but with some of the other things I've read from her so far, notably the PR disaster re Chinese police assisting tourists, I'm beginning to think she is out of her depth. " She hails from a family with ties to public service, her father being the former Permanent Secretary of the Ministry of Commerce, make of that what you will. 

[Karma80]

Turning to a domestic tourism strategy will fail as well. Look at the sheer numbers of Thais going overseas to Japan.

When covid was here, boom times because Thai's had nowhere to go. Now the flights are leaving. So are Thais.

[Dcheech]

6 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Couldn't possibly be the huge jump in airfares or the cost of living crisis that has deterred western tourists.

 

I seriously doubt this is what TAT is having a masterplan meltdown about. Thailand hitched their donkey cart to the mighty Celestial Engine. Only to have that mighty engine start chugging & wheezing, with serious and potentially long term economic problems. In a bad economy you change your travel plans & those coveted celestial tourists dry up. Thailand is up against it now, however this is last thing TAT or Thailand can publicly admit. Blaming it on naughty influencers or negative press in China seems the only option permitted. 

Now lets crank up local tourism. 

[Walker88]

22 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Once again, cars and real estate are collateralized loans, personal lending is unsecured. How many people in Western countries don't borrow to buy a car or a house, that level of lending is typical middle class and is much less of an issue than lending to the impoverished poor.

 

And whilst you may guess that lending is spread evenly, I guess you would be quite wrong, as far unsecured lending is concerned.

I don't have any answer to how the Household Debt is spread across levels of society, but two things lead me to believe the high debt officially reported is Middle Class, not rural poor. Rural poor are more likely (in my experience chatting with Thais) to use loan sharks, as banks are not wont to lend to rural poor. The second thing is the record number of car repossessions, which says many who are able to get traditional financing are still strapped.

 

The staff in my company are from 'rural poor' families, and I know from talking to them, their family's debts are loan shark, not bank-related. Their families survive via transfers from their offspring working in Bangkok. My staffers even put their excess cash into "loan pools" that lend at usurious rates and promise investors 10%+ per month. That's all outside the official numbers, but the booming business suggests to me many people are strapped and not about to take a weekend trip to Maesai.

 

 

[wealthychef]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

hapanee Kiatpaiboon, faces a challenging role as she guides the country’s tourism industry in the aftermath of the pandemic era

 

Might have made it easier if you hadn't destroyed it with unscientific policies such as lockdowns and quarantines!  

[Walker88]

26 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Historically domestic tourism has been about 8% and foreign about 12% of GDP, shouldn't be too difficult to reverse the figures.

Really? How? I doubt TAT knows, so they would likely welcome your input on How To.

 

Let's say that domestic tourist isn't among the cash strapped, high Household Debt demographic, but is true Thai Middle Class. What is Thai Middle Class income relative to a European, American, Japanese, etc.? A reversal will make up for the loss of those with much higher average income?

 

Is Phitsanulok more of a draw for a vacationing Middle Class Thai than Vietnam, KL or Hong Kong?

[kinyara]

2 hours ago, Jack West Jr said:

Another thing is that Thailand hasn't been "amazing" for at least a decade . Wherever you look you see discarded filth , in some places you have to step round it and pretty soon you'll have to wade through it .Every year it gets worse .  People go on holiday to enjoy pristine settings , not spend time in a huge rubbish tip . 

If they don't clean up their act tourists will start staying away in droves . Moreover, expats will consider other countries to settle in . 

 

I haven't been to other tourists towns/cities recently but I think that's a very fair reflection of the state of the infrastructure in Pattaya these days. Walking around the daily obstacle course of appalling pavements or stuck in a baht bus on the central circuit as yet more holes are dug up and filled in for no practical benefit always designed for maximum high season inconvenience, I question the level of tourism they deserve for the state of the public services they provide.

[Caldera]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

Facing a 40% decline overall in revenues from 2019, rejection from Chinese tourists and lack of former enthusiasm from Western travellers, Thailand’s tourism industry seeks a new direction.

 

Maybe Western travelers would have shown more "enthusiasm" if something had been done for them - specifically for those who are willing and able to stay longer.

 

Russians currently get 90-day visa exempt entries. The same was considered for Western travelers, but that proposal didn't seem to get anywhere. With the shoddy eVisa system in place, it remains a hassle.

[Snig27]

International media has been full of poisonous air stories for a couple of years now, and it seems unlikely this half-baked government, controlled by forces we can't discuss and the major corporations that define their 'policies' will do much about it. In most places on planet Earth, it would be a national disaster, but here, they form a committee and pass the odd law nobody enforces while the appointed PM hangs out in Tokyo and California. Who, in their right mind, would bring their loved ones to Thailand? 

Edited December 13, 2023 by Snig27

[Ironmike]

With the influx of drunken Russians mowing down Americans on motorbikes and paying off the police in Chalong and the movies telling the Chinks there not safe along with a criminal X PM that seems to be running this country again from behind bars,,Ohsorry the local hospital and the losses in the economic world it seems that Thailand is on the brink of failure but not everything is bad just think now the local police can shake down other thais for their bribe money on the side of the road. Looking great. What's all the fuss about?? 

[Sydebolle]

Ensure double pricing for the local tourists as well and you will see those staying away as well. 

[thaibeachlovers]

Does anyone actually believe that tat?

The higher end places probably rely on foreign tourists, as locals are unlikely to be able to afford such, except hisos and are they interested in ruined beaches?

[JonnyF]

In my workplace most of the well paid Thais holiday abroad. Europe, Japan, S.Korea etc.

 

They all come back amazed at how clean the air is, how litter free the beaches are, how efficient public transport is, how well regulated the taxis are etc.

 

It's the lower paid Thais who holiday in Thailand and they often go 6 people in a pickup truck to stay with relatives in Issan.

[thaibeachlovers]

12 minutes ago, Snig27 said:

Who, in their right mind, would bring their loved ones to Thailand? 

I never wanted anyone to bring their "loved ones" to Thailand, as they usually went to Pattaya and are ruining the place. They should all be required to go to Phuket which is already ruined a long time ago.

[stix40]

Falang are not walking atm's anymore !

People are struggling with debt , high cost of living , credit card debt , high price of air fares etc  inflation taking away the opportunity to go on holiday.

Luxury's are the first things to be binned.

Plus Thailand needs to clean up it's act .

Everywhere looks scruffy

Rubbish lying at the side of the road , used to be much cleaner than this .

Terrible air quality,bad press etc.

People having staycations

Now.

Plus with the baht being constantly pumped up , needs to be way lower to attract their major income which is tourism.

Happy Christmas 🎄

 

Edited December 13, 2023 by stix40

[Lucky Bones]

3 hours ago, 2baht said:

More Chinese are travelling to Australia while Australians are travelling to Bali and Japan! 

The Chinese travelling to Oz are mainly students. Aussies have traditionally made Bali their short haul cheap getaway.🙃🙃

[AsiaCheese]

3 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Bar owners too are saying that although claiming it is 'picking up'......Plenty of traffic on the streets though, and out on major roads around town. 

 

Plenty of BKK number plates in Pattaya every weekend, and triple that on long weekends, despite the well-planned road constructions during high season that turn already clogged traffic into a nightmare.