Reichsbürger: German far-right extremists charged with planning violent coup

[CharlieH]

 

German prosecutors have charged 27 suspected far-right extremists with planning a violent coup.

The suspects are accused of membership of the fringe Reichsbürger - or Citizens of the Reich - movement.

"The members of the group strongly rejected state institutions and the free democratic constitutional order," according to the indictment.

They are mostly associates of Heinrich XIII Prince Reuss, a Reichsbürger figurehead from an aristocratic family.

Prosecutors have charged the 27 people with planning to overthrow Germany's democratic political system.

Concrete preparations were made for a coup beginning in summer 2021.

 

The plan was to seize power by invading the Bundestag, Germany's parliament, with a small group of armed personnel. The assault would be launched after receiving a signal, such as the death of Queen Elizabeth II.

• Inside the self-proclaimed Kingdom of Germany

The alleged plotters had already determined how their new state would function after the coup.

Prince Reuss was planned to be head of state. On taking office, he would negotiate a peace treaty with the Allied powers which won World War II. Prince Reuss tried to meet representatives of the Russian government to gain support for the coup, according to prosecutors.

Birgit Malsack-Winkemann, then a member of the Bundestag for the far-right Alternative for Germany party, would have been made justice minister. Prosecutors said she granted access to parliamentary buildings to other co-conspirators.

 

FULL STORY

 

[Thingamabob]

Such groups are gaining support all over the West in response to increasing muslim influence. A lot of trouble brewing I fear.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Thingamabob
Spelling error

[Bday Prang]

Whenever I see the words "far right extremist" nowadays, I automatically assume it just means either a patriot, or somebody not "woke"  The word has even less gravitas when it is used by the "Uber woke"   BBC   

I must admit on this occasion they do appear a little more to the right than most that have been labelled as such,   But when people see their cultures being slowly but surely destroyed by uncontrolled immigration , and many aspects of  their traditional way of life threatened, for fear of upsetting muslim sensitivities , and the elected governments not only give the impression that they could not care less , but are actually pro active enablers of this disgrace then what else are we to expect.  I predict a lot more of this kind of thing, as the democratic system is seen by many to be failing 

[radiochaser]

57 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

Whenever I see the words "far right extremist" nowadays, I automatically assume it just means either a patriot, or somebody not "woke"  The word has even less gravitas when it is used by the "Uber woke"   BBC   

I must admit on this occasion they do appear a little more to the right than most that have been labelled as such,   But when people see their cultures being slowly but surely destroyed by uncontrolled immigration , and many aspects of  their traditional way of life threatened, for fear of upsetting muslim sensitivities , and the elected governments not only give the impression that they could not care less , but are actually pro active enablers of this disgrace then what else are we to expect.  I predict a lot more of this kind of thing, as the democratic system is seen by many to be failing 

Yet, there is little to no talk about the "far left extremists" that is plaguing the western countries.   

I read and hear talk about the "far right extremist" and their danger to society, yet, where are the large riots by them in the news, like the other side?  Where have the "far right extremists" in the western countries taken over parts of cities and declared a new country without police?  

[Bday Prang]

27 minutes ago, radiochaser said:

Yet, there is little to no talk about the "far left extremists" that is plaguing the western countries.   

I read and hear talk about the "far right extremist" and their danger to society, yet, where are the large riots by them in the news, like the other side?  Where have the "far right extremists" in the western countries taken over parts of cities and declared a new country without police?  

          Spot on , the phrase "far right" is completely misunderstood by  the modern day wokies , its use as an insult is actually quite disrespectful to those who genuinely have suffered at the hands of real fascists.

          It is used not only as a pathetic well worn  insult aimed at anybody they disagree with, but also as a kind of "stopping " word intended to end any meaningful discussion of a subject they feel uncomfortable with. Same as "denier " or words ending in "phobe" by attempting to discredit the person who's views they are attacking

          There is a simple reason why we don't hear words like "far left"  very much , and one only has to realise the political leanings of the luvvies working in mainstream media to know why

           I used to be fearful for the future, but I am becoming  cautiously optimistic, as the silent majority is slowly waking up, and  there are more and more signs of a backlash

 

Edited December 13, 2023 by Bday Prang

[Caldera]

That "Prince" Reuss wrote a pretty embarrassing letter to Putin, he's probably more senile than anything else. So he should be sent off to a retirement home with a steady supply of diapers. Some of his followers might be a little bit more dangerous though.

[Red Forever]

The Little Englanders and ding a ling MAGAs love this kinda stuff claiming that these members of the "master race" speak for the silent majority.

No! They speak for an ageing and dwindling minority who are stuck in a 50s time warp. As these right wing xenophobes die off youngsters come along with different value sets.

Woke n proud!

 

[Bday Prang]

3 hours ago, Red Forever said:

The Little Englanders and ding a ling MAGAs love this kinda stuff claiming that these members of the "master race" speak for the silent majority.

No! They speak for an ageing and dwindling minority who are stuck in a 50s time warp. As these right wing xenophobes die off youngsters come along with different value sets.

Woke n proud!

 

           I don't see anybody claiming that nutters like these speak for anybody other than themselves, and they certainly don't represent any silent majority. But their existence is  an inevitable reaction to the left wing propaganda forced down people's throats by mainstream media on a daily basis. and drilled into the brains of the young by  dysfunctional universities

          Good luck in your new world, populated and administered by TikTok influencers, Climate change fanatics, Rainbow warriors, Minor attracted people , Muslim sympathisers, Sharia law,, etc etc

          Where do you think the money is going to come from to fund the welfare benefits and health care system that will be required to support all that

           Once the police have been defunded and any military defence force has been long since been done away with, who will defend you from what will be the ever present threats, originating not only from "un-woke" countries like China, with world domination aspirations, but also from some of those that will be living amongst you.

          You won't last long if you are relying on an army of human rights lawyers and diversity consultants 

           Neither extreme of left or right is capable of providing us with any sort of life that compares favourably to that which has existed in the past.  but the presence of these nutters is a necessary evil, if only  to balance the rhetoric coming from the seldom mentioned extreme left

 

 

[pacovl46]

The fact alone that 27 of those silly fools think they can overthrow an entire government by invading the Bundestag building just goes to show how delusional they are! The police force in Berlin alone has 18500 active cops and that's exlcuding the ones that have office jobs. There's absolutely no way those 27 cretinous idiots would've succeded! 

[placeholder]

6 hours ago, Bday Prang said:

           I don't see anybody claiming that nutters like these speak for anybody other than themselves, and they certainly don't represent any silent majority. But their existence is  an inevitable reaction to the left wing propaganda forced down people's throats by mainstream media on a daily basis. and drilled into the brains of the young by  dysfunctional universities

          Good luck in your new world, populated and administered by TikTok influencers, Climate change fanatics, Rainbow warriors, Minor attracted people , Muslim sympathisers, Sharia law,, etc etc

          Where do you think the money is going to come from to fund the welfare benefits and health care system that will be required to support all that

           Once the police have been defunded and any military defence force has been long since been done away with, who will defend you from what will be the ever present threats, originating not only from "un-woke" countries like China, with world domination aspirations, but also from some of those that will be living amongst you.

          You won't last long if you are relying on an army of human rights lawyers and diversity consultants 

           Neither extreme of left or right is capable of providing us with any sort of life that compares favourably to that which has existed in the past.  but the presence of these nutters is a necessary evil, if only  to balance the rhetoric coming from the seldom mentioned extreme left

 

 

So many cliches in so little space.

[morrobay]

Fascism isn't all bad: Could be away to get something done with the sorry mess created by these liberal saps in government. Left wing anarchy with stores being raided and looted, and no local enforcement. Here calling in the military is the correct intervention. Then the non borders allowing gangs, terrorists,while overloading social/medical services. Take the stalemate in the US for example. The only way a real WALL could be accomplished to get around these progressive saps blocking it would be for the president to declare the national emergency it is , and order the Army Corps of Engineers to build it from the Pacific to the Gulf. Of course it would be more affordable if the current admin would stop sending Billions and counting to that lost cause in Ukrainian that mostly benefits the military industrial complex from that not such a winding road from Afghanistan and Iraq 

 

[JayClay]

2 hours ago, morrobay said:

Fascism isn't all bad: Could be away to get something done with the sorry mess created by these liberal saps in government. Left wing anarchy with stores being raided and looted, and no local enforcement. Here calling in the military is the correct intervention. Then the non borders allowing gangs, terrorists,while overloading social/medical services. Take the stalemate in the US for example. The only way a real WALL could be accomplished to get around these progressive saps blocking it would be for the president to declare the national emergency it is , and order the Army Corps of Engineers to build it from the Pacific to the Gulf. Of course it would be more affordable if the current admin would stop sending Billions and counting to that lost cause in Ukrainian that mostly benefits the military industrial complex from that not such a winding road from Afghanistan and Iraq 

 

 

And retoric like this, ladies and gentlemen, is essentially how WW2 started.

 

What did we learn? 🙁

[morrobay]

4 hours ago, JayClay said:

 

And retoric like this, ladies and gentlemen, is essentially how WW2 started.

 

What did we learn? 🙁

Here is the local problem, do I really have to show you examples of the Southern border disaster. And this waste of billions going down this rat hole in Ukraine. Hopefully Trump/DeSantis will take care of this mess.

 

[placeholder]

11 hours ago, morrobay said:

Fascism isn't all bad: Could be away to get something done with the sorry mess created by these liberal saps in government. Left wing anarchy with stores being raided and looted, and no local enforcement. Here calling in the military is the correct intervention. Then the non borders allowing gangs, terrorists,while overloading social/medical services. Take the stalemate in the US for example. The only way a real WALL could be accomplished to get around these progressive saps blocking it would be for the president to declare the national emergency it is , and order the Army Corps of Engineers to build it from the Pacific to the Gulf. Of course it would be more affordable if the current admin would stop sending Billions and counting to that lost cause in Ukrainian that mostly benefits the military industrial complex from that not such a winding road from Afghanistan and Iraq 

 

Thanks for the rant.

[ozimoron]

If the far right extremists who support fascism had any faith in its popularity they would push for fair and open elections instead. They know they are the vocal minority.

[RayC]

On 12/17/2023 at 8:06 AM, morrobay said:

Fascism isn't all bad: Could be away to get something done with the sorry mess created by these liberal saps in government. Left wing anarchy with stores being raided and looted, and no local enforcement. Here calling in the military is the correct intervention. Then the non borders allowing gangs, terrorists,while overloading social/medical services. Take the stalemate in the US for example. The only way a real WALL could be accomplished to get around these progressive saps blocking it would be for the president to declare the national emergency it is , and order the Army Corps of Engineers to build it from the Pacific to the Gulf. Of course it would be more affordable if the current admin would stop sending Billions and counting to that lost cause in Ukrainian that mostly benefits the military industrial complex from that not such a winding road from Afghanistan and Iraq 

 

 

"Fascism isn't all bad".

 

I guess that is true. Apparently Hitler was a vegetarian and an animal lover, and some of those Nazi uniforms did look very smart, so "all bad", no.

 

The big "But ....." is when you look at Fascism as a political ideology and/or system of government. Then it is all bad and I cannot even try to understand how anyone could think otherwise.

[morrobay]

1 hour ago, RayC said:

 

"Fascism isn't all bad".

 

I guess that is true. Apparently Hitler was a vegetarian and an animal lover, and some of those Nazi uniforms did look very smart, so "all bad", no.

 

The big "But ....." is when you look at Fascism as a political ideology and/or system of government. Then it is all bad and I cannot even try to understand how anyone could think otherwise.

Ok let's call it authoritarian like Singapore. When year after year all this talking until the cows come home regarding the Southern border disaster, the increasing city crime , the wasted billions and lives in Iraq Afghanistan and now Ukraine.  Seems it is high time for another model. That would be an authoritarian government that would have selective elements of fascism by construction 

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, RayC said:

 

"Fascism isn't all bad".

 

I guess that is true. Apparently Hitler was a vegetarian and an animal lover, and some of those Nazi uniforms did look very smart, so "all bad", no.

 

The big "But ....." is when you look at Fascism as a political ideology and/or system of government. Then it is all bad and I cannot even try to understand how anyone could think otherwise.

Doubt there would be any Muslim problems in Europe if the Nazis had won WW2. Suspect feminism and woke wouldn't have happened either.

 

Just saying ......

 

 

[radiochaser]

On 12/13/2023 at 9:43 AM, Bday Prang said:

          Spot on , the phrase "far right" is completely misunderstood by  the modern day wokies , its use as an insult is actually quite disrespectful to those who genuinely have suffered at the hands of real fascists.

          It is used not only as a pathetic well worn  insult aimed at anybody they disagree with, but also as a kind of "stopping " word intended to end any meaningful discussion of a subject they feel uncomfortable with. Same as "denier " or words ending in "phobe" by attempting to discredit the person who's views they are attacking

          There is a simple reason why we don't hear words like "far left"  very much , and one only has to realise the political leanings of the luvvies working in mainstream media to know why

           I used to be fearful for the future, but I am becoming  cautiously optimistic, as the silent majority is slowly waking up, and  there are more and more signs of a backlash

 

Sort of like, you are a racist!   When you disagree with the leftist ideology that was taught to them in college or don't do whatever they command you to do, then you are also called a racist! 

[ozimoron]

8 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Doubt there would be any Muslim problems in Europe if the Nazis had won WW2. Suspect feminism and woke wouldn't have happened either.

 

Just saying ......

 

Or Jews. Or was that another positive?

 

[radiochaser]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

 

Or Jews. Or was that another positive?

 

If you were are are a real nazi, then yes.   
Which brings up the question, why is it that so many on the left, use nazi tactics to further their cause?

[radiochaser]

On 12/17/2023 at 10:17 AM, ozimoron said:

If the far right extremists who support fascism had any faith in its popularity they would push for fair and open elections instead. They know they are the vocal minority.

Would a fair and open election include allowing people who are, by law, not supposed to be voting to vote in an election?

Would a fair and open election allow citizens of a state (in the U.S. of A.) vote in a manner that violates both the states constitution and state laws that primarily benefits the electorate of the political party allowing the violation of the state constitution and state law?

[ozimoron]

12 minutes ago, radiochaser said:

If you were are are a real nazi, then yes.   
Which brings up the question, why is it that so many on the left, use nazi tactics to further their cause?

 

Very loaded. What nazi like tactics are the left using pray tell? 

[ozimoron]

4 minutes ago, radiochaser said:

Would a fair and open election include allowing people who are, by law, not supposed to be voting to vote in an election?

Would a fair and open election allow citizens of a state (in the U.S. of A.) vote in a manner that violates both the states constitution and state laws that primarily benefits the electorate of the political party allowing the violation of the state constitution and state law?

 

The numbers that do are so small that they don't influence the outcome of an election. Most election fraud is perpetrated by the right wing.

[radiochaser]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

 

The numbers that do are so small that they don't influence the outcome of an election. Most election fraud is perpetrated by the right wing.

You are wrong about that.   It happened in Pennsylvania and it swayed a presidential election.

[radiochaser]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

 

The numbers that do are so small that they don't influence the outcome of an election. Most election fraud is perpetrated by the right wing.

Again, you are wrong about that.   The democrat party in the state of Pennsylvania violated both the constitutional requirements for voting by mail and as you may be able to guess, the democrat party is not the part of the right wing!

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, radiochaser said:

You are wrong about that.   It happened in Pennsylvania and it swayed a presidential election.

 

Conspiracy theories like this are how fascists justify fascism. Your claims are false.

[radiochaser]

18 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Conspiracy theories like this are how fascists justify fascism. Your claims are false.

Are you a citizen of the United States?  I am.
Are you a citizen of the state of Pennsylvania?  I am.
If both, have you ever had to comply with the Pennsylvania laws regarding how to vote by mail, known as "Absentee Voting",   I have! 
 

At the time of the last presidential election, it was required by both the the Pennsylvania state constitution and by state law, that you had to request advance permission to vote by mail.  In that request, you had to provide proof that you were the person that was requesting permission for Absentee Voting. 

I was required to provide my name, address, and drivers license number in that request.  I also had to provide a "legitimate" reason acceptable by law, that I would be unable to vote, in person, at my local polling place.   The state law also stipulated that if I were able to vote in person, I had to do so, even though I had already sent in my "Absentee Vote".   

Then when I, as required by law, went to vote at my local polling place, I had to advise the person working at the polls, that I had already voted by absentee ballot, and that the absentee vote made under Pennsylvania's state laws for absentee voting, needed to be invalidated and that only my vote at the polling place should be my legal vote.

So, tell me,  ozimoron, how is my following the Pennsylvania state constitution and Pennsylvania State voting laws, justifying facism?
 

Tell me how this is a conspiracy theory?
 

Also tell my why you are making comments that are bordering on slander, against me, by implying I am a fascist?

[ozimoron]

5 minutes ago, radiochaser said:

Are you a citizen of the United States?  I am.
Are you a citizen of the state of Pennsylvania?  I am.
If both, have you ever had to comply with the Pennsylvania laws regarding how to vote by mail, known ad "Absentee Voting",   I have! 
 

At the time of the last presidential election, it was required by both the the Pennsylvania state constitution and by state law, that you had to request advance permission to vote by mail.  In that request, you had to provide proof that you were the person that was requesting permission for Absentee Voting. 

I was required to provide my name, address, and drivers license number in that request.  I also had to provide a "legitimate" reason acceptable by law, that I would be unable to vote, in person, at my local polling place.   The state law also stipulated that if I were able to vote in person, I had to do so, even though I had already sent in my "Absentee Vote".   

Then when I, as required by law, went to vote at my local polling place, I had to advise the person working at the polls, that I had already voted by absentee ballot, and that the absentee vote made under Pennsylvania's state laws for absentee voting, needed to be invalidated and that only my vote at the polling place should be my legal vote.

So, tell me,  ozimoron, how is my following the Pennsylvania state constitution and Pennsylvania State voting laws, justifying facism?
 

Tell me how this is a conspiracy theory?
 

Also tell my why you are making comments that are bordering slander, against me, by implying I am a fascist?

 

I never accused you of being a fascist.

 

Pennsylvania Supreme Court did not rule 2020 election was ‘rigged’

 

https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-pennsylvania-supreme-court-election-rigged-315648072461

 

Produce your link to evidence that the PA vote was rigged.

[radiochaser]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

 

I never accused you of being a fascist.

 

Pennsylvania Supreme Court did not rule 2020 election was ‘rigged’

 

https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-pennsylvania-supreme-court-election-rigged-315648072461

 

Are you not from Australia?   If so, you have never been required to follow Pennsylvania voting laws as I have for the about 30 years I have been here, much of which time, during an election of local and national elections, there was the possibility that I would not be able to vote at my polling place.  

Prior to each election I accessed the Pennsylvania government website with laws regarding legal voting and even spoke to the registrar of voters office about the legalities of voting.  I know what the voting laws were, before the last presidential election.   The linked article is misleading and in my personal opinion, deliberately so!  Partly by conflating one issue with another issue.

I was a federal agent.  First year, I was trained in understanding laws applicable internationally and domestically (U.S. government laws).  At the time of the 2020 election, the democrat politicians in charge of the Pennsylvania government violated voting laws as they were written at the time.  The 2022 elections were after the fact and laws were different! 
 

My understanding of laws and how they are applied to individual people and business were important when individual people or a business was subject to fines of hundreds to tens of thousands of dollars.   As well as when people were incarcerated in federal prisons between 1 and 7 years.  My investigations and testimony was upheld by federal courts of laws.   

You implied I was a facist by your comments.  "Conspiracy theories like this are how fascists justify fascism. Your claims are false."

"Opposed to anarchism, democracy, pluralism, liberalism, socialism, and Marxism, fascism is placed on the far-right wing within the traditional left–right spectrum."
 

"CONSPIRACY THEORIES AND RIGHT-WING EXTREMISM 4 Conspiracy theories are morality tales based on archetypal narratives about right versus wrong, good versus evil. Providing “black and white” world views, they foster societal divisions between in-groups and out-groups by exacerbating intolerance against “the other” and delegitimising different voices as being part of the conspiracy. Extremist groups use conspiracy theories as a tool for recruitment and to advance their radical agendas exploiting uncertainties, fears, socioeconomic issues and mental health disorders amongst vulnerable people. In recent years, right-wing extremism has proven to be active and efficient in the dissemination of conspiracy theories aimed at targeting individuals or groups blamed to be responsible for the evil in society. Shielding the audience from the risk of being drawn into the conspiratorial labyrinth of these groups is crucial to push back the ability of conspiracy theorists in mobilising extremist action and violence."

You conflated my comments about the illegal mail in voting during the 2020 presidential election with facists by making the claim about my comments about illegal voting were false! 

My comments about voting were based on the voting laws that were in place in Pennsylvania during the 2020 election!  You implied that my comments were part of a facist conspiracy.  Ergo, you implied I am a facist, and that is "a published false statement that is damaging to a person's reputation; a written defamation."  
 

 

Post script:   I never made a claim of any election being rigged.   Only that in Pennsylvania, democrat politicians violated the voting laws that were in effect at the time of the 2020 election.